Irwin in conversation
ONE of the most revealing interviews Steve Irwin ever gave was to ABC TV's Enough Rope with Andrew Denton in 2003. Here are some of the highlights from that conversation:
Andrew Denton: I'm looking forward to this, it'll be fun.
Steve Irwin: It will be. I'm on fire, mate. Let's get into it.
Andrew Denton: We're already at the red level for energy and haven't got to the first question. The Australia Zoo, which is now Steve Irwin central on the Sunshine Coast...
Steve Irwin: Yeah, mate, that's where my heart beats from.
Andrew Denton: This was started by your mum and dad...
Steve Irwin: Yeah.
Andrew Denton: ..back in the '70s. And it was hard, wasn't it? It was so hard sometimes, your mum would cry. What was so tough?
Steve Irwin: Well, mate, it was 1970 and, um, Dad was a plumber - really well-to-do plumber - he did really well in Melbourne. But he gave it all away to follow his passion - reptiles. And Mum was a maternity nurse who actually wanted to follow her passion, which was joey kangaroos and koalas and wombats and platypus - raising them - you know, they're getting hit by cars all the time. So, together, they started the Beerwah Reptile Park in 1970. And it was tough times. We were on the main highway - like, the Bruce Highway - but, um, it was the Beerwah Reptile Park. And at that stage, snakes were something you hit with a stick, you know, crocodiles were just evil, ugly monsters that killed people and koalas and kangaroos made, you know, great, um, fur coats.
Andrew Denton: Yeah.
Steve Irwin: So it was hard times, mate.
Andrew Denton: They weren't a bad barbecue either.
Steve Irwin: Ohhh!
Steve Irwin: Lucky enough, we're kind of...we're putting our foot on that kind of attitude, but, um...
Andrew Denton: No, that was wrong, people.
Steve Irwin: And it was, yeah, tourism... Exactly. And I'm bigger than you, mate.
Andrew Denton: Yeah.
Steve Irwin: Hey, um, tourism... Just kidding. Steady.
Andrew Denton: This could be bad if you wrestle me to the ground...
Steve Irwin: Should we do that?
AUDIENCE: Yeah!
Steve Irwin: Yeah? Alright!
CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
Andrew Denton: Tell you what...
Steve Irwin: (Laughs)
Andrew Denton: ..let's get a bit further in and we'll see how we go, alright?
Steve Irwin: Yeah.
Andrew Denton: Because I want to oil up first...
Steve Irwin: (Laughs) Seriously, tourism, was, you know, it was in its infancy back then and it was so tough that Dad had to go fishing on the sideline, he had to grow strawberries and capsicums to actually support, um, his...his passion, which was his wildlife facility.
Andrew Denton: You grew up with the animals. They were your playmates.
Steve Irwin: Absolutely. Absolutely, Andrew. In my house, when I was growing up, Mum would have 12, uh, pouches, you know, make-believe kangaroo pouches set up on the backs of chairs, virtually everywhere. So we'd have 12 little joeys, ranging from little pinkies all the way up to one-year-olds. Um, you know, koalas hanging off the curtains, you know, with gumleaves stuck in there, sugar gliders gliding through. Like, you'd be walking down through the house... (To cameraman) Stay with me, mate. ..the next minute, clack, you know, on your bare back you'd be...a possum - arggh! - ripped into you. And, of course, inside the house was just snakesville.
Andrew Denton: Really?
Steve Irwin: Oh, crikey, mate! Chock-a-block full of snakes. Every wall that was spare had snakes in it. You know, starting a reptile park, which then became a fauna sanctuary, it was like, whatever you could jam in the house, mate, 'cause everything needed to be close to your heart.
Andrew Denton: Your dad actually reckons you've got a gift.
Steve Irwin: Yeah.
Andrew Denton: An animal instinct which enables you to deal with animals. What is that gift, do you think?
Steve Irwin: Yeah, well, um, Dad was the first one to notice it - and good on him. I'm just a product of my parents and my environment. And I was four years old and Dad was catching snakes for the then Commonwealth Serum Laboratory, right? He was looking for brown snakes and tiger snakes at a place called Bulla in Victoria. And so we're looking for tiger snakes and brown snakes and I'm four years old and rattling around helping him. But, you know, I was playing imaginary games, imaginary armies. You know, shooting back at the...it was Japanese back then, 'cause my grandfather and great-grandfather died in WWII, so it was the Japanese I was hunting. Whatever. Please don't... Like, I...I drive a Toyota.
Andrew Denton: Yeah.
LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE
Steve Irwin: So, nonetheless... Hunting around, hunting around, and Dad's over there and here's this huge brown snake - a absolute whopper, well over five foot. (Stands up) I've come up and gone, "Oh! Oh! Oh!" (Stomps foot on imaginary snake) Like this. "Oh! Oh!" You know? Got it. "Dad! Dad! I got one! I got one!" And he's, like, "What is he on about?" "Look!" And here's this brown snake, Andy, and it's up on my shin. Like, I'm wearing plastic sandals. No socks either. And here's this brown snake with its head on my leg and I've got it pinned, almost as thick as my dad's wrist. And he's gone, "Whack," and belted me out of the way, crushed me like a bug. 'Cause I thought... I'd got this brown snake for him and thought I'd come out of this a hero, and he decks me. But he thought he saved my life, and, you know, for months, he's scratching his head. "How come that kid never got killed by that brown snake?" And I guess he figured it out then. He's figured, "This kid's got something." So, you know, he's watched this develop. Then Mum and Dad just propped me up. Just propped me up. Every time I'd make mistakes, they'd keep, "Hang in there, lad, hang in there." And they just kept helping me and persuading me to follow my passion, which was wildlife. And that, in essence, helped me be who I am.
Andrew Denton: I'm fascinated with this idea of this gift. Do you have a sense of it? When dealing with an animal, do you have a sense of, "I know what you'll do"? I mean, can you pick its personality, for instance? What is it in your head?
Steve Irwin: How on earth could I explain that? You know, I'm in Africa, right, and here's...here's...here's a pride of lions. I've never worked with lions in my life, ever. Righto. Got a camera crew with me. I'm, like, "Oh, yeah, there's a pride of lions. "Oh, I'm going to crawl up to them." Like, last week, a Japanese tourist got killed and eaten by a lion, probably the same pride that did it. But for some known...unknown thing that goes in my head and my heart, I know what I can do. So I get on all fours and I go up to these lions and sneak right up to them. And Johnny Stainton, who's around here somewhere, he's filming it, and he's like this... (Blows raspberry) "What's he doing?" I get up to the lions and go, "Eh!" They go, "Waaah!" and run off. How do you explain that? I don't know how to explain that. And I've never been bitten by a venomous snake. I play with them every day - well, kind of play with them - and never, ever been bitten. And I think that's, um...it's because when I grab a venomous snake, it's, like, going in on your shoelace. It's, like, people tie their shoes... (Grabs Andrew's shoelace roughly)
Andrew Denton: Yeah?
Steve Irwin: Yeah. Don't really give a rip. Whereas me, it's like, "Oh." (Gently handles shoelace) You know, you're very gentle with the shoelace. It's like this, mate. Most people deal with snakes - no, fair dinkum - the first thing they do is go for the head. Get them from the head, right?
Andrew Denton: Yeah.
Steve Irwin: (Reaching for Andrew's neck) What's the sensation when someone goes for your head? Pretty threatening, isn't it?
Andrew Denton: Tell the truth - is there ever a time when you're afraid?
Steve Irwin: Yeah, plenty, plenty, plenty, plenty, plenty. Plenty of times. Unfortunately, in my line of work, I have to deal in some really heavy-duty places, you know, like, um, East Timor, for example. I was up there when there was some strife going on. I spend a fair bit of time in Central and South America with a bit of strife going on there, had a couple of nasty incidents happen in Africa, in Kenya, not long after the Nairobi bombing, actually. Yeah, they make me scared, like, you know, pretty scared. But what scares me more than anything is bringing my daughter into the world. The world has changed, Andrew, hasn't it? You know, there's this dark cloud of terrorism. She's been on 230-odd flights, I think, and she's, like, just five years old. So we spend a lot of time in planes, 'cause I like to take my family wherever I go in the world. People factor does actually scare the living daylights out of me, and I've seen some pretty awful, icky sort of things going on.
Andrew Denton: So animals don't scare you but humans do?
Steve Irwin: Oh, fair dinkum, mate, they do, yeah, they do.
Andrew Denton: I want to talk more about family in a little bit, but I'm curious in you offstage when you're not performing. Is there anything in your wardrobe that's not khaki?
Steve Irwin: Ah, I've got a pair of jeans.
Andrew Denton: Are you always at this level? Is there a quiet Steve Irwin?
Steve Irwin: Nah.
LAUGHTER
Steve Irwin: Nah, mate, nah.
Andrew Denton: Seriously?
Steve Irwin: Yeah, no, there is, there is. Like, I got...I had my shoulder taken off twice. (Opens shirt and indicates place) Um, oh, God, I was quiet then, mate.
Andrew Denton: Yeah.
Steve Irwin: And I had a few cartilage operations, so stuck in the hospital with the drips and all that.
Andrew Denton: Beyond being heavily medicated, is there...do you have moments of repose, moments of just, "I'll just take it in and sit quietly"?
