Spinoff: Marriage, when do you know it is over?

[Kathryn Merteuil]

I am not even going to use a pseudonym on this... It may be TMI but I am ranting.

My heart is absolutely breaking right now. My husband and I do not get along. He has had some issues (was actually a thread under a pseudonym a while back). This much later, his situation is actually improving. Unfortunately we are not. I have seen him through the worst of times, and it is almost as if he hates me now. He is verbally abusive, threatening and confrontational. I could tell him George Washington was the 1st president and he would interpret that is fighting words.

I spent this afternoon sitting in a lawyer's office. (A few weeks ago I consulted a different lawyer, spent $200 and ended up changing my mind and decided to try to stick it out with him). I know it might be the "thing to say", but I seriously mean it when I say this is killing me. I am still on the fence about this, but I keep digging myself deeper into this divorce thing. I made the appointment and took home a thick stack of paperwork this time. Of course my DH knows nothing about any of this. My lawyer suggested I get all my ducks in a row and then spring it on him.

I think back to the good times we had, there were some. I don't want to hurt him. I am afraid this will devastate him. However, it seems as if daily life with him just destroys me a little bit more every day. He can be nice to me for just a little while then I start feeling guilty about wanting out, and I start wanting us to make it work. Like tonight, I felt really bad about saying I was working late when I was really seeing a divorce lawyer. He was nice to me when I got home. That makes me feel bad, and like a horrible person.

Due to some concerns about his health and stuff like that, the lawyer told me it would be in my best interests to cut and run. If he was to get down and end up in a nursing home, I would be in serious trouble financially. My head tells me that I should have been gone long ago, but my heart wants it to still work. Intellectually I know that we are broken and it cannot be fixed. My heart wants more than anything to have our old life back and things to be like they once were.

I guess I am kind of venting here.

 

[sonnyjane]

I am not even going to use a pseudonym on this... It may be TMI but I am ranting.

My heart is absolutely breaking right now. My husband and I do not get along. He has had some issues (was actually a thread under a pseudonym a while back). This much later, his situation is actually improving. Unfortunately we are not. I have seen him through the worst of times, and it is almost as if he hates me now. He is verbally abusive, threatening and confrontational. I could tell him George Washington was the 1st president and he would interpret that is fighting words.

I spent this afternoon sitting in a lawyer's office. (A few weeks ago I consulted a different lawyer, spent $200 and ended up changing my mind and decided to try to stick it out with him). I know it might be the "thing to say", but I seriously mean it when I say this is killing me. I am still on the fence about this, but I keep digging myself deeper into this divorce thing. I made the appointment and took home a thick stack of paperwork this time. Of course my DH knows nothing about any of this. My lawyer suggested I get all my ducks in a row and then spring it on him.

I think back to the good times we had, there were some. I don't want to hurt him. I am afraid this will devastate him. However, it seems as if daily life with him just destroys me a little bit more every day. He can be nice to me for just a little while then I start feeling guilty about wanting out, and I start wanting us to make it work. Like tonight, I felt really bad about saying I was working late when I was really seeing a divorce lawyer. He was nice to me when I got home. That makes me feel bad, and like a horrible person.

Due to some concerns about his health and stuff like that, the lawyer told me it would be in my best interests to cut and run. If he was to get down and end up in a nursing home, I would be in serious trouble financially. My head tells me that I should have been gone long ago, but my heart wants it to still work. Intellectually I know that we are broken and it cannot be fixed. My heart wants more than anything to have our old life back and things to be like they once were.

I guess I am kind of venting here.

#1 question: Have you two gone to see a marriage counselor? I'm not opposed to divorce, but I do think it should be considered only after marriage counseling. If one spouse refuses to see a counselor, then that's even more telling.

 

[Kathryn Merteuil]

We have not seen any marriage counselors. He is in therapy over his own issues. He sees me as the enemy and jailer. I see myself as servant/maid/nurse/caregiver. I don't even have to disagree with him about something to set him off into a raging fit. I can try to agree with him and he will just flip out. He has worn me down to nothing. I am physically and emotionally exhausted.

 

[lizabu]

If he won't go to marriage counselling with you go by yourself. Divorce is the hardest thing to do.

 

[sonnyjane]

We have not seen any marriage counselors. He is in therapy over his own issues. He sees me as the enemy and jailer. I see myself as servant/maid/nurse/caregiver. I don't even have to disagree with him about something to set him off into a raging fit. I can try to agree with him and he will just flip out. He has worn me down to nothing. I am physically and emotionally exhausted.

Have you proposed marriage counseling at any point? Again, I'm not one of those people that says "for better or worse - NO DIVORCE!", but I do think that you have to at least give it one attempt at counseling. If the other party refuses, then there's nothing you can do and go ahead and proceed with divorce, but I think both parties need to give it a last ditch effort. Sometimes just saying "I'm not happy" isn't enough to get the message through. Sometimes you have to be as blunt as to say "I think we're heading for divorce. If you'd like to avoid it, we need to see a counselor together."

