Standard Rate for Renting Points... and commercial/professional renters...

[Santa]

Also, the profile of the DVC renter - the customers we are talking about are by and large, in my impression, not Deluxe resort lovers looking for a price break, but bargain shoppers who will be happy staying at POR or CSR if they aren't getting a great deal. Especially the ones we get here (eBay or other venues may have a different profile). In some cases, they are comparing renting DVC points to the All-Stars. In other words, they aren't saying "I can save $500 on my BW stay by renting points" they are saying "I can get into the BW for about the same cost as POR" or "It will only cost us and extra $250 to upgrade to BC from POP if we rent points - that's a good deal." Yes, the upgrade in location and room is worth something to them, but its not worth as much - IMO - as some people would like to believe.

Very well stated - you hit the nail in the head IMO in terms of the profile of the "typical" DVC renter.

How ignorant of me to want to rent when I could have spent thousands of dollars on a DVC contract.

DVC is not Walmart. You can't just take it back and return it if it's not for you. Not everyone that rents is looking for a bargain basement deal.
I want to experience the DVC resorts and the difference's between DVC & cash before I spend that kind of money.
Do you buy a car without test driving it? No! So why spend as much money or more without a test drive?
Is DVC a better value than paying cash at the same resort? You betcha! Thats why there are over 100K members. Did all those members stay deluxe before buying into DVC? Pretty sure most did not.
I stay where I am comfortable. If I find POR suits my needs more than a DVC resort so be it. I like the availability of renting a DVC reservation and I am sure most of those 100K + members like the advantage of being able to rent thier points if they want or need.

 

[Anjelica]

How ignorant of me to want to rent when I could have spent thousands of dollars on a DVC contract.

DVC is not Walmart. You can't just take it back and return it if it's not for you. Not everyone that rents is looking for a bargain basement deal.
I want to experience the DVC resorts and the difference's between DVC & cash before I spend that kind of money.
Do you buy a car without test driving it? No! So why spend as much money or more without a test drive?
Is DVC a better value than paying cash at the same resort? You betcha! Thats why there are over 100K members. Did all those members stay deluxe before buying into DVC? Pretty sure most did not.
I stay where I am comfortable. If I find POR suits my needs more than a DVC resort so be it. I like the availability of renting a DVC reservation and I am sure most of those 100K + members like the advantage of being able to rent thier points if they want or need.

I think implying that those 100K+ members may be "ignorant" because we purchased DVC contracts vs. renting is inaccurate.

There are several folks who have indeed purchased DVC without actually staying in a DVC resort - for example myself. Everytime I have visited Disney I have stayed in Deluxe therefore owning DVC made sense for me.

The "typical" DVC owner tends to be someone who would normally stay at a deluxe Disney hotel and tends to go often to WDW. Therefore it makes logical financial sense to purchase DVC instead of always purchasing rack rates, etc.

As far as what crisi stated and my support of crisi's statement of a "typical" DVC renter - I stand by that. For the most part that is what a "typical" DVC renter is/does. Again note the quotations around "typical" as this won't be the case for every single person or every circumstance.

 

[Santa]

I think implying that those 100K+ members may be "ignorant" because we purchased DVC contracts vs. renting is inaccurate.

I said "How ignorant of me". No implications.

 

[DISDVCER]

This may have been covered ad nauseum before but here I go anyway

I just got my statement telling me what the maint. fees are going to be for this year at Boardwalk. I know that they are going to go up every year but I believe this is the 3rd year in a row that they have gone up by at least 10%.

I typically try to rent out at least enough points to cover the cost of my fees each year. With this increase I'm wondering if other members that rent their points would consider a rate change to reflect our higher costs.

Moving from the standard $10 a point to $11 or $12 per point isn't going to ruin our chances of renting (we are still well below what Disney is getting). Most of my renters are looking for 45-75 points. The new pricing would cost them an extra $100 on average. It isn't going to break them but will definately offset our extra expense for a while longer.