Steve Irwin: Nah. You know, I have to do a lot of plane flights, and, uh...oh, I'm a handful. I don't know, I haven't made it in the tabloids as the bloke who started the riots and stuff on the planes YET, but I guarantee you it will happen. You know, you can't hang your arm out the window and you can't stop and have a pee and look at the wildlife. You're stuck in this thing for, like, sometimes 14 hours in a leg. You know, like, going to America is a 14-hour stint, mate. It's shocking awful to sit there. And all the... You can't, I'm just... I like a good movie, but not five of them in a row. It's, like... And, you know, I don't read much, you know, like, I'm just...
Andrew Denton: You don't read? How come you don't read?
Steve Irwin: Well, I do read, but, you know, not for 14 hours. You know, surf mags take a good 20 minutes.
Andrew Denton: Do you ever get down? You talked about being frightened by human behaviour. What gets you down?
Steve Irwin: Um, I've been down, mate, I've been down, I've been way down. I've been down...I've been down as far as anyone can go down, mate. I lost my mum in a car crash. I went down, I went right down. I watched my dad suffer. I watched my whole family suffer. And I have never felt pain like that in my entire life, my friend. And what it did for me was it actually hammered home the whole family value thing and what it's like to have a family and you're all...everybody's someone's mum, you know? And I was down, I was down for the count. I was down for...two years I was down. Way down.
Andrew Denton: It's interesting when you say you've mimicked your parents, you look up to your dad, you've basically carried on the family business. Do you have a sense of yourself as yourself? What will it be for you when your father goes? Will you be able to be yourself?
Steve Irwin: I see my dad getting older and older and older, and I must admit I'm scared, I'm really, really scared, that when I lose him that my life is going to change yet again. I am going to go down again. But I'm really lucky that I've got the most drop-dead gorgeous wife on earth, who is just so strong and so passionate and so Stevo-orientated.
LAUGHTER
Steve Irwin: No, mate, you wouldn't... She is... If I said, "Righto, sweetheart, today we're going to jump off a cliff," she'll go, "Righto." She'd pack a bag, though.
Andrew Denton: Yeah.
Steve Irwin: But she'd go, eh?
Andrew Denton: She's practical.
Steve Irwin: Yeah, I've got this thing...I've got the Terry factor, mate. I've got this wife that is so incredibly intelligent and strong that I reckon between us we'll get through it. And, of course, my daughter is like...she's going to be a Tibetan monk. She is, like, incredibly insightful. And when her gran died, she was very, very young but, you know, she'd hold my hand and she'd give me strength. And to this day, when I get an owie, like a croc bites me, you know, she'd put banana leaves on it and stuff, and, you know, make me feel good.
Andrew Denton: Yeah.
Steve Irwin: I guess when that time comes, because... I'm not sure what's going to happen but I've got some strong people, good strong family around me, mate.
Andrew Denton: You say that Terry's very Stevo-oriented.
Steve Irwin: Oh, yeah.
Andrew Denton: If Terry said to you, unlikely though this might be, "Steve, I want you to stop the travelling, I want you to just stay home," would you be prepared to do that? Does it work both ways? She'd jump over a cliff for you.
Steve Irwin: Absolutely, I'd do anything for her. Absolutely anything. My word. I got so lucky in 1992 when she walked into the zoo. I'm doing a crocodile demonstration, and I looked in the crowd. I'd been in the bush for two years catching crocs. Haven't seen any sheilas.
LAUGHTER So, yeah, I was hungry. And, um, come back and I'm doing a croc demo, and I look into the crowd and I see her and I'm, like, "Oh!" (Looks one way) "Whoa whoa whoa!" (Looks back at imaginary croc) To feed the croc, you know... Bloody croc tried to kill me and that. She stayed back and started talking to me and that was it - head over heels in love. And if she says to me, "That's it, we're stopping, we're doing this," then, well, I'd do it, because I know that she would not ask me to do that if it wasn't for the benefit of us - the family. It would have to be for the benefit of my daughter and our kid that's due to come. Otherwise she wouldn't ask. She's not that...you know, she's not that kind of sheila, you know? She's into what I'm into. She's as passionate about wildlife as I am. If I said, "Go up and stick your head in that elephant's bum," she'd do it, mate.
Andrew Denton: You're a smooth talker, Steve Irwin.
Steve Irwin: I am, mate. I am. Romantic.
Andrew Denton: What's your philosophy of fatherhood?
Steve Irwin: Um...my philosophy of fatherhood? You know, I just treat her exactly the same way as I would want to be treated. And, you know, the funny thing is, Andy, I treat my wildlife the same, you know? Like, if there was a croc there, I'd treat that croc like I'd treat my daughter, like I'd treat you, like I'd treat my wife, like I'd treat anyone. I treat things how I, in turn, would want to be treated. So my little kid, I just treat her how I want to be treated. You know how... My mum said, "You can't have ice-cream for breakfast." (Pretends to hand bowl to daughter) "Here, sweetheart, have it."
