Staying single to collect welfare benefits

[princessmom29]

Well, that's great for your family, and I really do admire them for doing that, but not everyone can do that. Especially with the way things are now, I hate to tell everyone, but the "American Dream" is dead and gone. There was a time when untrained labor could work there way up, but those days are long gone when you have coporate executives that are more than "content to spend their lives living off of the labor of others." Tell me, how are these people suppose to pick themselves up? There is only so many McDonald's jobs to go around. In today's economy, highly educated people are having a difficult time finding a job, how is average person suppose to do it? And as for the military, I really do admire our troops that have the courage to put themselves in harms way, but not everyone can do it.

There are always "now hiring" signs up at the fast food places around here. There are jobs,at least here, for those willing to work. The problem is that it is not the job they want to have, so they choose to continue living off the system. I am all for helping those who ar working or trying to find work, but not those who have no problem taking a handout, but think that it is beneath them to say "would you like fries with that?" Highly educated people are having trouble finding work, not becasue there are nto minimum wage jobs out there but because they are verqualified for them. They cannot support thier current lifestyle on that kind of wage, and since unemployment is based off your previous salary, they are making more from the new "extended" unemployment than they would working. They will either have to take a lower wage job or go on the dole when that runs out.

 

[gandycat]

Unfortunately, my elected officials don't seem to care too much about the will of the American people either...

Who are these people who are working hard and nothing is coming from it? My father grew up dirt poor. He was one of 16 kids, and my grandfather died young of a heart attack, leaving my grandmother alone with all of those children. If she had gone on welfare under those circumstances, I doubt many people would have blamed her. But instead, the older teenagers all got part-time jobs to help out the family. A couple joined the military. She did receive some assistance from her church and neighbors, but they got by without any government aid. And my father has always taught us that you can come from absolutely nothing and still make something of yourself. I know circumstances can sometimes deal people a hard blow, but I wish more people would learn the lesson that my father taught me.

Your dad deserves lots of admiration for what he did! Both of my parents have similar backgrounds. I think the thing that really is different today is that there are very few working class jobs that you can live on now. My dad had no college degree and came from a poor family but he was able to get a job at a mill that paid well and provided benefits, and it was stable. There were lots of jobs that allowed people (men mostly) w/o education to make a living and become part of the middle class (or like my family, lower middle class), they are few and far between now. I am a social worker and have worked with many families collecting welfare. Most of them weren't cheating the system and if they were, it was something like babysitting and getting paid cash (a few $$ a week). Yes, there were 'lifers' and people who were absolutely cheating. But most of the people I worked with felt trapped. They wanted to work but it was not worth it to get off welfare and make $6 an hour, have to pay for child care (I am aware that there is help available but it's not always practical) and lose their insurance. I think if we had more quality jobs for people to work, we'd have way less people who need assistance.

(this next paragraph isn't in direct response to the quote, lol, just the overall thread)

I have to laugh thinking about one of the families I worked with who was on welfare. The mom babysat and made $25 a week in cash, my supervisor wanted me to call welfare and report her and I refused (yes, I know lots of you would have reported her). But the person who wanted me to call had told me about how her dad would add her and her sisters to his payroll at his business b/c it allowed him to pay less in taxes (I think he didn't actually pay them but go to deduct it from his gross income). I am much more okay with a poor person making a few extra $$ than I am with a wealthy business owner cheating to make more money. yes, they are both cheating, but I've seen what being poor does to people's spirits and have more sympathy for them.

 

[Muushka]

If you mean the big corporations and banks, they already have way more power than we.

I just can't get worked up over the unfortunate. Personally, I'm more troubled by the people who live way beyond their means, then declare banruptcy, then start the whole cycle again, meanwhile driving up the costs of things those of us with earned and saved money wish to buy.

But life is too short and sweet to get so angry about things beyond one's control.

Looters being the type of people you just described. When people who don't pay any taxes outnumber those that do, guess who will be voted in? Yup, the ones who promise to take care of them. The looters.

