Strongest evidence yet against spanking

[freckles and boo]

This guy gets kissed up to more than anyone I've ever seen...

And THIS we agree on.

 

[Scurvy]

Teaching children that the way to solve a problem is through violence - how can that be a good thing?

There are studies that kids who are not spanked have a higher IQ and just last year there was a study that said spanking kids increases risk of sexual problems as adults.

Who could be pro-spanking?

There's a loaded question. Who could possibly be for their kids having a lower IQ and sexual problems? Certainly not good parents.

Of course in one second of Googling I found a study that showed that kids who were spanked performed better than those who weren’t "in a whole series of categories, including school grades, an optimistic outlook on life, the willingness to perform volunteer work, and the ambition to attend college". It also says "And they performed no worse than those who weren’t spanked in areas like early sexual activity, getting into fights, and becoming depressed."

What parent wouldn't want their child to get better grades, have an optimistic outlook, be willing to perform volunteer work and have ambition to attend college? Certainly all good parents want those things for their children. Using your logic, who could be against spanking?

You can find a study that says just about anything. The fact remains that all parents have to find the method of discipline that works best for their own children. Spanking is legal and some parents find that it works with their kids. There's nothing wrong with that, just as there is nothing wrong with using other methods of discipline if they work better for your child.

 

[chicagodisneyfan]

I'm not saying anything necessarily about how YOU discipline, and yes we will agree to disagree...all I'm saying is that if you choose to discipline your kids based solely on studies you may not be receiving accurate information. It's all based on whether you believe everything you read or not I guess. More than likely you already believe what the study shows and you're using this "fact/statistic" to prove your belief.

Nah, I don't believe everything I read. In general I look at the methodology of the study, who funded it, and actually read it.

Chosing not to hit a person who is smaller than me - I did not need a study to tell me that is wrong. Just a moral compass.

 

[chicagodisneyfan]

There's a loaded question. Who could possibly be for their kids having a lower IQ and sexual problems? Certainly not good parents.

You can find a study that says just about anything. The fact remains that all parents have to find the method of discipline that works best for their own children. Spanking is legal and some parents find that it works with their kids. There's nothing wrong with that, just as there is nothing wrong with using other methods os discipline if they work better for your child.

Taking all other arguments/studies out of the equation it comes down to:
Is it okay to ever hit a child?

If a stranger/teacher/priest spanked your child - most people would be running for the police. If spanking is so great - how come you will not allow others to do it if your child misbehaves?

Gosh, that would make shopping such a better experience.

 

[Tinkermommy]

There are studies that kids who are not spanked have a higher IQ and just last year there was a study that said spanking kids increases risk of sexual problems as adults.

Studies show breastfed children have higher IQs. So I breastfed my daughter (for 18 months) and I have spanked her as well (about 5 times in her life). Shouldn't this even out?

But seriously the title of this threat is "Strongest evidence yet . . ." In reading the article (I haven't read the actual study), the evidence is not that strong. "those who were spanked more frequently at age 3 were more likely to be aggressive by age 5." The study stopped at age 5 not 55 to see if this type of behavior continued into adulthood.

If you read a lot of research you can usually tell what the scientists/researchers agenda was. They typically do research to prove their hypothesis, not to test it.

Also, many of the behaviors cited, "to be defiant, demand immediate satisfaction of their wants and needs, get frustrated easily, have temper tantrums and lash out physically against others" are very subjective (except the lash out physically) and usually scored by the parents. So one's parents idea of "defiant" may not be another persons. This by the way does not apply to my DD at all.

As an aside, I was spanked infrequently when I was young. I used to ask to get spanked because my parents didn't spank me very hard and then my punishment was over. If I had to to do time out, I was missing time with my friends! So that is why my Mom made me sit on the stairs, because she knew I hated that worse!

 

[princessmom29]

Taking all other arguments/studies out of the equation it comes down to:
Is it okay to ever hit a child?

If a stranger/teacher/priest spanked your child - most people would be running for the police. If spanking is so great - how come you will not allow others to do it if your child misbehaves?

Gosh, that would make shopping such a better experience.

Most people would object to a stranger disciplining their child in amy form. Discipline, whatever from it takes, is the responsibility of the aprent. Teachers can and do hand out punishments in the classroom, but the day to day discipline of the child should fall to the parent, and it is ultimately up to the parent as to what form that discipline takes. Spanking works for some, time out works for others, ect. every child is different and no one form of discipline is right for every child. Bottom line: the child's parent gets to decide what is best.