AUDIENCE GIGGLES
Steve Irwin: "Go hard." And, you know... Yeah. Absolutely. "You want to catch that snake? Sure, it's venomous, but we'll do it and I'll show you how," and we did it.
Andrew Denton: You have animals in the house, don't you?
Steve Irwin: Oh, yeah. My word.
Andrew Denton: She came close to a carpet snake once.
Steve Irwin: Yeah, bit her right on the face. Her first snakebite.
Andrew Denton: Oh, that must have been a proud moment.
Steve Irwin: It was a very proud moment. She's a snake... She's a snake maniac. My kid...my daughter's a snake freak. She loves snakes. Her favourite animal - the snake. You know, born and raised with snakes. So here's this carpet python coming across the road at night - we were going out to Poppy's house, and she's like, "Oh, Daddy, Daddy," you know. I said, "Yeah, don't worry, sweetheart. I'll save it." So I run out and grab the snake and she starts whingeing - "I want the snake!" "Alright, sweetheart, but watch out, he's a bit bitey." She grabs it and she starts singing, "Rock-a-bye, baby," like this. It goes whack! Bites her right on the lip. And she's like... (Almost whimpers) I said, "I told you he would bite you." She's like, "It's OK, Dad. Rock-a-bye..." Whack! Right on the nose. She goes, "Let it go, Dad." Gave it back to me. There's blood all pouring down there. I was very proud of her.
LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE
Andrew Denton: Is she...? Because you were raised to have no fear of animals - and it seems to me you naturally didn't - is Bindi the same? Is she going to be the same?
Steve Irwin: I reckon she's, um...she's a bit smarter than I was. In fact, I'd say she's a lot smarter than I was. I think the whole, girl thing... You know, this whole girl-boy thing... I don't know what it's like having a boy, but they don't seem incredibly intelligent till they reach 30. Really, I wasn't all that intelligent till I reached 30. Um, Bindi, I see, is a lot more clever and calculated before she actually jumps in. She'll...unlike me, when I was, say, five years of age, she'd anticipate - "Head, tail, body. Dad's there, he'll take the head. I'll get this bit." Whereas me, I just... "Ahhh!" ..just would have jumped in there. So I think she's a little more clever and calculated than I ever was at that age.
Andrew Denton: A lot of people see you as this... this larger than life Steve Irwin, in some ways a one-dimensional, almost cartoon character. But what they, perhaps, don't know is you've bought huge tracts of land in Australia, Vanuatu, Fiji, US. Why have you done that?
Steve Irwin: I'm a conservationist through and through, Andrew. That's, er...that's why I was put on this planet, um, for the benefit of wildlife and wilderness areas. That's what I'm into. That's what makes me pumped, mate. That's what myself and Terry and our families have been all about.
Andrew Denton: So what's this land for?
Steve Irwin: Um, it's like national parks, mate.
Steve Irwin: We... You know, easily the greatest threat to the wildlife globally is the destruction and annihilation of habitat. So I've gone, "Right, well, how do I fix that? Well, making a quid here. People are keen to give me money over there. I'll buy it. I'll buy habitat." And I reckon the only thing wrong... Now, how's this? The only thing wrong with, you know, wildlife in Australia is that I don't own it. I could... Imagine how many kangaroos and crocodiles I could have if I owned Australia? It's, um... My wife is an American so she's got this, er... She's, um...you know, she's a good capitalist. And, er, she's very clever with money. Me, I'm not that clever and I don't really give a rip, but, er, she is. And, um, so whenever we get a...a, um...enough cash and enough...and a...and a chunk of land that we're passionate about, bang, we buy it. And what we're trying to do is we're trying to set an example to the world that, um, every single person can make a difference. Particularly those in the, um, in the political arena, um, those that have zoological facilities, any, you know, multinationals, any millionaires. They can all make a difference by buying chunks of land. And, in addition to that, every single person - man, woman and child, no matter what walk of life you're in, whether you're a, um, a fisherman, a janitor, um, Steve Irwin, the Croc Hunter - you can make a difference in wildlife by simply not purchasing wildlife products. Because today, Andrew, the wildlife perpetrators, they're hard to spot, mate. But what it is, these wildlife perpetrators now kill animals and call it 'sustainable use'. That, "Oh, let's kill crocs, turn them into belts and that's sustainable," you know? That isn't sustainable. Since when has killing wildlife saved anything? So, I'm a wildlife warrior through and through. And buying land means: A. that we're going to be able to get animals back if, and or when they become highly endangered; and B. getting out into the world, taking you, the audience, with me, having an adventure, and making it exciting. Otherwise, you're stuck with the demographics that, say, David Attenborough's got which is a bit smaller than what I got. And changing people's opinions on wildlife. How's this? For the first time in history, mate, I've just been involved with an issue where people were worried about the welfare of a shark. How's that? For the first time in history. Yay!