 

[luvsJack]

There are always "now hiring" signs up at the fast food places around here. There are jobs,at least here, for those willing to work. The problem is that it is not the job they want to have, so they choose to continue living off the system. I am all for helping those who ar working or trying to find work, but not those who have no problem taking a handout, but think that it is beneath them to say "would you like fries with that?" Highly educated people are having trouble finding work, not becasue there are nto minimum wage jobs out there but because they are verqualified for them. They cannot support thier current lifestyle on that kind of wage, and since unemployment is based off your previous salary, they are making more from the new "extended" unemployment than they would working. They will either have to take a lower wage job or go on the dole when that runs out.

You are assuming that people are refusing to work, that is not always the case. As I have already said, if working for $300 a month is going to bring your income DOWN by $200 a month and you have kids to feed; guess what? You keep the food stamps and other assistance and turn down the job.

I find it sadly amusing that everyone seems to think that these folks on assistance are living so high on the hog. I can assure you that given an equal choice MOST (not all, but most) would not choose to continue living in the manner that government assistance allow them to.

As for the unemployement and continuing to receive it, have you ever tried to support a family for what you can make at McDonald's?? Full time is not even 40 hours a week. There is no way to support a family on that kind of pay. If I was getting unemployment and my only choice was that or McDonald's, I would choose whichever meant more money which is usually going to be unemployment. When you are in a week to week surival situation it is not about what is or is not beneath you but about having enough money coming in to survive on.

 

[Hannathy]

There is free child care here for anyone on public assistance who chooses to work. You are fooling yourself if you believe that the aid payments of those who have made a career off the system are going to take care of their children. I can tell you from working with those same children every day that they are not. Mom and Dad come first and junior gets what is left most of the time. Sad but true. You are not donig the children any favors by enabling their parents. What will benefit those children most in the long run is a solid education. It is the only answer to beaking the cycle of dependence, but it is really hard to educate a child whose parent doesn't care wether they are at school or not as long as they don't bother them. Don't paint people who are "trapped by the system" as innocent victims becuase I assure you that in the majority of cases they are not. They know exactly what they are doing and choose to continue doing so rather than making the real effort required to better their circumstances, which they are perfectly capable of donig. The recipients ARE part of the problem with the system, but no one wants to admit that. There HAS to be a change in attitude to break the cycle, and yes the majority of career welfare recipients are responsible for their own situation and should be held accountable. I will not apologize for stating what I know from first hand experience to be true, or make excuses for behavior that is inexcusable. I realize that it is often more palatable to paint them as innocent victims of circumstance, and I was apt to do the same thing, until I was shown first hand the reality of the situation.

I agree with you 100%. Trouble is most people live comfortable little lives in nice towns and have never seen,met or lived with the kind of people you are describing. I have and I did live and work with the types you are describing and you are correct. Until you have truly and I don't mean seen on TV or read about it worked with these situations in true poverty area you have no real understanding.

 

[ssawka]

There is free child care here for anyone on public assistance who chooses to work. You are fooling yourself if you believe that the aid payments of those who have made a career off the system are going to take care of their children. I can tell you from working with those same children every day that they are not. Mom and Dad come first and junior gets what is left most of the time. Sad but true. You are not donig the children any favors by enabling their parents. What will benefit those children most in the long run is a solid education. It is the only answer to beaking the cycle of dependence, but it is really hard to educate a child whose parent doesn't care wether they are at school or not as long as they don't bother them. Don't paint people who are "trapped by the system" as innocent victims becuase I assure you that in the majority of cases they are not. They know exactly what they are doing and choose to continue doing so rather than making the real effort required to better their circumstances, which they are perfectly capable of donig. The recipients ARE part of the problem with the system, but no one wants to admit that. There HAS to be a change in attitude to break the cycle, and yes the majority of career welfare recipients are responsible for their own situation and should be held accountable. I will not apologize for stating what I know from first hand experience to be true, or make excuses for behavior that is inexcusable. I realize that it is often more palatable to paint them as innocent victims of circumstance, and I was apt to do the same thing, until I was shown first hand the reality of the situation.

