Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Reaction and Discussion *CONTAINS SPOILERS*

[PrincessWithABlaster]

I generally agree with you. TLJ absolutely smashes TFA when it came to cinematography. Not to say that TFA was shot poorly, but I really like the shots and angles Johnson used in this one.

Interesting. I really like the imagery in TFA. I thought the space battles were better, the shots inside the wrecked star destroyer were amazing (and evoked a lot of feeling) as were the panned out image of the downed AT-AT, the Apocalypse Now homage of TIEs in front of the sun, the x-wings coming across the lake at Maz’s, the imagery of the lightsaber battle in the snowy forest, and exploding Star Killer. All really well done, stick in the craw type images for me.

Crait was pretty. Red on black and white almost always is. And the hyperspace jump was a cool scene but as much for the use of sound as imagery for me. I can’t really think of anything else from TLJ that stood out. The lack of sweeping, epic images (accept for Crait) made TFA feel and look very small. Although that was maybe the point and intended to fit with Rey’s lineage. I definitely prefer the TFA cinematography.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Hmmm...guess I'll have to think about that...

Question though - when Star Wars was released, did it not launch a western movie going cultural revolution (assist to jaws) that changed the summer and product tie ins forever?

As in did it not run for over a year and then re-run after second release in 1978 due to popularity?

So would a 2 year run for a first of its kind make any chance of the darker empire to get close impossible?

Wouldn't the phantom menace/attack of the clones drop be more appropriate a comparision? And both those movies were bad and everyone seems
To say the force awakens was "good"?

Wouldn't a reason it's gonna go down 35% in a hyperinflated priced Hollywood world be that people aren't seeing it? They have to be convinced to go see/resee a new Star Wars?

...asking for a friend

You can use whatever comparison you want to justify your view that it is a horrible movie - clearly not everyone agrees but I guess you won't stop until we agree? Or until disney says "you know what? That SWRdtWD is right, The last jedi is terrible so let's just remove it from theaters, pretend it didn't exist and make a new one that matches what this poster wanted to see". Honestly, I just don't get your end game and what the point of posting negative post after negative post is

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Definitely not "worse" than force awakens...agree.

Though as baby boomers (largest generation in American history) Leave the workforce in droves...wouldn't that artificially depress the unemployment numbers? And I think I saw average wages are not up relative to inflation except where forced to be by regulation.

But they say that cutting taxes will give more money to everyone, don't they? I'm not an economist though

Let's be careful to keep politics out of this - don't want the thread to be shut down because of that

 

[SWRdtWD]

Let's be careful to keep politics out of this - don't want the thread to be shut down because of that

I apologize...I was talking economics...which is often too closely meshed. I'll adjust that.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Why was there a negative reaction? Was there something wrong with the movie itself? The cannon? The plot? Character development? Congruity with the other movies? Tone? Audience connection with the characters? Bad writing/direction?

My two cents: bits and pieces of many of those things. For me it didn’t net out to a thumbs down like it did with prequels — we still quite enjoyed it overall. Enough good to outweigh those things. But I can see how it wouldn’t be for some. And some of the criticism is silly — movie physics that have never been right in a SW film all of a sudden being unconscionable...

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Let's be careful to keep politics out of this - don't want the thread to be shut down because of that

I think these were pretty neutral statements about the economy. That CAN go off the rails, but this didn’t.

 

[KaptKaveman]

Why was there a negative reaction? Was there something wrong with the movie itself? The cannon? The plot? Character development? Congruity with the other movies? Tone? Audience connection with the characters? Bad writing/direction?

Is there an All of the above option?

Let's be careful to keep politics out of this - don't want the thread to be shut down because of that

Agree 100%, please don't go there.

You can use whatever comparison you want to justify your view that it is a horrible movie - clearly not everyone agrees but I guess you won't stop until we agree? Or until disney says "you know what? That SWRdtWD is right, The last jedi is terrible so let's just remove it from theaters, pretend it didn't exist and make a new one that matches what this poster wanted to see". Honestly, I just don't get your end game and what the point of posting negative post after negative post is

We are having a friendly discussion. We could flip it around and say the same thing about positive posts. As for what Disney should do, you can't really put the toothpaste back in the tube once it is out, but over time I think it will be apparent that this movie was a huge mistake. If the estimates are accurate 700 Million Dollars is alot of money. I would expect the third movie to drop below this one, that puts it in to just normal blockbuster range. That is not even factoring in loss of merchandise sales. What Disney SHOULD HAVE done was let Rian Johnson have his own Star Wars Trilogy and not force his into movie 8 of a 9 movie set. They SHOULD HAVE let the same person who wrote and directed Movie 7 and will be directing movie 9 direct and write movie 8. Simple really.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I apologize...I was talking economics...which is often too closely meshed. I'll adjust that.

