Sports: Deflate-Gate

[FlightlessDuck]

No theory, just a matter of doing it (not denying it wasn't done) before or after inspection. If their game balls were presented as "proper" for inspection then deflated after the fact, then shame on them. If they were presented that way and approved for play, then shame on the ref's and the league. No different than any other team/player that alter their game balls to their preference (like Aaron Rogers).

According to the NFL, the balls were properly checked. This, of course, is the same NFL that swears it didn't see the elevator Rice tape. Of course, there's a report that backs them up, but still, they aren't the bastions of honesty.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...-properly-checked-before-colts-patriots-game/

 

[Geoff_M]

No different than any other team/player that alter their game balls to their preference (like Aaron Rogers).

Initially inflating the balls prior to inspection prior the game is not "altering" them. "Altering" would be the act of changing them after-the-fact. To my knowledge, no one has found comments from Rodgers that they've monkeyed with the balls in order to alter them by re-inflating the Packers game balls.

 

[TAX GUY]

According to the NFL, the balls were properly checked. This, of course, is the same NFL that swears it didn't see the elevator Rice tape. Of course, there's a report that backs them up, but still, they aren't the bastions of honesty.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...-properly-checked-before-colts-patriots-game/

Thanks for that link. According to sources..... that's all we can go with for now. And with that, it looks like the balls passed and were later deflated by an average of 2 psi.

Initially inflating the balls prior to inspection prior the game is not "altering" them. "Altering" would be the act of changing them after-the-fact. To my knowledge, no one has found comments from Rodgers that they've monkeyed with the balls in order to alter them by re-inflating the Packers game balls.

My reply was BEFORE the above quote and article. I had not seen anything before that article that indicated they were in fact deflated AFTER inspection. The assumption now is that they were in fact regulation and at some point after inspection, they were deflated by an average of 2 psi.

 

[AnAmericanInDisney]

Do the bookies have to pay if there was cheating/game fixing?

 

[TAX GUY]

In light of good sportsmanship, being a Patriots fan and to show those participating in this discussion, I've changed my avatar accordingly. I'll take my lumps...

 

[declansdad]

The Patriots are a good team. They don't need to cheat so I don't know why they continue to do so. It doesn't matter if the Colts would have lost the game anyway. (Which sadly I believe they would have lost regardless of the deflated balls). What matters is that the Patriots cheated. Period!

Not a Pats fan but I do cheer for them every now and then but it has yet to be proven that they cheated. All we know is the balls were under-inflated after the game.

 

[sam_gordon]

[/B]

Not a Pats fan but I do cheer for them every now and then but it has yet to be proven that they cheated. All we know is the balls were under-inflated after the game.

No, the balls were under-inflated at half time.

According to Ben Volin of the Boston Globe, game officials discovered the issue at halftime.

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/1/20/7864117/patriots-deflated-footballs-nfl-new-england-bill-belichick

As mentioned one of these two things happened:
1) The balls were under inflated at inspection, but still "passed" (1 or 2 maybe, but 11 out of 12?).
2) The balls were properly inflated at inspection, and somehow by halftime had lost 2psi.

I guess 11 balls could have had leaks, or a weather change only affected those balls (remember, the Colts had their own also that didn't have a problem keeping air). OR, someone intentionally deflated them.

The rule is the balls need to be properly inflated. If someone intentionally deflated them, doesn't that break the rule? And isn't someone who breaks a rule "cheating"?

 

[jdb in AZ]

No, the balls were under-inflated at half time.


The rule is the balls need to be properly inflated. If someone intentionally deflated them, doesn't that break the rule? And isn't someone who breaks a rule "cheating"?

The NFL hasn't determined who was actually cheating (tho I think it's obvious.)

That said, I'm still cheering for the Patriots over the Sea Chickens. Just not a fan of Pete Carroll.

 

[declansdad]

No, the balls were under-inflated at half time.

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/1/...ated-footballs-nfl-new-england-bill-belichick

As mentioned one of these two things happened:
1) The balls were under inflated at inspection, but still "passed" (1 or 2 maybe, but 11 out of 12?).
2) The balls were properly inflated at inspection, and somehow by halftime had lost 2psi.

I guess 11 balls could have had leaks, or a weather change only affected those balls (remember, the Colts had their own also that didn't have a problem keeping air). OR, someone intentionally deflated them.

The rule is the balls need to be properly inflated. If someone intentionally deflated them, doesn't that break the rule? And isn't someone who breaks a rule "cheating"?

Sorry half-time. They still haven't offered any proof as to how this was done in full view of a stadium full of people and television cameras.

I'm not saying they didn't cheat but until that information comes out, you can't say they cheated, Period.

 

[Cogswel_Cogs]

I can't see how people say it does not effect the game. Any lead effects the game so dramatically in the way a team plays. In bad weather trying to protect a qb as well as throw a legal ball is incredibly hard.
And if little is done does that mean coaches will weigh if winning playoff game is worth possibility of losing a couple of drafts pick.