And you really believe that the majority of people that receive aid are "career recipients"? What has this society come to when we assume that anyone that needs help is trying to cheat the system? I agree with you that education is needed to break the cycle, but then we complain about how much money the schools get and want to cut their funding if the teachers can't magically turn these kids around. We have become a society where the haves only care about themselves and don't give a damn about anyone else. Are there people that "cheat the system"? Absolutely! But does that mean that we shouldn't help those that are really in need? And who are we to judge who really "needs" the aid? It's amazing to me that we are all gung ho to help people in foreign countries when disaster strikes, but we are not willing to help our own citizens. We really have become a greedy society and it is going to be the downfall of this country.

 

[NY Disney fan]

And you really believe that the majority of people that receive aid are "career recipients"? What has this society come to when we assume that anyone that needs help is trying to cheat the system?

I hear what you are saying and I know where you are coming from but there are people out there who are:
-not disabled
- not poor
- skilled
- capable

Who collect welfare benefits, on purpose, because their mother/father had it before them and it is an easy out for them. The more kids they have the more $ they get which is why they remain single. Its the biggest loophole of them all.

 

[rhpools]

I guess personally I would not mind people taking advantage of the system, as much, if the over $400 I fork out every month for my corporate plan actually covered anything.

The government coverage... they pay no premium, no co pays and no deductibles.

We pay more money than we can afford for insurance and still have to come up with the copays and deductibles. What infuriates me even more is when the doctor says the money is due up front. They are doctors and are suppose to help people.

 

[princessmom29]

You are assuming that people are refusing to work, that is not always the case. As I have already said, if working for $300 a month is going to bring your income DOWN by $200 a month and you have kids to feed; guess what? You keep the food stamps and other assistance and turn down the job.

I find it sadly amusing that everyone seems to think that these folks on assistance are living so high on the hog. I can assure you that given an equal choice MOST (not all, but most) would not choose to continue living in the manner that government assistance allow them to.

As for the unemployement and continuing to receive it, have you ever tried to support a family for what you can make at McDonald's?? Full time is not even 40 hours a week. There is no way to support a family on that kind of pay. If I was getting unemployment and my only choice was that or McDonald's, I would choose whichever meant more money which is usually going to be unemployment. When you are in a week to week surival situation it is not about what is or is not beneath you but about having enough money coming in to survive on.

And you really believe that the majority of people that receive aid are "career recipients"? What has this society come to when we assume that anyone that needs help is trying to cheat the system? I agree with you that education is needed to break the cycle, but then we complain about how much money the schools get and want to cut their funding if the teachers can't magically turn these kids around. We have become a society where the haves only care about themselves and don't give a damn about anyone else. Are there people that "cheat the system"? Absolutely! But does that mean that we shouldn't help those that are really in need? And who are we to judge who really "needs" the aid? It's amazing to me that we are all gung ho to help people in foreign countries when disaster strikes, but we are not willing to help our own citizens. We really have become a greedy society and it is going to be the downfall of this country.

I am not assuming anything. I see it first hand EVERY DAY!!! Over and over I see the career recipient fro whom there is no financial benefit to work, and feels her or she is entitled to a living from the government and should not have to work for it. I am confronted daily with the children of these people who do not see the value of an education because they plan to do exactly as their parents are doing. No one needs an education to collect government money. I see the 14 year old preganant and having the baby on medicaid, and immediately signing up for her WIC, section 8, food stamps, and welfare. She is now set. When things get tight she will have another. I deal with it EVRY DAY, so you cannot tell me it doesn't exist, and it is not a HUGE problem. IT DOES AND IT IS.

