Stopping ILLEGAL immigration... what would be YOUR plan?

[FreshTressa]

I have no problem with legal immigration.

I live in the northwest where we have a HUGE asian population. Heck, my DH works for a Japanese company.

No complaints at all. In general, they assimilate, learn English, pay taxes and otherwise act American.

I have no problem with the many many Latino immigrants that we have here too. In fact, I do volunteer work at a community center that teaches ELL classes. I love the people I work with. It is a shame they are not able to become legal because the system is so messed up.

What I do have a problem with is a government that makes a law, but then does not enforce it...causing a whole underground, black market system of illegals. The immigration needs to be MANAGED, not ignored.

I'd rather the fence money went to restructuring the system so that both sides could benefit.

 

[Jabber_Jaws]

I Exposing the selfishness of people on the other side of some of these issues is as good as calling people's houses and bugging them with political issues.


I give what I can to charity, but my first responsibility is to my own family.

Your first responsibility is to your family? With all the illegals out there that need your money? That is just being selfish.

 

[ford family]

Is it free for emergencies or free for everything? If I showed up and overstayed a visa, do I get free healthcare for everything I need?

I also thought there is a market for private insurance in the UK, as well as in Canada and other countries with national systems. So, you're paying twice....unless your employer pays for the private insurance.

Is it a pervasive problem? At last count, we had over 11 million illegal immigrants here. Do you see it to that extent in the UK?

It just makes me wonder why more uninsured Americans aren't rushing to Canada for free care. Heck, I'm close to the border, I'd be tempted to stop paying for my insurance and going there for the free care.

Thank you for the information. I always learn so much from this board.

Free for emergencies, non urgent items require being on a waiting list so you need to plan your visits carefully, but still free.
The waiting lists are one of the main reasons why people have private medical insurance. If you have private medical insurance you are, indeed, paying twice.
If your employer pays for the insurance then you gat taxed on its value as a benefit in kind.
As for numbers of illegal immigrants, its too early in the morning to start checking but I guess we have more pro rata than you do. I'll revert later.

ford family

 

[disneyaggie]

Grammatical errors like the one bolded above? Careful you don't walk into any of those glass walls.

I feel safe to say I can type out an e-mail that small with no errors. His e-mail was so small it only had a few broken sentences, periods that did not exist, and other errors.Anyone can type out an e-mail pretty much without grammatical errors, especially with automatic spell check that is engrained in the e-mail system (not like here ).

My personal belief is that Stitch knows that the Dis Board system does not have automatic spell check so he "works his magic" after someone posts. That little stinker.

 

[Miss Jasmine]

I feel safe to say I can type out an e-mail that small with no errors. His e-mail was so small it only had a few broken sentences, periods that did not exist, and other errors.Anyone can type out an e-mail pretty much without grammatical errors, especially with automatic spell check that is engrained in the e-mail system (not like here ).

My personal belief is that Stitch knows that the Dis Board system does not have automatic spell check so he "works his magic" after someone posts. That little stinker.

What exactly does "engrained" mean? And you do know you can't rely on spell checkers because if you misspell the word and it's another correctly spelled word, the spell checker will not catch it.

 

[dennis99ss]

There was a question, way back, that asked about numbers allowed. I would set requirements, such as health status, viable place to live, support system, but, after that, let people in. However, I would also work to improve the conditions in the areas where they come from, so they would feel less a need to come here in order to survive.

To those who complain about the Mexican flag.....

What about "African-Americans" instead of just americans.
What about the Irish flag being flown, or the german or the italian.
Did you know there is a big push by the Irish for immigration changes as well?

 

[Miss Jasmine]

There was a question, way back, that asked about numbers allowed. I would set requirements, such as health status, viable place to live, support system, but, after that, let people in. However, I would also work to improve the conditions in the areas where they come from, so they would feel less a need to come here in order to survive.

To those who complain about the Mexican flag.....

What about "African-Americans" instead of just americans.
What about the Irish flag being flown, or the german or the italian.
Did you know there is a big push by the Irish for immigration changes as well?

Interesting that you bring up the Irish, I know some who are in this country illegally. Funny, how no one complains about them. Also, there are are Asians in this country illegally. No one talks about them. It's all fixated on the Mexicans. But it's not racial.