 

[sam_gordon]

Sorry half-time. They still haven't offered any proof as to how this was done in full view of a stadium full of people and television cameras.

Who watches the ball boys? Also, it's possible when the balls were brought onto the field they were already deflated. Who says they have to be deflated on the field? I'm pretty sure officials check the balls in their locker room.

I'm not saying they didn't cheat but until that information comes out, you can't say they cheated, Period.

Do you have another possibility other than what I mentioned up thread?
To me, it's highly unlikely the officials didn't notice 11/12 balls were under inflated during inspection, so I'm ruling that out in my mind.

So if they WERE correct at inspection, either the balls deflated on their own (leak, weather, other?), which is unlikely, or someone deflated them intentionally.

If someone deflated them intentionally, you don't consider that "cheating"?

 

[FlightlessDuck]

In light of good sportsmanship, being a Patriots fan and to show those participating in this discussion, I've changed my avatar accordingly. I'll take my lumps...

Sorry, man. It's got to suck.

 

[Geoff_M]

Sorry half-time. They still haven't offered any proof as to how this was done in full view of a stadium full of people and television cameras.

OK, let's test this theory. Each team has 12 game balls. Where do they keep all of them during the game? Since they are in "full view" of people and cameras it should be an easy question to answer, right? Heck, I actually worked as credentialed media at my first NFL game this season assisting a team photographer, and I don't have the foggiest idea other than I know that the local official wearing the with the "K" tabard keeps a couple of them and rotates them with the officials, but I have no idea where the rest of them are or if they are rotated with the other 10 or so balls. And quite frankly, I don't think there's any rules that would prevent someone from the team from pumping air into a ball that might be found to have lost some pressure as long as it remains "in spec".

 

[bcla]

Have to assume that you never played the game at an organized level. In wet playing conditions, a less inflated ball is easier for the ball carriers to control. The ball can be lightly squeezed, giving an advantage to the ball carrier. Kickers prefer max limit inflation, as the ball carries further and is tougher for returners to catch.

Balls designated for kicking are prepared by the officials. They arrive at the stadium brand new, and are marked with a "K" (not kosher I suppose since it's pigskin). I don't think they ever leave the custody of the officials crew until each ball is placed on the field.

In college football each team brings its own balls for regular season games to be used when the team is on offense. It may be different for bowl games. It's interesting because each team choose its own manufacturer and model, and most of these balls are identified with the team logo.

 

[Geoff_M]

In light of good sportsmanship, being a Patriots fan and to show those participating in this discussion, I've changed my avatar accordingly. I'll take my lumps...

I'll give you credit for keeping your sense of humor!

 

[sam_gordon]

Here's the "rule":

Ball
The home club shall have 36 balls for outdoor games and 24 for indoor games available for testing with a pressure gauge by the referee two hours prior to the starting time of the game to meet with League requirements. Twelve (12) new footballs, sealed in a special box and shipped by the manufacturer, will be opened in the officials’ locker room two hours prior to the starting time of the game. These balls are to be specially marked with the letter "k" and used exclusively for the kicking game.

Source: http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/ball

 

[Geoff_M]

Balls designated for kicking are prepared by the officials. They arrive at the stadium brand new, and are marked with a "K" (not kosher I suppose since it's pigskin). I don't think they ever leave the custody of the officials crew until each ball is placed on the field.

In college football each team brings its own balls for regular season games to be used when the team is on offense. It may be different for bowl games. It's interesting because each team choose its own manufacturer and model, and most of these balls are identified with the team logo.

When I was at Indiana, one of the football student team managers lived on my dorm floor, his goal was to manage to "procure" one team game ball from every Big 10 school (back when there were really 10!) before he graduated.... he met the goal.

 

[bcla]

Rodgers said he likes to push the "maximum allowed". And then lets the ref take air out if they are too filled.

So the Packers give the refs the balls after they over inflate them and let the refs fix them if the refs feel they are over the 13.5 psi max. And, since Rodgers complains that the refs do, indeed, remove air, obviously the balls are getting inspected.

Instead of, you know, taking air out after they are inspected to go under the minimum.

Aaron Rodgers said that he liked them on the high side since he has relatively big hands and prefers a pumped up ball because he feels it handles better. However, there's been no word that the Packers have been getting anyone to sneak in a pump to get them harder after they've been inspected.

I WANT TO PUMP.....YOU UP!

 

[Geoff_M]

I WANT TO PUMP.....YOU UP!

OK... now that's funny!

 

[sam_gordon]

When I was at Indiana, one of the football student team managers lived on my dorm floor, his goal was to manage to "procure" one team game ball from every Big 10 school (back when there were really 10!) before he graduated.... he met the goal.

I was a team manager for a 1-AA school (now FCS). My "game day" assignment for my first two years was ball boy. That was before the school logos got put on the balls though.