Most of your post was fine but the comment about the tax cut (which is a politically divisive topic) heads in a bad direction I felt

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I think these were pretty neutral statements about the economy. That CAN go off the rails, but this didn’t.

I am just cautious about those things and the sarcastic comment about the tax cut I think could lead to "off the rails" fairly quickly

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Is there an All of the above option?



Agree 100%, please don't go there.



We are having a friendly discussion. We could flip it around and say the same thing about positive posts. As for what Disney should do, you can't really put the toothpaste back in the tube once it is out, but over time I think it will be apparent that this movie was a huge mistake. If the estimates are accurate 700 Million Dollars is alot of money. I would expect the third movie to drop below this one, that puts it in to just normal blockbuster range. That is not even factoring in loss of merchandise sales. What Disney SHOULD HAVE done was let Rian Johnson have his own Star Wars Trilogy and not force his into movie 8 of a 9 movie set. They SHOULD HAVE let the same person who wrote and directed Movie 7 and will be directing movie 9 direct and write movie 8. Simple really.

Maybe that is what they should have - but I think they wanted an edgier / more artistic director this to make the middle sort a darker with hopes of it being this trilogies "Empire" and early reviews were along this lines but obviously there is a portion of the fan base that didn't react positively to the direction it went in

I do think disney very much wanted to created their own "Star Wars" and move away from being so tied to the original trilogy - I think this did go in that direction but we shall see if that is good or bad in the long run ... they had to at some point but maybe would have been better to introduce that idea in this trilogy and then really go full bore with separate movies

It does fee like if this was Star Wars movies X, Y, and Z rather than parts 7, 8, and 9 of the existing story line at least some people would feel less negative about it

 

[umichigan10]

Interesting. I really like the imagery in TFA. I thought the space battles were better, the shots inside the wrecked star destroyer were amazing (and evoked a lot of feeling) as were the panned out image of the downed AT-AT, the Apocalypse Now homage of TIEs in front of the sun, the x-wings coming across the lake at Maz’s, the imagery of the lightsaber battle in the snowy forest, and exploding Star Killer. All really well done, stick in the craw type images for me.

Crait was pretty. Red on black and white almost always is. And the hyperspace jump was a cool scene but as much for the use of sound as imagery for me. I can’t really think of anything else from TLJ that stood out. The lack of sweeping, epic images (accept for Crait) made TFA feel and look very small. Although that was maybe the point and intended to fit with Rey’s lineage. I definitely prefer the TFA cinematography.

I really liked the montage when Rey was meditating and they showed all the things around the island as Luke was describing life and death etc. also that scene at the end when Luke passes on and you can see the two suns like it was Tatooine was really cool.

I’ll say this much I really understated how well TFA was shot with the scenes you brought up. Doesn’t change my opinion on TLJ but helps me appreciate TFA more

 

[PrincessWithABlaster]

I really liked the montage when Rey was meditating and they showed all the things around the island as Luke was describing life and death etc. also that scene at the end when Luke passes on and you can see the two suns like it was Tatooine was really cool.

I’ll say this much I really understated how well TFA was shot with the scenes you brought up. Doesn’t change my opinion on TLJ but helps me appreciate TFA more

Yes, you're right, I forgot Luke's scene with the suns, that definitely counts as a beautiful and memorable scene.

The two movies are shot differently. I wonder how much of that was intentional or just a matter of style.

Is there an All of the above option?
They SHOULD HAVE let the same person who wrote and directed Movie 7 and will be directing movie 9 direct and write movie 8. Simple really.

Someone else brought up Lost and it really has me thinking that having Abrams direct this would not have fixed the issue of mysteries brought up but not resolved in a way that addressed all the teases. He has a track record of going 'ooooh, shiny mystery' and then not knowing where or how to get out of the box that mystery created.

 

[Iowamomof4]

The hyperbole regarding this film has been over the top at times, on both sides. People saying it's the greatest Star Wars ever!! are nearly as annoying to me as those saying it ranks below The Holiday Special. Seriously? The Holiday Special? Have you watched it recently?! I can't even make it through the whole thing and I've tried twice to watch it. (to be clear, I don't think anyone on this thread has ranked this film below The Holiday Special, but someone I know on FB did and I had to quit listening at that point)

I'm not saying someone can't rank this film as their favorite in the series or as their least favorite, but to neither acknowledge the good in the film nor the bad is simply disingenuous in my book.

 

[SWRdtWD]

Most of your post was fine but the comment about the tax cut (which is a politically divisive topic) heads in a bad direction I felt

I understand...however I did reference an economic theory, not a political one.

I'm trying to learn...there seems to be a hard to pinpoint line between "good discussion" and "offensive" and the goal posts are obscured by the fog at lambeau (figuratively speaking). I'll try harder.