One thing that it might help with is thinning the herd so to speak. In my last round of point offerings I must have gotten 20 PM's the first day of potential buyers. I was only able to help 3 of them before I ran out of points but I now believe that if I had asked $12 per point I would have gotten a third of the responses and still rented all of the points, especially if I wasn't being undercut by other owners.

Ok, I'll relinquish the soapbox... Don't worry, I'm a firefighter so feel free to flame on, I can take it

Tell me what you guys think...

Joshua

---------------------------------

I edited the title to reflect a natural progression in what this topic has become about...

The standard rate per point should be no less than $25 per point with annual rate increases inline with the annual rate increases of the individual resorts.

 

[crisi]

How ignorant of me to want to rent when I could have spent thousands of dollars on a DVC contract.

DVC is not Walmart. You can't just take it back and return it if it's not for you. Not everyone that rents is looking for a bargain basement deal.
I want to experience the DVC resorts and the difference's between DVC & cash before I spend that kind of money.
Do you buy a car without test driving it? No! So why spend as much money or more without a test drive?
Is DVC a better value than paying cash at the same resort? You betcha! Thats why there are over 100K members. Did all those members stay deluxe before buying into DVC? Pretty sure most did not.
I stay where I am comfortable. If I find POR suits my needs more than a DVC resort so be it. I like the availability of renting a DVC reservation and I am sure most of those 100K + members like the advantage of being able to rent thier points if they want or need.

I'm not sure I get your point - or how it refers to my comment. I'm saying that they typical profile of renters, IMO and from what I've seen, is that they aren't Deluxe resort guests looking to save a little money, but are mostly moderate resort guests looking to upgrade without spending more money. That impacts the price DVC members can get for their points. I'm not making any comments at all on who purchases DVC. Nor am I making any judgement on either people who rent points from members, nor members who rent points.

There are lots of other profiles as well - and some people no doubt are Deluxe resort lovers looking to save a little cash (and, from what has been posted here, these are the people most likely to be disappointed when they discover the the timeshare side of the house is run a little differently). Some people are trying before buying. Some people are looking for a way to put a larger family in a room without busting the bank. But, from watching the rent/trade board the little bit I do, watching what is posted here, and watching comments on the resort board, family board, and budget board - I think that I'm right on the typical profile.

The profile is a factor is what the market will bear for price - which is what this thread is about. If DVC points were overwhelmingly rented by people willing to pay $300 plus tax a night for a BC studio, you'd be able to charge more than if they are overwhelmingly rented by people who are willing to pay $150 a night at CBR or if you were looking at people who were overwhelmingly looking at rooms in the $100 a night range. If they were primarily rented by "try before you buy" types - we'd have a huge supply and probably not much demand and the price would be fairly low.

 

[dianeschlicht]

I'm not sure I get your point - or how it refers to my comment. I'm saying that they typical profile of renters, IMO and from what I've seen, is that they aren't Deluxe resort guests looking to save a little money, but are mostly moderate resort guests looking to upgrade without spending more money. That impacts the price DVC members can get for their points. I'm not making any comments at all on who purchases DVC. Nor am I making any judgement on either people who rent points from members, nor members who rent points.

There are lots of other profiles as well - and some people no doubt are Deluxe resort lovers looking to save a little cash (and, from what has been posted here, these are the people most likely to be disappointed when they discover the the timeshare side of the house is run a little differently). Some people are trying before buying. Some people are looking for a way to put a larger family in a room without busting the bank. But, from watching the rent/trade board the little bit I do, watching what is posted here, and watching comments on the resort board, family board, and budget board - I think that I'm right on the typical profile.

The profile is a factor is what the market will bear for price - which is what this thread is about. If DVC points were overwhelmingly rented by people willing to pay $300 plus tax a night for a BC studio, you'd be able to charge more than if they are overwhelmingly rented by people who are willing to pay $150 a night at CBR or if you were looking at people who were overwhelmingly looking at rooms in the $100 a night range. If they were primarily rented by "try before you buy" types - we'd have a huge supply and probably not much demand and the price would be fairly low.

Very well said!