 

[MOpGrad2013]

I have seen him through the worst of times, and it is almost as if he hates me now. He is verbally abusive, threatening and confrontational. I could tell him George Washington was the 1st president and he would interpret that is fighting words.



I think back to the good times we had, there were some. I don't want to hurt him. I am afraid this will devastate him. However, it seems as if daily life with him just destroys me a little bit more every day. He can be nice to me for just a little while then I start feeling guilty about wanting out, and I start wanting us to make it work. Like tonight, I felt really bad about saying I was working late when I was really seeing a divorce lawyer. He was nice to me when I got home. That makes me feel bad, and like a horrible person.

I don't know what point is the true over point, but I would recommend a good psychiatrist for yourself.

Our marriage is intact, but we had rough times. I was suffering depression and there was so much other stress. I felt like every time I stood up for myself, I was in the wrong. Best thing I ever had was a psychiatrist step in and say, "it's ok to stand up for yourself." DH was also suffering from ailments, but his anger was putting the blame on me.

I grew up in an abusive home. I wish my mom would have left the first time she started out the door.

Many hugs for you as you make this difficult decision.

 

[StephMK]

Does he have a diagnosis? Would he be willing to take meds consistently to regulate his behaviors? If no, then I think you already know the answer to your question. Even if yes, I would still think cautiously.

I don't take divorce lightly either but I also don't believe that someone should give up their entire life and happiness for a partner who is abusive in any way. I work with kids who have behavior disorders and they are exhausting. I cannot imagine living in the house, married to one who may be similar. I imagine you are always walking on eggshells.

I'm so sorry you are going through this.

 

[Kathryn Merteuil]

Something that is making this harder is the fact that I have been through it once before. The first time, it rolled right off. Of course I was young and had a lot of fight left in me. Now I am over 40 and looking at the prospect of being a 2 time loser.

 

[Kathryn Merteuil]

Does he have a diagnosis? Would he be willing to take meds consistently to regulate his behaviors? If no, then I think you already know the answer to your question. Even if yes, I would still think cautiously.

I don't take divorce lightly either but I also don't believe that someone should give up their entire life and happiness for a partner who is abusive in any way. I work with kids who have behavior disorders and they are exhausting. I cannot imagine living in the house, married to one who may be similar. I imagine you are always walking on eggshells.

I'm so sorry you are going through this.

His "official" diagnosis so far is severe depression. It is tied in w/his health problems. I know he has had a tough time, but "walking on eggshells" is a good way of describing my existence. He has been verbally brutal to me. He tells me to shut up (along with expletives), he calls me names, he calls me stupid he berates me, he belittles me and says things that cannot be unsaid. He is not in good enough physical shape to physically abuse me, other than throwing some stuff at me.

 

[sonnyjane]

His "official" diagnosis so far is severe depression. It is tied in w/his health problems. I know he has had a tough time, but "walking on eggshells" is a good way of describing my existence. He has been verbally brutal to me. He tells me to shut up (along with expletives), he calls me names, he calls me stupid he berates me, he belittles me and says things that cannot be unsaid. He is not in good enough physical shape to physically abuse me, other than throwing some stuff at me.

NOT ok...

I do feel sad that you say you dread having a second divorce and feeling like a failure. I'd view it as a second success in deciding that you don't deserve to suffer.

Wanted to add that I'm a huge proponent of going to counseling alone as well. I think it will help you get the strength to deal with the situation and leave. I was just pushing marriage counseling so much because I do think that in order to improve the marriage as a whole it's much more effective to both be working on it.

 

[Kathryn Merteuil]

In retrospect, the first one was complete childishness on both our parts. We were young and just behaved immaturely. Neither of us would step up and be the bigger person. It should have been totally avoidable.

This time I feel drained and destroyed. I don't want it to happen but I feel as if I am out of options. I don't know if it was just a lawyer wanting to make some money here but when I left that office today I wanted this done posthaste. After I got home I started second guessing myself again.

 

[Coonhound]

Depression is an illness. You vowed through sickness and health. You vowed to love him even when he is sick. Depression is a true illness like any other.
HOWEVER, it sounds to me like you could be in physical danger due to his rage, in which case you should not be living together, for your own safety. I think you have a duty to figure out what he needs for his safety- medication, hospitalization etc. And you have a duty to remain married because that is what you promised him in your wedding vows. You do NOT have a duty to continue to live with a person who is physically harming you. Many people do not live together due to issues like this.

 

[sonnyjane]

Depression is an illness. You vowed through sickness and health. You vowed to love him even when he is sick. Depression is a true illness like any other.
HOWEVER, it sounds to me like you could be in physical danger due to his rage, in which case you should not be living together, for your own safety. I think you have a duty to figure out what he needs for his safety- medication, hospitalization etc. And you have a duty to remain married because that is what you promised him in your wedding vows. You do NOT have a duty to continue to live with a person who is physically harming you. Many people do not live together due to issues like this.

