State of Fast Pass Return (or replacement)

[New Mouse]

I don’t understand. If you’re reusing old Magic Bands, how are you paying for it each trip?

I guess I should clarify... if you are staying on property, they are part of the rate you are paying to stay at a Disney hotel.

 

[preemiemama]

But that's not exactly true. After Hours was never the same thing as EMH. Nighttime EMH never had the drastically reduced crowds or the exclusivity of After Hours, nor stuff like free snacks. EMM was never the same as morning EMH, and you can make the case that morning EMH has been extended from what it was pre-COVID.

And in those cases -- like with the resort parking -- we're talking about reduced benefits for resort guests. We're not talking about something that has been free to EVERYONE. It would be the equivalent of charging for the monorail. While they do have a history of changing things that could be considered for the worse, they don't have one of just sticking a price tag on something.

But there's the point. They're not just sticking a price tag on it. They turning FP into Genie Wishes- and charging for that "improvement".

 

[mercuryvenus]

But there's the point. They're not just sticking a price tag on it. They turning FP into Genie Wishes- and charging for that "improvement".

Whether they charge for it is up in the air. They very well could provide some number of wishes for free, and then charge for additional ones.

 

[glocker]

But that's not exactly true. After Hours was never the same thing as EMH. Nighttime EMH never had the drastically reduced crowds or the exclusivity of After Hours, nor stuff like free snacks. EMM was never the same as morning EMH, and you can make the case that morning EMH has been extended from what it was pre-COVID.

And in those cases -- like with the resort parking -- we're talking about reduced benefits for resort guests. We're not talking about something that has been free to EVERYONE. It would be the equivalent of charging for the monorail. While they do have a history of changing things that could be considered for the worse, they don't have one of just sticking a price tag on something.

Sorry, but this is just not true. EMH at night used to be for resort guests and WAS reduced crowds. The original system had you show up at a designated place with your resort ID to receive a wrist band. Those with the wristbands were allowed to stay until 1:00 AM (I believe). This is when Disney had significantly fewer resort options and it was awesome. My wife and I used to walk into every ride in the park with no wait.

Unfortunately, Disney have spent most of their money on overexpansion of resorts and shopping, with little-to-no expansion of the parks. This is why we are on the current situation. They NEED a 5th gate and have the resources to provide that; instead, they build hotel after hotel, shopping centers, re-theme existing rides and add a few "extras" like GE and Pandora, all the while selling us on that as new and improved. If they opened a 5th gate, FP+ arguments wouldn't be happening nearly as much.

 

[ChipnDale79]

Sorry, but this is just not true. EMH at night used to be for resort guests and WAS reduced crowds. The original system had you show up at a designated place with your resort ID to receive a wrist band. Those with the wristbands were allowed to stay until 1:00 AM (I believe). This is when Disney had significantly fewer resort options and it was awesome. My wife and I used to walk into every ride in the park with no wait.

Unfortunately, Disney have spent most of their money on overexpansion of resorts and shopping, with little-to-no expansion of the parks. This is why we are on the current situation. They NEED a 5th gate and have the resources to provide that; instead, they build hotel after hotel, shopping centers, re-theme existing rides and add a few "extras" like GE and Pandora, all the while selling us on that as new and improved. If they opened a 5th gate, FP+ arguments wouldn't be happening nearly as much.

This. Look at the number of hotel rooms added to the property since Animal Kingdom was added.
the value resorts consisted of All Star Sports and Movies. Music, Pop, and AoA didnt exist. then add in the other resorts that were added.

Disney needs a 5th gate and to add attractions to existing parks.

 

[whiporee]

Sorry, but this is just not true. EMH at night used to be for resort guests and WAS reduced crowds. The original system had you show up at a designated place with your resort ID to receive a wrist band. Those with the wristbands were allowed to stay until 1:00 AM (I believe). This is when Disney had significantly fewer resort options and it was awesome. My wife and I used to walk into every ride in the park with no wait.

Unfortunately, Disney have spent most of their money on overexpansion of resorts and shopping, with little-to-no expansion of the parks. This is why we are on the current situation. They NEED a 5th gate and have the resources to provide that; instead, they build hotel after hotel, shopping centers, re-theme existing rides and add a few "extras" like GE and Pandora, all the while selling us on that as new and improved. If they opened a 5th gate, FP+ arguments wouldn't be happening nearly as much.

So just to be clear: the problem is that they don’t have a fifth gate. Your issue with them is that they haven’t spent 10s of billions on a new park. yet you think the rest of the problem is they’ve increased hotel rooms, so I assume you think they should add this new gate without adding rooms or capacity.

What’s funny about these debates is they always seem to end up at “Disney should do more for free.” Longer hours, another park, more rides, more shows. None of that will help — the bigger the “value” the more people will come. The only sure fire way for WDW to reduce crowds is to keep raising prices until they reach a mass breaking point. Anything short of that is mitigation.

