Spinoff: Marriage, when do you know it is over?

[The Mystery Machine]

Thank you everybody for your input. I believe @The Mystery Machine remembers the discussion from a while back under a pseudonym.

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=3288440

It has been a total rollercoaster on the health part, he has had more surgeries since then. He cannot use the walker anymore, he is (temporarily) having to use a wheelchair now. However, the doctor says he should be able to walk again when things get healed up. He still has to have more surgery first. The doctor says it is just going to take time. Keeping circulation going and blood sugar under control is essential. This is a thing he is fighting me about. He won't check the blood sugar, he binges. He finds "bad" food that is hidden (and hidden well) in the house and eats it. He snoops while I am gone, he found some cookies I had buried in a place I thought nobody would ever find them, and ate the whole thing.

I have other places I can "stay", but the big problem is that there is nobody else to take care of him. He has alienated our other "resources". His behavior has caused them to say, nope I am not gonna mess with this. He is completely dependent on me (and my family) to do for him. His family is not too helpful, they live a little ways away and they just aren't interested in "pitching in".

If you have other places to stay, I would ask the parties if you could "spend the night" on occasion until you get direction from your lawyer as to your next steps.

You are in desperate need of a "safe zone" where you can decompress, get your ducks in a row, and your thoughts.

I would highly recommend some counseling for yourself so you can sort this out with a neutral party who is not under the same stress.

It is going to be a balancing act to extract yourself from this marriage considering the health of you spouse.

You can do it however it is going to be a "job".

 

[Jennasis]

You are decsribing my (now deceased) uncle. He was diabetic...and a food addict. They had secret refridgerators, hidden food etc. He would binge, find food that was hidden and eat it. And he was MEAN AS A SNAKE to his wife and kids who tried to save his life by hiding food and controlling his diet.

 

[Luv2Run]

His "official" diagnosis so far is severe depression. It is tied in w/his health problems. I know he has had a tough time, but "walking on eggshells" is a good way of describing my existence. He has been verbally brutal to me. He tells me to shut up (along with expletives), he calls me names, he calls me stupid he berates me, he belittles me and says things that cannot be unsaid. He is not in good enough physical shape to physically abuse me, other than throwing some stuff at me.

I remember the post you made under a pseudonym, and was hoping you had found some help. My last marriage was extremely verbally and emotionally abusive. He was very controlling, he talked down to me like I was a child, he would make me the butt of jokes in front of our friends, and then behind closed doors he would treat me like I was always doing something wrong/accuse me of a myriad of "faults". Little did I know, this was a clever ruse to cover up his indiscretions, so he was taking it out on me. After a night of drinking, he pulled a shotgun on me, and that's is absolutely the point I knew it was over. No one should ever ever ever threaten the life of their spouse. I lost all respect for him that night. We went to counseling together for 3 or 4 sessions after that, but my heart just wasn't in it, and it was clear he was playing the victim and pitting our counselor against me. I wish I could have gone to see her by myself, but my insurance wouldn't cover it.

Absolutely get yourself to see a therapist, so at least you can get your thoughts sorted out on what you really, truly want to do. A lawyer is not a therapist, and will give you lip service so that they can make the most money off of you. By seeing a therapist, you will have the words you need to defend yourself. You didn't mention in your post what you say in return when he's being verbally abusive, but maybe you need to stand up to him? I'm not saying yelling back at him or throwing things in return, but are you just sitting there taking his abuse? This in no way helps your situation, and only further makes you feel like you're his punching bag. If he's depending on you for his basic daily needs, then he shouldn't be treating you this way. "Don't bite the hand that feeds you", and all that.

Also, if you two go to counseling together, at least he won't be able to play the victim card and accuse you of "abandoning" him or "not even trying to make it work". And that way, you have a neutral third party who will not let things get out of hand should he get riled up in your session.

Sorry, that was a lot, but I really feel for you and want the best for you. Feel free to PM me anytime.

 

[ronandannette]

Thank you everybody for your input. I believe @The Mystery Machine remembers the discussion from a while back under a pseudonym.

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=3288440

It has been a total rollercoaster on the health part, he has had more surgeries since then. He cannot use the walker anymore, he is (temporarily) having to use a wheelchair now. However, the doctor says he should be able to walk again when things get healed up. He still has to have more surgery first. The doctor says it is just going to take time. Keeping circulation going and blood sugar under control is essential. This is a thing he is fighting me about. He won't check the blood sugar, he binges. He finds "bad" food that is hidden (and hidden well) in the house and eats it. He snoops while I am gone, he found some cookies I had buried in a place I thought nobody would ever find them, and ate the whole thing.