 

[umichigan10]

Yes, you're right, I forgot Luke's scene with the suns, that definitely counts as a beautiful and memorable scene.

The two movies are shot differently. I wonder how much of that was intentional or just a matter of style.



Someone else brought up Lost and it really has me thinking that having Abrams direct this would not have fixed the issue of mysteries brought up but not resolved in a way that addressed all the teases. He has a track record of going 'ooooh, shiny mystery' and then not knowing where or how to get out of the box that mystery created.

I agree with both points. I’m honestly sick of people branding JJ as some mythical messiah who could’ve saved this film when he was criticized and maligned for producing a rehash on these boards for the past two years. He’s not awful, but he’s notoriously close to the vest

 

[Iowamomof4]

Oh, and I have serious concerns about JJ's next iteration of Star Wars. I was thrilled when he signed on to do TFA because I thought what he did to reboot the Star Trek franchise was outstanding! Setting things up seems to be in his wheelhouse. Bringing stories to a satisfying conclusion? Not so much.

I do hope they let us know sooner rather than later what they're doing with Leia's character, ESPECIALLY if they end up recasting her (which I don't think they'll do, but who knows? ). I think giving us some time to come to terms with what will happen to her could help the audience be more accepting of it.

 

[SWRdtWD]

The hyperbole regarding this film has been over the top at times, on both sides. People saying it's the greatest Star Wars ever!! are nearly as annoying to me as those saying it ranks below The Holiday Special. Seriously? The Holiday Special? Have you watched it recently?! I can't even make it through the whole thing and I've tried twice to watch it. (to be clear, I don't think anyone on this thread has ranked this film below The Holiday Special, but someone I know on FB did and I had to quit listening at that point)

I'm not saying someone can't rank this film as their favorite in the series or as their least favorite, but to neither acknowledge the good in the film nor the bad is simply disingenuous in my book.

I agree with this.

There were tons of empire comparisons when it came out. That was fan zeal and looked out of tune almost immediately.

But no...not on the level of "Wookiee day" either.

The business aspects and whether disney makes moves as a correction - down the near road in their ever so sly way - is the key.
I think the criticism is gonna grow...and really effect digital and bluray sales. And lead to a drop for the potential take for 9.

Basically...i bet Johnson loses his movies. I'm sure it will be "his choice"...as always.

I do find disney to be treating this like fox and universal would - as a ten year tent pole franchise shot for international appeal...and not what it is: the core modern western market movie property. That's a costly longterm mistake.

I think all three movies could have been better:
1. Didn't need to reboot
2. Should have embraced rogue one and learned lesson...instead of downplaying it and airing dirty laundry in the Hollywood press prior to its release.
3. For this movie, get a story/screenwriter - an actual star wars fan, get editors (they apparently skipped that), and frankly a better director.

I would rank the disney 3 movies squarely in the middle. They don't eclipse the first set...they fix a lot of the prequel mistakes.

My take. Is that what they were shooting for in October of 2012?

 

[FCDub]

What Disney SHOULD HAVE done was let Rian Johnson have his own Star Wars Trilogy and not force his into movie 8 of a 9 movie set. They SHOULD HAVE let the same person who wrote and directed Movie 7 and will be directing movie 9 direct and write movie 8. Simple really.

This is such a silly argument. Episodes 4, 5 and 6 all had different directors and, to varying extents, writers. Episodes 1, 2 and 3 all had the same writer and director. We've seen how that turned out.

 

[KaptKaveman]

Someone else brought up Lost and it really has me thinking that having Abrams direct this would not have fixed the issue of mysteries brought up but not resolved in a way that addressed all the teases. He has a track record of going 'ooooh, shiny mystery' and then not knowing where or how to get out of the box that mystery created.

Don't want to make this a LOST discussion but I think the main problem with LOST was that the writers strike happened just as the show was getting going(maybe season 2) this is also what I think ruined the show HEROS. We gave up on LOST and HEROS in Season 2(maybe 3 for LOST) but I actually went back and binge watched both. I am really glad I did LOST, HEROS.... not so much. In this case it wasn't a writers strike they actually purposely decided to go with a different screenwriter/director for TLJ. They did the same with Harry Potter and it drove me in that instance as well. Why would you ever do that?

 

[FCDub]

Oh, and I have serious concerns about JJ's next iteration of Star Wars. I was thrilled when he signed on to do TFA because I thought what he did to reboot the Star Trek franchise was outstanding! Setting things up seems to be in his wheelhouse. Bringing stories to a satisfying conclusion? Not so much.

I do hope they let us know sooner rather than later what they're doing with Leia's character, ESPECIALLY if they end up recasting her (which I don't think they'll do, but who knows? ). I think giving us some time to come to terms with what will happen to her could help the audience be more accepting of it.

They've already said they are not digitally putting her in the next movie. They'll almost assuredly kill her off screen.