And if medication doesn't help the violence stop? And if he would have to live in a facility forever because he is too dangerous to live with her? She would be expected to stay like that for the next 40-50 years of her life? I get that vows are vows and yeah, if your loved one gets cancer or loses a limb, etc. you aren't supposed to just quit, but if his illness is damaging to her and cannot be remedied I would never expect someone to live like that for the remainder of their life.

 

[njmom47]

Sending a

I too suggest counseling at least for yourself. It might make you realize you deserve better, that you are stronger than you think you are, and that (an another poster stated) you are not a 2 time loser, but will have a second success in that you shouldn't have to suffer.
It's not easy to leave but for your own sanity and safety, you may just have to.

 

[Coonhound]

And if medication doesn't help the violence stop? And if he would have to live in a facility forever because he is too dangerous to live with her? She would be expected to stay like that for the next 40-50 years of her life? I get that vows are vows and yeah, if your loved one gets cancer or loses a limb, etc. you aren't supposed to just quit, but if his illness is damaging to her and cannot be remedied I would never expect someone to live like that for the remainder of their life.

We knew a lady thru church who married a man when she was young and almost immediately after their marriage he had some sort of accident where he became mentally challenged and was like an infant (couldn't walk, talk, do anything etc). Many people said she should out him in a nursing home and she was still young so she could go on to re-marry and have a happy family life with someone else. She said no, I vowed to love this man and stay with him for life. For forty years she took care of his every need even though he did not even know who she was. She slept in small bed next to his bed (he had a hospital type bed) and she rarely went out because he could not go with her, so she went to church and the grocery and doctor and that was about it. She may not have had the happiest life but the eternal reward for her would come in the next. Her commitment to her husband and her unwavering love for him - even when he no longer knew who she was- was really something special.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

We have not seen any marriage counselors. He is in therapy over his own issues. He sees me as the enemy and jailer. I see myself as servant/maid/nurse/caregiver. I don't even have to disagree with him about something to set him off into a raging fit. I can try to agree with him and he will just flip out. He has worn me down to nothing. I am physically and emotionally exhausted.

I think I remember the postings. I think you posted about meals? Also he tells his family negative things about you and other stuff.

It is OK to get a divorce.

Just get your ducks in a row and proceed forward following the lawyer's advice. Everyone has their own personal line in the sand.

My line in the sand would have been long ago. I cannot put up with living with abuse, no matter what.

You do have an obligation to yourself to live in a healthy environment.

 

[bdcp]

We knew a lady thru church who married a man when she was young and almost immediately after their marriage he had some sort of accident where he became mentally challenged and was like an infant (couldn't walk, talk, do anything etc). Many people said she should out him in a nursing home and she was still young so she could go on to re-marry and have a happy family life with someone else. She said no, I vowed to love this man and stay with him for life. For forty years she took care of his every need even though he did not even know who she was. She slept in small bed next to his bed (he had a hospital type bed) and she rarely went out because he could not go with her, so she went to church and the grocery and doctor and that was about it. She may not have had the happiest life but the eternal reward for her would come in the next. Her commitment to her husband and her unwavering love for him - even when he no longer knew who she was- was really something special.

And, that's what marriage and commitment are. I dislike the fact that people think that marriage is about their own happiness all the time. I think unrepentant abuse or adultery are grounds for divorce, health is not. OP, please go to counseling. It sounds like your attorney just wants a paycheck by encouraging you to divorce and spring it on him. I don't like the feeling I'm getting from what you said the attorney has said. Not fair and could easily send him completely over the edge.

 

[mom2rtk]

We knew a lady thru church who married a man when she was young and almost immediately after their marriage he had some sort of accident where he became mentally challenged and was like an infant (couldn't walk, talk, do anything etc). Many people said she should out him in a nursing home and she was still young so she could go on to re-marry and have a happy family life with someone else. She said no, I vowed to love this man and stay with him for life. For forty years she took care of his every need even though he did not even know who she was. She slept in small bed next to his bed (he had a hospital type bed) and she rarely went out because he could not go with her, so she went to church and the grocery and doctor and that was about it. She may not have had the happiest life but the eternal reward for her would come in the next. Her commitment to her husband and her unwavering love for him - even when he no longer knew who she was- was really something special.

That's pretty admirable. But I bet he wasn't having raging fits and throwing things at her. That really has a way of complicating things.

 

[aprilgail2]

His "official" diagnosis so far is severe depression. It is tied in w/his health problems. I know he has had a tough time, but "walking on eggshells" is a good way of describing my existence. He has been verbally brutal to me. He tells me to shut up (along with expletives), he calls me names, he calls me stupid he berates me, he belittles me and says things that cannot be unsaid. He is not in good enough physical shape to physically abuse me, other than throwing some stuff at me.

That would be the end of it for me- life is to short to deal with crap like that when you don't have to. Why stay someplace you are miserable?

 

[dawnhaze]

You have no obligation to stay in an emotionally abusive marriage no matter what the uber-traditionalists here say. Throwing things at you? Nope. Repeat after me: "Treat me like a human being you love and respect or I am out the door."