I have been in a position to need help, and had to support a family on a part time, low wage jobs. We had 4-5 between the two of us. We got by. We worked a LOT and did without, but we got by. By God I never want to be there again. I am talking about people who don't care that they are leeching off of others or have any desire to be self sufficient. They make no effort to produce any income because they don't have to. Untill the system introduces some incentive to go to work, the cycle will continue because chidlren are being taught at home that this is the way to live. I have 16 year olds tell me every day that they have no intention of graduating or trying to get a job "because they won't get benefits". That is truly sad, and HAS to change. We can not continue to facilitate that kind of dependence.

 

[blanq]

I hear what you are saying and I know where you are coming from but there are people out there who are:
-not disabled
- not poor
- skilled
- capable

Who collect welfare benefits, on purpose, because their mother/father had it before them and it is an easy out for them. The more kids they have the more $ they get which is why they remain single. Its the biggest loophole of them all.

I agree with you that there are people who fit into the boxes you have described. But, I can tell you from 20 years of experience working with this system that I am really shocked by the number who do not seem capable. People who have obvious mental health issues, are low functioning, never obtained their GED, are chemically dependent, have adolescent work histories and skills, have significantly poor communication skills (sometimes it takes me a good long time to even figure out what I am being asked when talking on the phone with some of my customers because they CANNOT articulate it), have criminal records. I mean, if you were an employer, would you want to hire them, or would you pick a more qualified candidate?

And, as previously stated in another post people DO NOT get more cash assistance when they have additional children. PWRORA did away with that.

 

[shruley]

I haven't read the rest of these, but in Minnesota, once the baby is born, if you are living with the father of the baby his income counts. If you don't report him as being in the household or his income, you are commiting fraud. Plain and simple. If they are not living together, than to get public assistance they WILL persue him for child support. If she doesn't cooperate with them persuing child support her benefits will end. I have no idea what happens in other states, but that's not what the system was meant for!

 

[princessmom29]

I agree with you that there are people who fit into the boxes you have described. But, I can tell you from 20 years of experience working with this system that I am really shocked by the number who do not seem capable. People who have obvious mental health issues, are low functioning, never obtained their GED, are chemically dependent, have adolescent work histories and skills, have significantly poor communication skills (sometimes it takes me a good long time to even figure out what I am being asked when talking on the phone with some of my customers because they CANNOT articulate it), have criminal records. I mean, if you were an employer, would you want to hire them, or would you pick a more qualified candidate?

And, as previously stated in another post people DO NOT get more cash assistance when they have additional children. PWRORA did away with that.

they may not get more CASH, but they get more food stamps and an increased housing subsidy, effectively increasing their income.

 

[torinsmom]

I teach in an inner city high school where the reality is that 75% of our students are on free and reduced lunch. To qualify you must also qualify for public assistance. 50% of our students live in subsidized housing. 75% recieve food stamp benefits in their family. Less than 30% have both parents working full time. You do the math. It doesn't add up. We are not just talking about cash assistance here. There are so many other ways to milk the system, like only paying $78 a month for your apartment becuase the governmnet subsidized the rest. No cash in your hand, but my cash is going to pay for it.

I don't think its that way in every state. I don't even think it would be legal to say that someone not on gov't assistance doe not qualify for free/reduced lunch. I am sure if you get gov't assistance, you get free lunch, but you don't have to get assistance to qualify. Here, it is based on your income and there are plenty of families that qualify who have two parents working full-time. For a family of 4, the income threshhold for free/reduced lunch is $40,793.

The dad has insurance. Why on earth is he not stepping up and covering the child? The fact that you aren't married doesn't make you less responsible for your children.

How do we know he is NOT covering the child? When I was pregnant and qualified for Medicaid, I had insurance through my mom's plan. My mom's plan paid first and Medicaid paid the rest. If social services knows that he is the father of the kids, they will require him to cover the kids as the primary insurance. We don't know what kind of "welfare" the mom gets. She may not get Aid for Dependent Children; she may get food stamps, medicaid, WIC and things like that.