Or how about we talk about Puerto Rico which gets all the benefits but pays no taxes.

 

[CheshireVal]

Interesting that you bring up the Irish, I know some who are in this country illegally. Funny, how no one complains about them. Also, there are are Asians in this country illegally. No one talks about them. It's all fixated on the Mexicans. But it's not racial.

Or how about we talk about Puerto Rico which gets all the benefits but pays no taxes.

It's biggest Mexicans make up the largest percentage-- they are the most visible.

 

[Crankyshank]

Interesting that you bring up the Irish, I know some who are in this country illegally. Funny, how no one complains about them. Also, there are are Asians in this country illegally. No one talks about them. It's all fixated on the Mexicans. But it's not racial.

Or how about we talk about Puerto Rico which gets all the benefits but pays no taxes.

I love the insinuations thrown around on the various threads on this topic that the reason why people have an issue with illegal immigration is because it's prejudice against Mexicans. I'm not saying Miss Jasmine is stating this - the quote above was just a jumping point for me.

Just because someone is complaining about illegal immigrants it doesn't mean they are referring to Mexicans. Around here if someone is complaining about illegal immigration it's primarily Cape Verdeans, Cambodian (although there are much less of them nowadays) Dominicans, Brazilians, and other countries including Canada and Mexico. There's actually fewer Mexican illegals up here than those from other countries for what I would think would be fairly obvious reasons.
I don't care what country you are coming from - don't come here if you can't be bothered to go through the proper channels. Period.

 

[AllyandJack]

I love the insinuations thrown around on the various threads on this topic that the reason why people have an issue with illegal immigration is because it's prejudice against Mexicans. I'm not saying Miss Jasmine is stating this - the quote above was just a jumping point for me.

Just because someone is complaining about illegal immigrants it doesn't mean they are referring to Mexicans. Around here if someone is complaining about illegal immigration it's primarily Cape Verdeans, Cambodian (although there are much less of them nowadays) Dominicans, Brazilians, and other countries including Canada and Mexico. There's actually fewer Mexican illegals up here than those from other countries for what I would think would be fairly obvious reasons.
I don't care what country you are coming from - don't come here if you can't be bothered to go through the proper channels. Period.

 

[cardaway]

Interesting that you bring up the Irish, I know some who are in this country illegally. Funny, how no one complains about them. Also, there are are Asians in this country illegally. No one talks about them. It's all fixated on the Mexicans. But it's not racial.

Or how about we talk about Puerto Rico which gets all the benefits but pays no taxes.

Like FreshTressa I am fully aware there are illegals from more than one country. As she demonstrated in her posts, the issue here in the Northwest is equally bad with Asians and Europeans.

So yes, it's not racial. One can really have an opinion about the illegal folks from a certain country and not have a problem with everybody from that country.

Personally I work with hundreds (yes over a hundred) Asians and I would guess some of them are illegal. I don't go around treating any of them differently, but I would certainly vote for things that would cause us to lose a few workers.

 

[SpaceMonkeyMC]

I hate posting late....makes it impossible to comment on everything in a (semi) timely manner.

Concerning the debate about pregnant illegals you should understand that the point of the story was not that citizens take precedence over illegals. The point was that had there not been illegals exploiting the health system her sick child would have been seen much more quickly than occured. That point is undeniable. Don't twist it.

Canadians exploit the US health system too. Northern states see a large amount of Canadian citizens in their ERs and clinics. Why? Canadian health care stinks. They paid their high tax rate for free health coverage and won't even use it. Thats how bad it is.

Hospitals routinely classify people without health insurance as aliens, etc because of reimbursement purposes. If they are a citizen the hospital cannot bill the government unless that person is enrolled in a government aid program (not doable on the spot). Therefore they classify them as an alien and bill the government for a Medicaid UPL (upper limit payment). It means the hospital gets more money than they otherwise would. That needs to be cracked down on as much as illegal immigration. Immigrant health care costs to Texas taxpayers is $520 million annually.

As someone mentioned the issue with those immigrating from Mexico is one of volume. "Overall, the growth in the Mexican immigrant population accounts for 37.8 percent of the total increase in the number of immigrants living in the United States." (Center for Immigration Studies) There is also a difference in that someone coming to the US from China is probably going to build a life here. There is a large portion of Mexican immigrants who come here for short periods of time.

