Spin-off - Social Security Numbers on Paperwork

[Happy Snowman]

It drives me nuts that it is out there on all this paperwork but the one that bothered me the most was our mortgage company. Our mortgage recently got bought by a pretty big bank. They called us on our landline to verify some information BUT they would not tell me exactly who they were, why they were calling UNTIL I provided them with the last 4 digits on my SSN#. I told them I am not giving even those 4 numbers out over the phone when you can't even tell me what it is your calling about. They said it was the only way for them to verify that they were speaking with me and had the right phone number. I told them then we have a problem because I will never giver them those numbers. I hung up and called the number on my paperwork. Yes indeed it was the new mortgage company and they were calling to welcome us. Seriously? I am hoping they sell our mortgage again, I am NOT impressed with how they handle this.

I had a company do that to me as well. I'm trying to remember who it was...maybe our mortgage company. They called me, wanted me to give them all kinds of info, last 4, date of birth, etc. I refused, reminding them that THEY called me. She got a bit testy with me but I don't care. I'm not giving that information to anyone I don't know.

 

[Mkrop]

I had a company do that to me as well. I'm trying to remember who it was...maybe our mortgage company. They called me, wanted me to give them all kinds of info, last 4, date of birth, etc. I refused, reminding them that THEY called me. She got a bit testy with me but I don't care. I'm not giving that information to anyone I don't know.

Mine got frustrated with me too. I could not believe it. DH said next time say, "you first"... as in you give me your SSN#s then I will give you mine over the phone. What company could possibly think this is a good practice

 

[ZuZugal]

I've heard of some leagues in Little League Baseball where the league administrators not only asked for certified copies of birth certificates as primary proof of age, but where they collected copies and held onto them. I've even heard of some carrying entire collections for a team on a clipboard. Now that's a huge risk in terms of identity theft.

In our son's league, the coach/manager are required to carry the birth certificates, especially to tournaments. I wish there were another way but they do not provide an alternative. We have had to produce the BC's on a few occasions, and they can suspend play or make you forfeit games if you cannot produce them.

 

[willowsnn3]

I work at a driving school (DUI/Defensive Driving) where some people have to attend classes to reinstate their driver's license.
For their Certificate of Completion we ask for their social only if they cannot provide their driver's license # or state issued ID#. When we enter the social security # on the online site it will automatically give us their driver's license #. If they don't have their numbers or refuse them then their certificate has 'unknown' on it. No big deal for us but it is more of a hassle for them when they actually take it in to the Dept of Driver Services to reinstate their license.

 

[bcla]

In our son's league, the coach/manager are required to carry the birth certificates, especially to tournaments. I wish there were another way but they do not provide an alternative. We have had to produce the BC's on a few occasions, and they can suspend play or make you forfeit games if you cannot produce them.

I think it's a stack of at least five documents if a birth certificate or consular report of birth abroad can't be produced.

You never heard of the Puerto Rico birth certificate fiasco? They actually invalidated ALL birth certificates issued before mid 2010. Schools (as a standard procedure) would hold onto them, even for kids who were long gone. Parents would order multiple copies and use them as needed. Thieves targeted schools and would only take the certificates to sell on the black market. They could be used by Spanish speakers to establish new identities.

http://www.uscis.gov/archive/archiv...erto-rico-birth-certificates-form-i-9-process

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...rtificates-Invalid-After-July-1-85988872.html

Puerto Rico's legislature passed the law after raids last March broke up a criminal ring that had stolen thousands of birth certificates and other identifying documents from several different schools in Puerto Rico.

Puerto Ricans on average get about 20 copies of their birth certificates over their lifetimes, said Kenneth McClintock Hernandez, the commonwealth's secretary of state.

This is because they are regularly asked to produce them for such events as enrolling children in school or joining sports leagues. Schools and other institutions have typically kept copies, a practice prohibited under the new law since January, McClintock said.

As much as 40 percent of the identity fraud in the U.S. involves birth certificates from Puerto Rico, McClintock said he was told by the State Department.

I don't understand why a passport or state ID isn't acceptable. My kid just signed up for kindergarten and only needed a passport, although we also brought a BC, but they didn't hold on to them.

 

[eliza61]

The thread about the fraudulent tax return got me thinking about all the random bits of paperwork that request or require a social security number, and how unsecured that information really is when you're expected to provide it to every doctor and dentist you've ever seen and every place you've ever applied for a job.