There are always "now hiring" signs up at the fast food places around here. There are jobs,at least here, for those willing to work. The problem is that it is not the job they want to have, so they choose to continue living off the system. I am all for helping those who ar working or trying to find work, but not those who have no problem taking a handout, but think that it is beneath them to say "would you like fries with that?" Highly educated people are having trouble finding work, not becasue there are nto minimum wage jobs out there but because they are verqualified for them. They cannot support thier current lifestyle on that kind of wage, and since unemployment is based off your previous salary, they are making more from the new "extended" unemployment than they would working. They will either have to take a lower wage job or go on the dole when that runs out.

The problem is, if you are getting $600/month to support your kids, plus medicaid, plus $500 food stamps, plus subsidized housing and free daycare, then you get a job at McD's and drop out of the assistance program, you will make maybe $1000/month, have to pay rent, day care, buy food, and pay for insurance and it is NOT enough to do that. Yes, maybe there is a daddy to pay child support, right? Well, my ex has a decent job at a hospital, and all I get is insurance and $225/month, which isn't even enough to buy food for my child. Most people on welfare do not have family to support them through this transition. This is why it becomes a cycle. Its very sad for everyone involved in the long run, especially the kids.

 

[princessmom29]

I don't think its that way in every state. I don't even think it would be legal to say that someone not on gov't assistance doe not qualify for free/reduced lunch. I am sure if you get gov't assistance, you get free lunch, but you don't have to get assistance to qualify. Here, it is based on your income and there are plenty of families that qualify who have two parents working full-time. For a family of 4, the income threshhold for free/reduced lunch is $40,793.



How do we know he is NOT covering the child? When I was pregnant and qualified for Medicaid, I had insurance through my mom's plan. My mom's plan paid first and Medicaid paid the rest. If social services knows that he is the father of the kids, they will require him to cover the kids as the primary insurance. We don't know what kind of "welfare" the mom gets. She may not get Aid for Dependent Children; she may get food stamps, medicaid, WIC and things like that.



The problem is, if you are getting $600/month to support your kids, plus medicaid, plus $500 food stamps, plus subsidized housing and free daycare, then you get a job at McD's and drop out of the assistance program, you will make maybe $1000/month, have to pay rent, day care, buy food, and pay for insurance and it is NOT enough to do that. Yes, maybe there is a daddy to pay child support, right? Well, my ex has a decent job at a hospital, and all I get is insurance and $225/month, which isn't even enough to buy food for my child. Most people on welfare do not have family to support them through this transition. This is why it becomes a cycle. Its very sad for everyone involved in the long run, especially the kids.

that income level is more than TWICE what it is here! It is not a requirement, but I would say that 99% of those that qualify for free and reduced lunch qualify for public assistance here because the income reqirments are so similar.

I realize that it is ecomonically better for some people to stay on welfare than to get a job, and that is the entire porblem. Until thier benefits are no longer more than they would make working, there is no motivation to work. a person should never be capable of supporting themselves long term on public assistance, unless they are disabled. It was meant as a short term stopgap, or an aid to struggling working families, not a means of sloe permanent support. If you can work, you should be working to contribute, and the system should make that necessary to survive.

 

[midwestdee]

The only way the career welfare people will be taken off the roles is to do away totally with WIC coupons, medicaid and welfare checks for single mothers. I understand the progressive point to look out for the helpless in our society - but we have been warned since Daniel Patrick Monihan began speaking out in the 1960's. Churches and private social agencies will need to pick up the slack. The only thing wrong with our public schools are the career free lunch families that have kids that are dumber than a box of rocks, disrespectful and disfunctional. They actually now have a special ed "diagnosis" of "oppositional defiant disorder". This is code for you are a little jerk that has never been taught manners. Look, you can't imagine what the average teacher has to put up with today. To those who say my proposals would "cause kids to suffer" - they are suffering now. This is the only way things would change one iota. The only people charities I give to are Boys Town (the kids have been taken away from their idiot parents) and the Salvation Army because they expect clients to work for the services they receive.