 

[whiporee]

But there's the point. They're not just sticking a price tag on it. They turning FP into Genie Wishes- and charging for that "improvement".

They've announced that? I must have missed it.

oh yeah, they haven’t. Haven’t announced Genie, haven’t announced there will be a charge. Yet you’re stating it as absolute fact.

 

[Jrb1979]

They've announced that? I must have missed it.

oh yeah, they haven’t. Haven’t announced Genie, haven’t announced there will be a charge. Yet you’re stating it as absolute fact.

If FP+ was coming back they would have done is already.

 

[dez1978]

Universal is tied to staying at the top tier of their resorts, not all of their resorts. I'm not sure that Disney could give something to only cash stays at DVC resorts and exclude points stays can they? And it seems like that would really hurt their DVC sales. Idk. I'm not up on all the rules of it, which I prob should be.

 

[dez1978]

What do you base that on? Seriously? What past behavior of Disney suggests that they have ever taken a perk that was free and decided to charge for it? They've cut some things back and they've reduced some services. But I can't think of a single thing that used to be free that they then charge for.

I take that back. Resort parking. I think there's a big difference between that and something as integral as Fast Passes.

But beyond that, I've got nothing. They've added parties, but they haven't gotten rid of nights -- and it's not like they were open until midnight every night, all the time. They've created viewing areas for fireworks, but they don't require everyone else to wear blinders. Even with DME -- they may end up discontinuing the service, but as far as I can see they haven't started offering the service for a fee. So what is creating this near certainty in your mind?

I can see being frustrated nothing has been announced and I can understand that people think the parks are rough right now. I just don't see why every single thing that happens has to be extrapolated to the worst possible answer with the worst possible motivations.

Magic Express... Granted, Mears will be the ones getting paid, but it is def taking away something that was free, and was a huge deal for a lot of families, and replacing it with something paid. No it hasn't started yet, but it's already been announced that it will be offered by Mears and you know it will not be free.

 

[CSLucas]

Universal is tied to staying at the top tier of their resorts, not all of their resorts. I'm not sure that Disney could give something to only cash stays at DVC resorts and exclude points stays can they? And it seems like that would really hurt their DVC sales. Idk. I'm not up on all the rules of it, which I prob should be.

You are correct - in order to do it, Disney would have to only give it to the hotel-side, no DVC properties. Technically (according to my understanding) every guest in a DVC property is staying on points regardless of whether they paid Disney cash because the whole building is leased by DVC. Cash-paying guests are just renting the points from Disney, the same as guests can rent points from other non-Disney DVC owners for cash. I can't see Disney destroying their ability to rent their owns points (or to get breakage income) just to keep DVC members from getting a perk.

 

[Grasshopper2016]

Just got back from a three-day trip. Overall, things were just about what I expected them to be. The lines were long (though Disney tended to inflate the posted wait times). Yes, most of the lines moved constantly, which is psychologically easier to handle. But they still took a long time! We waited 20-35 minutes for most rides, and 45-70 minutes for things like FOP, ToT, TT, and SDD. (Plus, 65 minutes for Kali River Rapids!) And we walked on to some rides either very early or very late in the day. There were a few rides that we simply never got to experience, since the lines were consistently massive and you have to make choices at rope drop.

As former refresh warriors, this was a big change from our past trips. We used to do at least twice as many rides, rarely waiting more than 10 minute for anything. And we used to sleep in a lot later.

We made the most of things, kept a positive attitude, and enjoyed our trip. But we definitely felt like we got a lot less for our money. Because, objectively, we did. I suppose that it's true that I spent less time looking at my phone. But (1) I was still frequently updating the Lines app to decide where to go next; and (2) I would gladly have buried my nose in my phone a bit more if it meant trading 45-90 minute waits for FPs.

I think it is highly unlikely that FP+ will come back in its former form, except maybe as a temporary stop-gap (though that too seems increasingly unlikely). If they were going to bring it back, they would have already. Nothing is stopping them.

I think that we will see a paid or hybrid system coming reasonably soon. Whether it is a good or a bad change depends, of course, entirely on the pricing and what you get for your money. After this trip, I am certainly open to paying extra if the value seems to be there. The new system may well be worse than FP+ --- especially for those of us who mastered it --- but it will probably be better than nothing, which is what Disney is currently giving us.

 

[preemiemama]

They've announced that? I must have missed it.

oh yeah, they haven’t. Haven’t announced Genie, haven’t announced there will be a charge. Yet you’re stating it as absolute fact.

Obviously you choose to believe differently. They haven't announced that Genie will be paid, but they have announced that it is coming. So, until we actually see it, I guess you're correct. However, there's a lot of noise from people who know what they're talking about that says there will be money involved.

Arguing with you about it is not going to change either of our minds, so I guess we just agree to disagree and then we'll see what happens when everything rolls out.