I have other places I can "stay", but the big problem is that there is nobody else to take care of him. He has alienated our other "resources". His behavior has caused them to say, nope I am not gonna mess with this. He is completely dependent on me (and my family) to do for him. His family is not too helpful, they live a little ways away and they just aren't interested in "pitching in".

Good morning Kathryn, I hope you were able to get a good night's rest and a little time to process some of the thoughts expressed here.

As many others have mentioned, what you do may depend solely on whether or not you believe he is capable of controlling his behaviour towards you or if his medical problems have caused permanent cognitive damage. If the latter is the case I would think it's time to look for an in-patient facility. Clearly you will be unable to meet his needs indefinitely without help. It wouldn't necessarily mean abandoning him on the doorstep but neither would you be bound to the kind of life Coonhound described up-thread. Being apart with him in a safe situation may be the most truly loving thing you could do for both of you.

If it's the former, I think you're at the point where some "shock therapy" might be in order. Like many have said, you need to TELL him that you are at your breaking point - no pussyfooting around. Set an ultimatum up to and including being prepared to leave the house the instant he steps out of line. Be prepared to leave him bedridden and wallowing in his own filth for a (relatively short) period of time in order for him to "get it". Then let him, as an equal partner in your marriage, decide what, if anything he's willing to do to preserve it.

Stop being the "jailer" he has labelled you as. The idea that you must save him from himself has skewed your situation in an extremely negative direction. If he is an adult of sound mind he must be able to understand the health consequences of his actions. Ridiculous as it may seem he is entitled to commit suicide by cookie if he chooses. Accept this today and let him know it's all on him now. Honestly, the scenario of you "hiding" food and him rebelliously searching for it is so sad I could weep for you both. Like everyone else, I wish you well.

 

[HM]

I think for you a divorce is probably the correct route.
Abuse is not OK, both verbal, mental, and physical...and sounds like you get all three.
You deserve to have a life without fear.
Good luck OP.

 

[ColoradoDisneyFreaks]

Honestly OP, if he's able to search the house for well hidden treats, then he's perfectly capable of taking care of himself, he just chooses not to so you have to step into that role. Stop, when he yells, walk out the door, he's in a wheelchair, not a coma, let him fend for himself.

I agree that you should see a counselor, for yourself, you need to get your feet back under you and rebuild your own esteem and self-worth, but I also wouldn't stop getting ducks in a row to leave. You deserve to live without being afraid of what an inadvertent action will trigger.

 

[diznygirl]

You are exhausted and confused. Anyone would be in your position. Like other posters, I agree that it would be wonderful if you could see a counselor so that you could have the benefit of a trained and sympathetic ear.

Maybe at this point you don't have to make an immediate choice between counseling and divorce. What about seeing a counselor for a few sessions just to sort out your own feelings? It really doesn't matter what those of us on the disboards think about whether or not you should get a divorce. It only matters what you think, and right now it sounds as if you are understandably unsure about what you really want.

But while you are going through counseling, why not begin to get your ducks in a row? You don't have to put anything into effect, just gather all the information you need. Know exactly what steps you need to take if you do decide to get a divorce, and set yourself up so that you could quickly implement those steps if you needed to. You'd have to do that anyway if you do decide to divorce, and if you decide to stay married, it won't be time wasted. You'll still know exactly where you stand financially, etc. Just going through the motions may give you some clarity and strength, and actually help you in sorting out your feelings during counseling.

Good luck! You're in a terrible position right now, but you will get through it, and you have friends here.

THIS is very good advice. You are mentally and physically worn down. You need to be in a better place to make such a big decision.

If you can leave for a few days, do it. Don't say you can't leave him alone - because that's what the divorce would do and that's what you are planning. So give it a try. You will get the space you need to get some perspective.

 

[Colleen27]

I have a friend going through something similar - husband with health issues he will not appropriately address who lashes out verbally and gets emotionally abusive when she tries to force him to comply with treatment - and she's found talking to her pastor very helpful in clarifying her thoughts and feelings. The hard part, for her, is knowing that her husband's health will continue to decline if left on his own because he won't cooperate with his treatment plan but over time and with counseling she's starting to accept that it isn't up to her to prevent that. She shouldn't have to live with a lifetime of abuse to protect him from himself, but she's so used to putting his well-being above her own that she feels "wrong" somehow for having finally had enough.