 

[Scurvy]

If a stranger/teacher/priest spanked your child - most people would be running for the police. If spanking is so great - how come you will not allow others to do it if your child misbehaves?

Gosh, that would make shopping such a better experience.

I think it makes perfect sense that many parents who spank might not want other people spanking their kids. The force used to spank is subjective. Parents know exactly how much force they are using, but don't know how other people might choose to spank. They might also reserve spanking for only specific situations, whereas others might use it as their "go to" punishment. I can understand why parents would want to have direct control of a punishment like that even if they themselves feel comfortable using that form of disclipline on their kids.

I'm confused by the shopping comment. Do you mean you think shopping would be better if strangers were disciplining each other's kids? What a bizarre statement!

 

[disneyaddicted]

I was raised old school, I got spanked, smacked, slapped, strapped. I grew up just fine. Never been arrested, never been violent, don't have any sexual problems. The only thing that came from my Mom spanking me was I had no respect for how my Mom handled situations. Sometimes my punsihment did not fit the crime. And I hated my mom for years. I didn't want my kids to ever feel about me the way I felt about my Mom so I didn't spank. I found others ways to discipline and it has worked out pretty good.

BTW, my mom and I are good friends now, she has admitted to being too hard on me when I was a child, but she was raising me the way her mother raised her.

 

[FireDancer]

Chosing not to hit a person who is smaller than me - I did not need a study to tell me that is wrong.

It makes more sense then hitting someone bigger then you

 

[jodifla]

It makes more sense then hitting someone bigger then you

Which begs the question...what happens when your child is bigger than you? Is it OK for him to hit the parents now, and just make it a slugfest?

 

[jodifla]

I was raised old school, I got spanked, smacked, slapped, strapped. I grew up just fine. Never been arrested, never been violent, don't have any sexual problems. The only thing that came from my Mom spanking me was I had no respect for how my Mom handled situations. Sometimes my punsihment did not fit the crime. And I hated my mom for years. I didn't want my kids to ever feel about me the way I felt about my Mom so I didn't spank. I found others ways to discipline and it has worked out pretty good.

BTW, my mom and I are good friends now, she has admitted to being too hard on me when I was a child, but she was raising me the way her mother raised her.

We grew up in the same era. And there are many of us trying to break that cycle!

The story on spanking and sexual issues quotes an expert as saying it depends on how a child processes the spanking. And the problem is, as a parent, you may not realize how the child is processing the spanking.

 

[Scurvy]

Which begs the question...what happens when your child is bigger than you? Is it OK for him to hit the parents now, and just make it a slugfest?

Probably, when the kids hit the age when they are responsible for raising/disciplining their parents. What age is that again?

 

[AshleyW]

I really can't believe the logic and explanations in some of these responses. And really, who cares about all these stupid studies? Here's another study for you, just to throw it in the pot:

Young children who are spanked by their parents grow up to be happier and more successful than those who have never been hit, research claims. It found that children who are spanked before the age of six perform better at school when they are teenagers. They are also more likely to do voluntary work and to want to go to university than those who have never been physically disciplined.

See. Now I can say that spankers are better parents and creating happier children with a better future than non-spankers.

Some people just need to get over themselves. Just because someone chooses to spank doesn't mean they're a bad parent, or morally corrupt, or anything of the sort.

 

[Indiana Rose Lee]

I really can't believe the logic and explanations in some of these responses. And really, who cares about all these stupid studies? Here's another study for you, just to throw it in the pot:



See. Now I can say that spankers are better parents and creating happier children with a better future than non-spankers.

Some people just need to get over themselves. Just because someone chooses to spank doesn't mean they're a bad parent, or morally corrupt, or anything of the sort.

The people who care about them are the people with an agenda and money to pay for them. They say whatever the writers want them to say in the end, rather like threads here on the dis sometimes, lol.

Anyone who changes an opinion based on either didn't have much of an opinion to begin with.

 

[Anjelica]

I really can't believe the logic and explanations in some of these responses. And really, who cares about all these stupid studies? Here's another study for you, just to throw it in the pot:



See. Now I can say that spankers are better parents and creating happier children with a better future than non-spankers.

Some people just need to get over themselves. Just because someone chooses to spank doesn't mean they're a bad parent, or morally corrupt, or anything of the sort.

Don't forget using tactics from the "middle ages". But again what do I know, I am apparently morally corrupt...

 

[luvsJack]

Again, can't see the point of what this does. What does it teach anybody? And why not use the techniques you use in preschool?