 

[Deb & Bill]

Is DVC a better value than paying cash at the same resort? You betcha! Thats why there are over 100K members. Did all those members stay deluxe before buying into DVC? Pretty sure most did not.
I stay where I am comfortable. If I find POR suits my needs more than a DVC resort so be it. I like the availability of renting a DVC reservation and I am sure most of those 100K + members like the advantage of being able to rent thier points if they want or need.

So, Santa, are you a member??? Where did you get your data that most members did not stay in deluxe before they purchased? You say that you stay where you are most comfortable. My take on the issue is that most members stay because they like the comfort AND deluxe accomodations of DVC. There are a lot of members like us who prefer to stay in a one bedroom or larger because the studio is too much like a hotel room. Why pay the cash I'm paying to just stay in a hotel room?

If you talk to most DVC members, I don't think they are members because of the value, but because of the deluxe accomodations. Most of us look at the prepaid vacation, not at the savings. I'm not saving anything at all, but in actuality spending a bunch more.

And I know of plenty of members who have no plans ever to rent out their reservations. When we bought it was stressed that DVC is for family vacations and not to be used as an investment. I think some DVC guides are pushing the "rental opportunities" too much and not stressing the family vacation aspect. Of course, the price has gone up a lot since we bought in.

And I agree with Crisi that the average person posting on the R/T Board to get a reservation is not the typical DVC member, but a Value or Mod traveler who has found they can get the deluxe for just a little cash. Otherwise, why would they only rent Sun-Thur? Why would they offer as little as $8 a point? Why do they bring up that they can get the All Stars for $X and would like to get the DVC for the same or less? They want a 2 bedroom for the price of two values. When you tell them what it is going to cost, they back off.

 

[rinkwide]

...moderate resort guests looking to upgrade...

...Deluxe resort lovers looking to save a little cash...

Why do we need to label people as either Moderate or Deluxe? It's actually quite demeaning if you think about it. Look, each one of us shares the common bond - a profound love for The Mouse. Down deep, Walt Disney World Resort guests really are all the same (except those filthy All-Stars people).

 

[crisi]

Why do we need to label people as either Moderate or Deluxe? It's actually quite demeaning if you think about it. Look, each one of us shares the common bond - a profound love for The Mouse. Down deep, Walt Disney World Resort guests really are all the same (except those filthy All-Stars people).

Is it demeaning? Gee, I never thought of it as demeaning. I figured what we were doing was classing resorts based on affordability - and likewise their guests on what their budget permits. I drive a Jetta. I don't find it demeaning that I don't drive an Audi - I'd love to, but it isn't in my budget.

I suppose we could class all WDW guests as being able to stay in suites, but it wouldn't change the reality that some of us are on budgets when we vacation - and some of those budgets permit spending more or less on accomodations.

 

[aclov]

I purchased sight unseen so had never stayed at a DVC resort. I purchased because of the accomodations and not to have to worry about rising hotel room prices. Like someone else called it, for me it's a "pre-paid vacation". I have rented before but only because I wasn't planning on using my points, not to make a business out of it.

 

[twinme]

I don't often reply to post, but having been a "renter" this particulat post bothers me....somehow in my idealism I imagined renting points actually helping out the "owner" and me. Guess this "cow" has been lucky to fing wonderful owners....I hadn't fully realized the "business" side of the timeshare owner. Funny, I thought it was for fun and vacation.

 

[twinme]

Thought I sounded a bit harsh on my reply....sorry. The cost of going to Disney is getting HIGH, I do thank you "owners" for giving me the chance to experience it.

 

[PinkTink63]

Thought I sounded a bit harsh on my reply....sorry. The cost of going to Disney is getting HIGH, I do thank you "owners" for giving me the chance to experience it.

We always stayed at moderates with a code until I found out about DVC. I had been hearing about DVC for years but really never checked into it, until the year we rented from owners! Now we are owners! So thank goodness for us that someone needed to rent out their points on year!

 

[crisi]

I don't often reply to post, but having been a "renter" this particulat post bothers me....somehow in my idealism I imagined renting points actually helping out the "owner" and me. Guess this "cow" has been lucky to fing wonderful owners....I hadn't fully realized the "business" side of the timeshare owner. Funny, I thought it was for fun and vacation.