It seems like she's had to walk a fine line in how she deals with this. She doesn't intend to blindside him with it, but at the same time she's getting all her ducks in a row financially and emotionally before raising the subject with her husband. She's basically viewing talking to him as a last-ditch attempt; she doesn't want to leave herself exposed if he becomes vindictive and attempts to use money as a means of control, but she's also not just going to walk out one day without first telling him that she's at her breaking point, suggesting mutual counselling, and giving him one last chance to change the things that are driving her away.

Good luck to you, OP.

 

[JanaDee]

We knew a lady thru church who married a man when she was young and almost immediately after their marriage he had some sort of accident where he became mentally challenged and was like an infant (couldn't walk, talk, do anything etc). Many people said she should out him in a nursing home and she was still young so she could go on to re-marry and have a happy family life with someone else. She said no, I vowed to love this man and stay with him for life. For forty years she took care of his every need even though he did not even know who she was. She slept in small bed next to his bed (he had a hospital type bed) and she rarely went out because he could not go with her, so she went to church and the grocery and doctor and that was about it. She may not have had the happiest life but the eternal reward for her would come in the next. Her commitment to her husband and her unwavering love for him - even when he no longer knew who she was- was really something special.

That's really sad, not special or anything to be admired.

 

[aprilgail2]

That's really sad, not special or anything to be admired.

Totally agree- nothing special about throwing your whole life away-you get one go around at this, live it to the fullest as long as you can!

 

[marlynnp]

I think I remember the postings. I think you posted about meals? Also he tells his family negative things about you and other stuff.

It is OK to get a divorce.

Just get your ducks in a row and proceed forward following the lawyer's advice. Everyone has their own personal line in the sand.

My line in the sand would have been long ago. I cannot put up with living with abuse, no matter what.

You do have an obligation to yourself to live in a healthy environment.

I agree.

I remember your other posts, and honestly I don't think your marriage was ever very good. There's no way I'd put up with his abuse.

YOU are not the loser

 

[Kathryn Merteuil]

Well, this morning he was almost like normal. He actually asked me if I loved him and I said yes. He asked me about stuff I wanted to do in the future etc.. It was one of those situations where I thought we were making some kind of progress.

I had to work today. The first part of school is sooooo emotionally and physically draining. I was up since about 4 this morning, partially because he woke me up banging around getting up and down the hall probably 3:30 or so. I was tired, very tired this evening. I stretched out in the floor in the living room and fell asleep because I was exhausted. He was mad at me for not "wanting to spend time with him" and went to his room. He has been there a long time now. In fact he is asleep now, I am assuming for the night.

What he sees as personal insult and being anti-social, is just the fact that I cannot physically sustain consciousness for that amount of time.

 

[LuvGoofy6]

That's really sad, not special or anything to be admired.

I agree! If it were my daughter in this situation I would be very sad for her and would encourage her to think about her life. She may visit because she loves him but eventually I would think she would want that love reciprocated and children in her life.

 

[Liberty Belle]

Well, this morning he was almost like normal. He actually asked me if I loved him and I said yes. He asked me about stuff I wanted to do in the future etc.. It was one of those situations where I thought we were making some kind of progress.

I had to work today. The first part of school is sooooo emotionally and physically draining. I was up since about 4 this morning, partially because he woke me up banging around getting up and down the hall probably 3:30 or so. I was tired, very tired this evening. I stretched out in the floor in the living room and fell asleep because I was exhausted. He was mad at me for not "wanting to spend time with him" and went to his room. He has been there a long time now. In fact he is asleep now, I am assuming for the night.

What he sees as personal insult and being anti-social, is just the fact that I cannot physically sustain consciousness for that amount of time.

I feel sorry for both of you. That's his depression talking. He possibly can't help it any more than you can help falling asleep with exhaustion.

I don't know the answer, but I would strongly suggest marriage counseling. This morning would have been a great time to gently suggest it (though I know there probably wasn't much time).

 

[SamRoc]

Op i'm so sorry you are going through this, your words are truly heartbreaking. I only hope you can find peace and happiness, everyone deserves that.

 

[Nancyg56]

OP- I remember you as well.

And, that's what marriage and commitment are. I dislike the fact that people think that marriage is about their own happiness all the time. I think unrepentant abuse or adultery are grounds for divorce, health is not. OP, please go to counseling. It sounds like your attorney just wants a paycheck by encouraging you to divorce and spring it on him. I don't like the feeling I'm getting from what you said the attorney has said. Not fair and could easily send him completely over the edge.