Some of the techniques used with 3 and 4 year olds just don't work with 10 and 11 year olds. I have always used reward systems, time outs, groundings, etc. With dd, for instance, I may ground her from tv, phone and the computer and then by certain behaviors over a certain amount of time she earns privledges back. Spanking is just at the top of the discipline pyramid for us and there have been times that each of the kids have reached that tip. Its not like they got spanked on a daily basis or even for everything they did.

 

[themilesfamily]

I really can't believe the logic and explanations in some of these responses. And really, who cares about all these stupid studies? Here's another study for you, just to throw it in the pot:



See. Now I can say that spankers are better parents and creating happier children with a better future than non-spankers.

Some people just need to get over themselves. Just because someone chooses to spank doesn't mean they're a bad parent, or morally corrupt, or anything of the sort.

There has been only one study that I am aware of that found in favor of spanking -- the one you just quoted. It was done by Marjorie Gunnoe at Calvin College, a Christian college affiliated with the Christian Reform Church in Grand Rapids, Michigan.

The study methods were found to be flawed and incomplete and no journal that she submitted it to would publish it. But it still floats around the Internet.

To the contrary, there have been a string of studies, and I'd be happy to post all of the links here that have come to the same conclusion -- spanking is detrimental and ineffective and, as parents, we can do better.

ETA: I think in the end what bothers me most about spanking is that you're giving your child the message that it is EVER okay to hit/spank/swat someone to solve a problem. And, other than in hockey ( ) I don't believe it is. I believe that children learn by example and I don't want to set the example for my child that hitting another person -- or allowing yourself to be hit -- is okay. Why even go there when there are other ways to discipline that are as effective or more effective?

 

[Anjelica]

To the contrary, there have been a string of studies, and I'd be happy to post all of the links here that have come to the same conclusion -- spanking is detrimental and ineffective and, as parents, we can do better.

"Studies Aim to Settle the Longstanding Debate Over the Disciplinary Practice's Effects, but Statistical Shortcomings Persist" -> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125548136491383915.html

Sorry but I think every parent can do better in some form or fashion and not just when it comes to discipline. As human beings we are all flawed.

As FD has pointed out I really don't care if you spank or don't spank but I think its pretty harsh criticism that some are laying out. "Morally corrupt", "Middle Age Tactics", etc.

 

[themilesfamily]

"Studies Aim to Settle the Longstanding Debate Over the Disciplinary Practice's Effects, but Statistical Shortcomings Persist" -> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125548136491383915.html

Sorry but I think every parent can do better in some form or fashion and not just when it comes to discipline. As human beings we are all flawed.

As FD has pointed out I really don't care if you spank or don't spank but I think its pretty harsh criticism that some are laying out. "Morally corrupt", "Middle Age Tactics", etc.

I think what was exciting for researchers about this latest study is that they were able to correct some of the weaknesses of earlier studies. They provided better controls and eliminated some of the variables between groups. (Thus the headline: "Strongest evidence yet against spanking" -- their words, not mine.)

I think we're all just trying to parent the best we can, but I think it's wrong to poo-poo the results of serious, peer-reviewed studies -- especially when so many are coming to the same conclusion.

If a person has never worked in a field that relies on research, (medicine, psychiatry, counseling, etc.), then I can see why it may not seem relevant. I do find research relevant and worth considering.

 

[Deb in IA]

I think what was exciting for researchers about this latest study is that they were able to correct some of the weaknesses of earlier studies. They provided better controls and eliminated some of the variables between groups being studied. (Thus the headline: "Strongest evidence yet against spanking" -- their words, not mine.)

I think we're all just trying to parent the best we can, but I think it's wrong to poo-poo the results of serious, peer-reviewed studies -- especially when so many studies are coming to the same conclusion.

If a person has never worked in a field that relies on research, (medicine, psychiatry, counseling, etc.), then I can see why it may not seem relevant. I do find research relevant and worth considering.

Thank you, themilesfamily.

I, for one, do not believe in the theory "we do it this way because we've always done it this way."

I believe that, when there is data and evidence, we should consider changing our views and our behaviors. Maybe we can IMPROVE how we've "always" done things. Maybe, just maybe, we can do BETTER.

Anyway, good luck with your message. And be prepared for LOTS of criticism. I've found, as you may know, from my posts about childhood immunizations, some folks around here don't care how much scientific evidence and proof you give them. They KNOW, they just KNOW what is best for their kids.