There are some owners who are renting because they can't make use of their own points - they might rent out their points one year out of every ten. Maybe they want to go to Hawaii and can't find a DVC trade they like. Maybe they've fallen on hard times and can't afford airfare and tickets this year.

Then there are owners who own as a business to rent points.

Sometimes, these two motivations conflict - particularly when you have owners whose buy in price was less than $60 and have a much smaller cost basis for their points - and very little motivation to do much more than cover dues or the cost of a cruise a point competing with people who bought recently near $100 a point and bought as a business.

However, if you are simply renting points because you can't use yours this year - most would still rather rent 200 points for $12 than for $10 - that's an extra $400 in my pocket. Would you give $400 to a stranger out of the goodness of your heart - so they can have a fun vacation? As an owner I'd want that $400 in my pocket so I can have fun on my vacation. If I'm renting due to hard times, I definately want that $400. Since most people who rent say $12 is easily doable, non members aren't doing anyone any favors renting non-distressed points for $10. Members who choose to rent for $10 are doing you a great favor, or they don't understand the value of their own points, or the extra $1-2 a point is meaningless money to them.

Now, this applies to non-distressed points. If I have points that are about to expire, and I can get $7 for them last minute, you are doing me a huge favor - taking them off my hands and covering dues for them. But distressed points are the exception in the point rental market.

Is this a business? - well, money is changing hands. Ever have a garage sale? Do you let your best things go for half their marked price the first morning of the garage sale to do strangers a favor? People generally act to maximize their own utility.

I don't believe in price fixing - if someone wants to rent you their points for $6 - more power to them. And I don't rent my own points - we have enough for ourselves right now and a list of friends we'd be happy to give our points to if we can't use them. My interest is more academic - this is a facinating market and facinating economics.

 

[salmoneous]

Since most people who rent say $12 is easily doable, non members aren't doing anyone any favors renting non-distressed points for $10.

There is a difference between doable and "easily doable". I believe people can get $12 (or more!) for their points, but it won't be as easy as getting $10 or $11.

There will always be lots of people renting <100 points who would rather have an easier renting experience than a few extra bucks in their pocket. And other people willing to put in the effort to get every dime they can. Ain't the free market great?

 

[crisi]

There is a difference between doable and "easily doable". I believe people can get $12 (or more!) for their points, but it won't be as easy as getting $10 or $11.

There will always be lots of people renting <100 points who would rather have an easier renting experience than a few extra bucks in their pocket. And other people willing to put in the effort to get every dime they can. Ain't the free market great?

Yep, which is why I'm amused at the lobbying for higher prices. You can't control what other people's points rent for, and with different motivations, there will always be someone willing to go "below market" for the ease of a quick rental (or maybe even just to see if they can't cause the profiteers a little consternation). It does seem that over the past year or so that the $10 standard has been moving towards and $11 or $12 standard. Which makes sense - as twinme said, Disney is getting more expensive.

On the other hand, the expectation that there is a great deal to be had on the part of renters doesn't seem productive to me either - and I notice a lot of people who want to rent points below market who don't seem get a bite on their offers. Perhaps they are being flooded with PMs though.

 

[UConnJack]

I think implying that those 100K+ members may be "ignorant" because we purchased DVC contracts vs. renting is inaccurate.

There are several folks who have indeed purchased DVC without actually staying in a DVC resort - for example myself. Everytime I have visited Disney I have stayed in Deluxe therefore owning DVC made sense for me.

The "typical" DVC owner tends to be someone who would normally stay at a deluxe Disney hotel and tends to go often to WDW. Therefore it makes logical financial sense to purchase DVC instead of always purchasing rack rates, etc.

As far as what crisi stated and my support of crisi's statement of a "typical" DVC renter - I stand by that. For the most part that is what a "typical" DVC renter is/does. Again note the quotations around "typical" as this won't be the case for every single person or every circumstance.

You know, while I am more inclined to agree with the profile of a DVC renter, I am less convinced of your assessment of a "typical" DVC owner. I am one of those moderate/value resort guests who saw DVC ownership as an economical upgrade.