 

[Purseval]

To avoid putting the entire blame on single mothers there are also middle class or better people with grown children who scam the system just as badly or even worse. When I was living in New England there were even ads on the radio advertising the services of lawyers who would arrange for all of your assets to be transferred over to relatives. That way when you retired you could declare yourself indigent and receive government assistance and medical care while your savings were sheltered. "Why lose that vacation home you worked so hard for?" It was truly disgusting. But it just seems that one day the attitude became everyone is doing it, why not get mine?

 

[PrincessTeresa]

Who pays for our roads, teachers, police, etc.? Yeah, those same people. Us. Same as it is in other countries that have single payer systems. I think it is very feasible to have a single payer system and not bankrupt our country or compromise the quality of care.

My point exactly!!! But for everyone to have the same care, everyone should put in the same amount of $. But they don't. People want something for nothing. It's a vicious cycle.

 

[luvsJack]

I am not assuming anything. I see it first hand EVERY DAY!!! Over and over I see the career recipient fro whom there is no financial benefit to work, and feels her or she is entitled to a living from the government and should not have to work for it. I am confronted daily with the children of these people who do not see the value of an education because they plan to do exactly as their parents are doing. No one needs an education to collect government money. I see the 14 year old preganant and having the baby on medicaid, and immediately signing up for her WIC, section 8, food stamps, and welfare. She is now set. When things get tight she will have another. I deal with it EVRY DAY, so you cannot tell me it doesn't exist, and it is not a HUGE problem. IT DOES AND IT IS.

I have been in a position to need help, and had to support a family on a part time, low wage jobs. We had 4-5 between the two of us. We got by. We worked a LOT and did without, but we got by. By God I never want to be there again. I am talking about people who don't care that they are leeching off of others or have any desire to be self sufficient. They make no effort to produce any income because they don't have to. Untill the system introduces some incentive to go to work, the cycle will continue because chidlren are being taught at home that this is the way to live. I have 16 year olds tell me every day that they have no intention of graduating or trying to get a job "because they won't get benefits". That is truly sad, and HAS to change. We can not continue to facilitate that kind of dependence.

I agree that the system is broken. It was meant to help and it seriously hinders many that want to get out of it but do not see a way. There needs to be job training and education available and mandatory for the recipients. But, again, if their take home pay is less than the benefits they receive, they remain stuck.

I see how it works every day too and have lived within it myself. Believe me the 14 year old you mention is not "set" by any stretch of the imagination. Where exactly do you expect a 14 year old to get a job and support herself and her child? She is just a child herself and without someone to mentor her and help her understand what she needs to do to get out of the system, its not going to happen When she does reach adult age, will she have any kind of training or education to get a job? And, as I have already said, if the total amount she can make working is substantially less than what she is recieving what choice does she have?

 

[EclecticWAHM]

**Flamesuit on**

How about not having sex until you are married....And only getting married when you can support yourself without parental or goverment support as a general rule and having children when you can afford them with exceptions of course such as being disabled, laid off while actively looking forwork, etc. However laziness is not a disability orregardless of what my own brother might believe.

Wow, that would solve a whole slew of problems...

*deep breath*
Ok, I'm ready

No flames here. From your keyboard to God's ears....

 

[ssawka]

To avoid putting the entire blame on single mothers there are also middle class or better people with grown children who scam the system just as badly or even worse. When I was living in New England there were even ads on the radio advertising the services of lawyers who would arrange for all of your assets to be transferred over to relatives. That way when you retired you could declare yourself indigent and receive government assistance and medical care while your savings were sheltered. "Why lose that vacation home you worked so hard for?" It was truly disgusting. But it just seems that one day the attitude became everyone is doing it, why not get mine?

It depends on the circumstances. DW and I are currently in the process of setting up a special needs trust for DD, who has Down syndrome. The whole point of the special needs trust is to protect any assets that we may leave to her. Does that mean that we are trying to "cheat the system" by making sure that the state does not take away any assets that we may leave her?