No one talks about Canadian immigrants because there are hardly any. in 1996 there were 15,825 Canadian immigrants compared with 324,715 immigrants from Mexico, Central, and South America. More than all Asian immigrants (268, 248), and more than European immigrants (147,581). Quite a disparity. Further, and as mentioned before, many of those other immigrants come here with the intent of setting up a life, or have a job.

Revy, you don't see the immigration issue because in 1994 West Virginia had a total of 17 immigrants (US Citizenship and Immigration Service. Status determined as those AmerAsian, Vietnamese, Laotian, Cuban, Hatian, Iranian, Iraqi, Ethiopian, Liberian, Somalian, Sudanese, USSR, and Yugo). Texas had 6,223. Even poor immigrants don't want to live in W.V.

Many immigrants live in subpar US conditions not because they can't pay for it but because they choose not to. Often they send a large portion of what they make back to Mexico and live on the rest (means not paying for insurance -health, car, or other). It would be interesting to see a study on how much it is estimated is removed from the US economy because of these practices.

Immigration and Education:
From the Federation for American Immigration Reform
"Today, one in five students has at least one foreign-born parent. In California, almost half of the students starting school are immigrants or the children of immigrants. As a result...about 14 percent of schools exceed their capacity by six to 25 percent, and eight percent exceed it by more than 25 percent." The school overcrowding in WV is a very different problem than school crowding in California, Texas, Arizona, Florida. Texas spend an additional $4 Billion on education for illegal aliens.

Immigration and its total cost:
"The illegal alien population was estimated to be about five million persons. The estimated fiscal cost of those illegal aliens to the federal, state and local governments was about $33 billion. This impact was partially offset by an estimated $12.6 billion in taxes paid to the federal, state and local governments, resulting in a net cost to the American taxpayer of about $20 billion every year." (Federation for American Immigration Reform). You want your share of that 20 Billion back? I do.

Conclusion:
I think its clear that there is quite a "free-rider" problem existing here. Its not dehumanizing them to say that we will not allow them to tax our social services system. Its not dehumanizing them to say you have to follow the proper process to be a part of our nation. The discussion about them not having been fortunate enough to be born in our nation could be extended to millions of other people in the world. Shall we include them all? Do we have the means for that?

Alan Greenspan said it best when he told Bernie Sanders something to the effect that 97% of the worlds wealth is concentrated in the hands of 3% of the people. Even if you distributed that out it would give even the poorest person only $2 a day for a year.

We don't say people can't immigrate to the US. But we do try to make sure that the people who come here and here to contribute to society rather than leach off it. They do take jobs from those willing to work. Why was it that in college in order to work in a freight dock at the airport I had to present government ID, social security, and even a high school transcript and proof of Texas residency for 10 years. Yet I stand there in line with people who say "hola" instead of "hello" and they get hired virtually on the spot. You intend to tell me that this does not constitute the robbery of jobs from the US?

And before you throw it out there, I think that citizens who don't pay taxes and use social services should be hit with the book too.

 

[dennis99ss]

spacemonkeymc, I don't see you trying to cut my grass or clean my house? Or build it, tile it, do the concrete work in the back, etc. And, yes, I am from here, just with a different look at things than you. You want some of the 20 billion back.....you forgot to add in how much the immigrant work force saves consumers. I would bet it is well over 20 billion. In my house alone, i bet the cost would have doubled.

 

[Bravosntha2g]

Whether they help the economy or not is irrelevant.

A nation without borders is no longer a nation. This is issue is a lot more important to homeland security than that laugher about the UAE a few weeks ago.

The funniest sign I've seen from these fools protesting is "WE ARE NOT CRIMINALS, WE ARE HERE TO WORK." The very definition of an ILLEGAL immigrant is that they are breaking the law.

Militarize the border immediately. There's no reason that we are still using our military on the Korean border but not our own.

 

[wvrevy]

Whether they help the economy or not is irrelevant.

A nation without borders is no longer a nation. This is issue is a lot more important to homeland security than that laugher about the UAE a few weeks ago.