I've never done polls before and am not sure how, but I would be interested if someone else put out some polls out to owners and renters to actually see what "typical" actually is (at least within the DIS realm), rather than pulling assumptions out of our ****.

 

[UConnJack]

The biggest reason for renting out points for me is to pay cash for non-DVC vacations I want to take. It's well known here that the real value of DVC is staying at the DVC resorts, and while trading out is convenient and sometimes equitable depending on the trade, it is usually better financially to rent your "prepaid vacation" points and use cash for your non-DVC vacations. Heck, since I go to HHI for a week around New Years every year, I don't even use points for that anymore. It's much cheaper to rent points and use the cash to reserve with a DVC cash discount that time of year (and using the difference toward airfare!) Is this "commercial” renting if I do it every year for HHI, and every few years for a non-DVC vacation? Maybe, if you take "commercial" in the strict sense of the word, but I certainly hope this is not the kind of renting that DVC and other owners find offensive. Not that I would stop anyway........

Basically, if an owner buys DVC with the primary intention of Disney vacations, but (even if somewhat frequently) rents out points for non-DVC vacations, rents because they can't use them that year, or rents some to cover dues, I have no burn. Even spec renting of prime times doesn't bother me too much in this context. They are your points, you should have a right to maximize their value.

However, those who bought DVC with the primary intention of renting out for profit, with no or limited use by themselves, these are what I consider "commercial renters" and support DVC's "effort" to curb.

 

[Anjelica]

You know, while I am more inclined to agree with the profile of a DVC renter, I am less convinced of your assessment of a "typical" DVC owner. I am one of those moderate/value resort guests who saw DVC ownership as an economical upgrade.

I've never done polls before and am not sure how, but I would be interested if someone else put out some polls out to owners and renters to actually see what "typical" actually is (at least within the DIS realm), rather than pulling assumptions out of our ****.

Although I am confused by your inclination to agree with the profile of a DVC renter that crisi presented, although there are no polls or scientific data to back up that statement, but disagree with my assessment of a "typical" DVC owner because of a lack of polls or scientific data.

My description of what a "typical" DVC owner could very well be 100% wrong and yes you don't have to agree at all (obviously not). My assessment is based upon several years of being on this board and in talking with many DVC owners. We all had a common thread which met the "typical" DVC owner.

In terms of your particular profile/situation I am also confused as you stated you were a regular user of value/moderate who bought into DVC as an economical upgrade to deluxe (parapharsing there). However, in your next posting you state that you rent out your points because its cheaper to pay cash say at HHI. In that case how was purchasing DVC an economical upgrade other than renting out the points?

 

[crisi]

You know, while I am more inclined to agree with the profile of a DVC renter, I am less convinced of your assessment of a "typical" DVC owner. I am one of those moderate/value resort guests who saw DVC ownership as an economical upgrade.

I've never done polls before and am not sure how, but I would be interested if someone else put out some polls out to owners and renters to actually see what "typical" actually is (at least within the DIS realm), rather than pulling assumptions out of our ****.

I'd say that DVC owners are split between people who were staying in Deluxes that want to save money, people who were staying in Moderates that saw an economical upgrade, people who wanted a condo like accomodations (yeah! Kids in another room!) and the completely emotional "own Disney" or even more emotional "purchase during vacation high." And yes, people who purchased because they felt they could make a profit renting points. Most people begin looking into DVC to save money, but most owners don't save money - most of us are upgrading in some fashion or another - either the resort or the room type or the frequency of our trips. In other words, its not clear to me at all that there is a typical profile that motivates buy in, nor is is clear to me that years after the fact most owners would be able to properly identify their own motives (i.e. poll your heart out, I wouldn't trust the answers, nor would this particular self selecting sample mean much). Had you asked me when I was signing on the dotted line, I'd have said "save money." Now, years later, its "affordably treat family and friends" and "have kids sleep in a different room." I'd even venture to guess that the 'typical' motivation probably has variation on which resort you choose as home - people buying BCV currently at $100 a point on the resale market probably have a very different profile than someone who purchased OKW ten years ago.