I could have been teh OP years ago, if my DH had had surgeries. Other than that, he was a mess, and so was I. WE both believed in marriage and commitment, so we figured we were stuck with each other, and resented each other even more because of that. We reached a point when we did nto even want to breathe the same air.

I went to a counselor, very much believing he would validate my poor sad self, tell me to boot him and move on. Oh my Gosh!!!! What a relief that would be....permission to be FREE! Nope....he asked me to bring DH in and after what must have been an hour of Hades, he told us we had no way we could fix the marriage until we fixed ourselves. So we did.
I moved in with my Mom, and we spent a lot of time in therapy, first for ourselves, and then to see if we could repair our marriage.

I think that had I gone to an attorney first, I would never have had the opportunity to experience the marriage we have since repaired and strengthened.

Thank you everybody for your input. I believe @The Mystery Machine remembers the discussion from a while back under a pseudonym.

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=3288440

It has been a total rollercoaster on the health part, he has had more surgeries since then. He cannot use the walker anymore, he is (temporarily) having to use a wheelchair now. However, the doctor says he should be able to walk again when things get healed up. He still has to have more surgery first. The doctor says it is just going to take time. Keeping circulation going and blood sugar under control is essential. This is a thing he is fighting me about. He won't check the blood sugar, he binges. He finds "bad" food that is hidden (and hidden well) in the house and eats it. He snoops while I am gone, he found some cookies I had buried in a place I thought nobody would ever find them, and ate the whole thing.

I have other places I can "stay", but the big problem is that there is nobody else to take care of him. He has alienated our other "resources". His behavior has caused them to say, nope I am not gonna mess with this. He is completely dependent on me (and my family) to do for him. His family is not too helpful, they live a little ways away and they just aren't interested in "pitching in".

Okay, I am going to be a little tough on you. He says you are his jailer, and you say you need to take care of him. Well, care is a two way street, and my dear...he manages to get along just fine cookie snitching and snooping when you are not with him. I do understand depression, and I do understand about care after surgery, but neither is a free pass to be abusive. You want help...be nice. You want to be a mean SOB...do it yourself.

He is probably not as helpless as you think, and perhaps the biggest favor you can do for him is to stop enabling this behavior. Maybe you lay in on the line...knock off the nastiness, or be responsible for your own stuff, and mean it.

I would start by telling him you are spending a week with Mom, and tell him to line up some support for himself. And tell him why. You are exhausted, emotionally and physically, and you need someone to pamper you for a little while. Let him see what he can do, and if he can get help. I would not be men, but I would say that you need a break, and that since he feels he is in jail...he is not as free as a bird.

Honestly OP, if he's able to search the house for well hidden treats, then he's perfectly capable of taking care of himself, he just chooses not to so you have to step into that role. Stop, when he yells, walk out the door, he's in a wheelchair, not a coma, let him fend for himself.

I agree that you should see a counselor, for yourself, you need to get your feet back under you and rebuild your own esteem and self-worth, but I also wouldn't stop getting ducks in a row to leave. You deserve to live without being afraid of what an inadvertent action will trigger.

Exactly.

 

[tomthebarncat]

I feel this way about the loser I am married to, he is worth more dead than alive. Yes, we are separated and I moved to China to get away from him!! So, I would say when you wish they were dead, you know the relationship is over!

 

[lisaviolet]

Kathyrn,

I'm so very sorry for what you're going through. Very.

Depression is an illness and of course very serious. But I will never understand why some believe it is free rein to act a certain way, it is certainly not. People can go on about how it makes them do this or that. It creates a lot that is tough to fight off but it doesn't take away choices. Or empathy for loved ones' experience while helping them deal at even the smallest measure.

I'm so sorry for what you're both going through and may you both find some peace.

I think some give up way too easy with marriage and some stay way too long in a dead marriage. Know where you're at.

 

[arminnie]

He's an abuser. period. dot.

Implicit threats that he will get worse without you to take care of him are just like the guy who says he'll kill himself if you leave.

He's doing all of the classic abuser stuff - mean and cruel followed by "nice".

No one should ever stay with someone who abuses them. NO ONE! Ever!

 

[lauradis]

That's really sad, not special or anything to be admired.

Totally agree- nothing special about throwing your whole life away-you get one go around at this, live it to the fullest as long as you can!

I agree! If it were my daughter in this situation I would be very sad for her and would encourage her to think about her life. She may visit because she loves him but eventually I would think she would want that love reciprocated and children in her life.

But if we replace husband and put "her child" in the story.

I bet you would be singing her praises of devotion for her child that she love so dearly.