The funniest sign I've seen from these fools protesting is "WE ARE NOT CRIMINALS, WE ARE HERE TO WORK." The very definition of an ILLEGAL immigrant is that they are breaking the law.

Militarize the border immediately. There's no reason that we are still using our military on the Korean border but not our own.

If you had a hang nail, would you cut off your hand? Militarize the border ? You really do want a Berlin Wall on our border?

Wow.

 

[dennis99ss]

Makes them feel good about themselves. Of course, I still think it is a poitical game.

I will predict, and you can all call me on it if I am wrong, that the senate will pass one version, the house will pass another, there will not be a compromise until after november, when the issue will slowly die.

 

[Bravosntha2g]

If that's what it takes yes. I don't see how people could get so worked up over the management of a few ports, yet they don't want that same level of security on a huge border.

We are becoming a meaningless nation the more and more we rationalize ILLEGAL immigration.

 

[wvrevy]

If that's what it takes yes. I don't see how people could get so worked up over the management of a few ports, yet they don't want that same level of security on a huge border.

We are becoming a meaningless nation the more and more we rationalize ILLEGAL immigration.

I'm curious as to just what you think the meaning of this nation is, if you favor putting a new Berlin Wall on our southern border, complete with machine gun nests. One thing's for sure...that meaning certainly can't be "land of the free".

 

[Bravosntha2g]

Why couldn't it be? Free for those who are here legally! Those who are considering coming here illegally? Shot on sight.

Open the gates to those in Africa who are trying to come here the legal way, the way Italians came through Ellis Island.

 

[SpaceMonkeyMC]

spacemonkeymc, I don't see you trying to cut my grass or clean my house? Or build it, tile it, do the concrete work in the back, etc. And, yes, I am from here, just with a different look at things than you. You want some of the 20 billion back.....you forgot to add in how much the immigrant work force saves consumers. I would bet it is well over 20 billion. In my house alone, i bet the cost would have doubled.

Just because I'm not trying to doesn't mean someone wouldn't. If you're such a do-gooder why don't you go ask a homeless person if they'd cut your grass for half of what you pay your immigrant laborer. You are attempting to use my situation as an example of the aggregate and that always fails. More on this below.

I doubt that they provide $20 billion worth of savings to consumers. Especially since people typically pay them to do things they are too lazy, or don't want to do themselves. $20 billion is quite a large number, and $20 to haul your garbage away takes a while to mount up to $20 billion. Not to mention that the money they make and pull out of the US adds to that $20 billion figure.

Then add to the fact that those health care and other costs are estimates from the mid 90s. Those numbers increase by large amounts, and even though it is true now that illegal immigrants use up less resources than citizens, that gap grows smaller every year.

Your lazy butt can mow your own grass, and you probably would if you weren't too busy watching reality tv and screwing an immigrant out of a fair wage. (I can turn your arguments around on you like you do to others). So thanks for contributing to the problem. The people who complain that we're dehumanizing immigrants by deporting them are the same ones who say they should be allowed to stay because they work for pennies on the dollar. This argument is consistent? This is compassion? No, it is selfishness.

I don't want to pay a fair labor wage for my house to be built. I'd rather build a really nice house at a cheap cost, while the people who put my roof on go home at the end of the day to no air conditioning. Thanks for thinking of others.

Further, its not always true that immigrants make lower wages than citizens. What is true is that many employers don't have to report them (or can get away with not reporting them) by paying cash, and therefore not paying employment taxes and benefits (Unemployment tax, workers comp, etc), further straining the tax system. My airport job which I reference paid in the area of $12 an hour. You think Bob Wilson makes that being paid more than minimum wage at the local McDonalds? I make the equvalent of about $15 an hour right now for a white collar job that allows me to sit here and debunk your myths. You're saying $12 an hour is a raw deal? It saves consumers money?

Name for me some ways other than farming, or things people can do for themselves (domestic duties) that an immigrant aided your wallet this month. Even farming is a bit of a poor example. You think we're concerned about low prices? If we didn't subsidize the hell out of agriculture then everyone would pay 10 cents for a bag of tomatoes. Our government is interested in keeping the prices up so that farmers don't strain our welfare systems.

Yes, how they affect the economy is important. As is national security. No one unequated the two.