 

[SarahWI]

After this trip, I am certainly open to paying extra if the value seems to be there.

That in our minds is the key - if they oversell it for whatever reason (greed, demand, etc), then the value is lost because now everyone has FPs. Whatever system they move to, it needs to be worthwhile to buy it. A prime example are the old EMH’s: they were so packed with all the resort guests and good neighbor hotels that the crowds weren’t worth it.

Cash-paying guests are just renting the points from Disney, the same as guests can rent points from other non-Disney DVC owners for cash. I can't see Disney destroying their ability to rent their owns points (or to get breakage income) just to keep DVC members from getting a perk.

It would also, I suspect, limit their ability to sell DVC points. I can see them making a distinction for free FPS or wishes or whatever for blue card vs white card owners but not cutting DVC out entirely.

 

[ChipnDale79]

“Disney should do more for free.”

i dont think anyone has said that. nothing is free, we've actually been paying more for less over the past few years.

only way to change it, is to stop giving them money.

 

[Karin1984]

Obviously you choose to believe differently. They haven't announced that Genie will be paid, but they have announced that it is coming. So, until we actually see it, I guess you're correct. However, there's a lot of noise from people who know what they're talking about that says there will be money involved.

Arguing with you about it is not going to change either of our minds, so I guess we just agree to disagree and then we'll see what happens when everything rolls out.

With what is released now about the Genie app, I do not think the app itself will be paid for. Making dining reservations, checking wait times etc. will remain free, I think. I can see the option to get optimized touring plans to be a paid service. With that they can pull away guests from sites like Touring Plans.

 

[mercuryvenus]

I’m starting to plan for our November trip and am just operating on the assumption that no FP+/Genie app will be available.

What’s clear to me is that taking advantage of those extended evening hours is going to be critical for reducing wait times. It would be really nice if Disney would announce when those will be.

My tentative strategy is to reserve the most popular rides for those evening slots and try to get into each park at least once during an extended evening hours time slot. We’ll be taking our then 5 year old and the grandparents, so my thought is to do half-days in the park, go back to the hotel for swimming/relaxation, and then go back into whatever park is offering extended evening hours (on the days when that’s happening).

Then I want to shoot for the following rides during that time:

Epcot: Test Track, Frozen, Remy, Soarin’

MK: Mine Train, Jungle Cruise, Peter Pan

AK: Avatar, Everest

HS: Smugglers Run, Rock n Roller Coaster, Tower of Terror, Swirling Saucers, Runaway Railway, Slinky Dog, Toy Story Mania <— This park is by far the most difficult for me to figure out how to plan, because it has the most rides with crazy wait times. I know it’s almost certainly unrealistic to expect to get all this done in one extended evening hours day, so we might just have to suck it up and do a couple long waits during the day.

 

[mercuryvenus]

With what is released now about the Genie app, I do not think the app itself will be paid for. Making dining reservations, checking wait times etc. will remain free, I think. I can see the option to get optimized touring plans to be a paid service. With that they can pull away guests from sites like Touring Plans.

I don’t think they’re going to charge for optimizing plans. What I think they’ll charge for is additional wishes (aka FP+). I think everyone will get a certain number of wishes for free.

 

[CSLucas]

That in our minds is the key - if they oversell it for whatever reason (greed, demand, etc), then the value is lost because now everyone has FPs. Whatever system they move to, it needs to be worthwhile to buy it. A prime example are the old EMH’s: they were so packed with all the resort guests and good neighbor hotels that the crowds weren’t worth it.


It would also, I suspect, limit their ability to sell DVC points. I can see them making a distinction for free FPS or wishes or whatever for blue card vs white card owners but not cutting DVC out entirely.

I think they could only distinguish between white/blue if the perk was linked to a ticket purchase, not to the resort stay. If it is linked to the resort stay, they would have to give it to all DVC members regardless of membership status or else give it to nobody staying at the property since ownership interest isn't tiered. I think the only ways around giving it to resale owners would be too complicated for cash-paying guests who would also have to jump through all the hoops. But I think you are definitely right that it would destroy DVC sales if they tried to not give DVC properties the same benefits as their other Deluxe properties.

 

[mercuryvenus]

I think they could only distinguish between white/blue if the perk was linked to a ticket purchase, not to the resort stay. If it is linked to the resort stay, they would have to give it to all DVC members regardless of membership status or else give it to nobody staying at the property since ownership interest isn't tiered. I think the only ways around giving it to resale owners would be too complicated for cash-paying guests who would also have to jump through all the hoops. But I think you are definitely right that it would destroy DVC sales if they tried to not give DVC properties the same benefits as their other Deluxe properties.

Right. The whole point of DVC is to get access to Deluxe resorts and the perks that go along with them, at a discounted price. If they take away those perks, DVC is no longer worth it.