How many people opt out of sharing that information? Have you ever been forced to, or had to deal with consequences for not doing so? A friend who does hiring for a retailer says applications without an SS# go straight into the trash. Is that common practice, do you think, or an anomaly?

probably very common.

Remember for many employees they have to check and make sure their applicants are legally allowed to work in the states. My company has to, and the only way we can do that is for an applicant to provide us with a ss number. We don't have paper applications anymore but think about it, if I get 300 applications for 1 position and I've got a person who doesn't want to give up their number (which I totally understand and respect) is it worth me doing the extra work to accommodate them, when I can just trash it and move on to the other 299 applicants?

 

[bcla]

probably very common.

Remember for many employees they have to check and make sure their applicants are legally allowed to work in the states. My company has to, and the only way we can do that is for an applicant to provide us with a ss number. We don't have paper applications anymore but think about it, if I get 300 applications for 1 position and I've got a person who doesn't want to give up their number (which I totally understand and respect) is it worth me doing the extra work to accommodate them, when I can just trash it and move on to the other 299 applicants?

I thought that was usually done after a job offer. The I-9 and E-Verify aren't allowed to be filled out until a job offer is presented.

I've never been asked for SSN when applying for a job. Often I'd just show up for an interview and they'd either hire or decline. When hired, that's when the determination of eligibility occurred. There's no legal requirement for an employer to collect SSN for job applicants. Some states even restrict the collection of SSN to an actual hire or to run a credit/background check.

http://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title34/Chapter46/34-46-S201.html?v=C34-46-S201_1800010118000101

34-46-201. Information collected.
(1) Except as provided in Subsection (2), an employer may not request the following information before an applicant is offered a job:
(a) Social Security number;
(b) date of birth; or
(c) driver license number.

The exceptions are basically credit check, background check, or driving record where the applicant consents to such a check.

 

[eliza61]

I thought that was usually done after a job offer. The I-9 and E-Verify aren't allowed to be filled out until a job offer is presented.

I've never been asked for SSN when applying for a job. Often I'd just show up for an interview and they'd either hire or decline. When hired, that's when the determination of eligibility occurred. There's no legal requirement for an employer to collect SSN for job applicants. Some states even restrict the collection of SSN to an actual hire or to run a credit/background check.



The exceptions are basically credit check, background check, or driving record where the applicant consents to such a check.

Depends on the position. we do run a background check on all of our applicants. If we're hiring some one who is going to be working on sensitive projects we have too.
We always get consent.
You are absolutely right, there is no legal requirement and we would never force some one to give us one.

I've never not been asked for an ss number when applying for a job.

My current job (22 years). I had the interview, then they said they were very interested and had me fill out paperwork. I had to first bring in my ss card, proof of graduation and proof of identity (drivers license or passport). then I was fingerprinted. After that they extended a job offer.

I took a part time job as a casual with USPS during the Christmas season for many years when my kids where young. definitely had to give up the numbers then.

 

[bcla]

Depends on the position. we do run a background check on all of our applicants. If we're hiring some one who is going to be working on sensitive projects we have too.
We always get consent.
You are absolutely right, there is no legal requirement and we would never force some one to give us one.

I don't think I've ever had a formal background check anywhere I've been hired. I haven't had a single employer get my SSN until I was hired.

The closest I've come is maybe pre-employment drug screening. I'd gotten an offer, but I didn't actually say I'd accept it. They scheduled a physical with drug screening. They weren't too happy when I called to tell them I wasn't accepting the job.

 

[eliza61]

I don't think I've ever had a formal background check anywhere I've been hired. I haven't had a single employer get my SSN until I was hired.

The closest I've come is maybe pre-employment drug screening. I'd gotten an offer, but I didn't actually say I'd accept it. They scheduled a physical with drug screening. They weren't too happy when I called to tell them I wasn't accepting the job.

Wow, I totally admit to being surprised. lol. My late dh was a volunteer football coach and they did background checks on everyone. heck my church does them on every Sunday school teacher, around here if you do any type of work with kids you are background checked.

My son pumps gas at WaWa part time. lol he gave up the ss number and had a pre job drug test, credit check and background check.

 

[bcla]

Wow, I totally admit to being surprised. lol. My late dh was a volunteer football coach and they did background checks on everyone. heck my church does them on every Sunday school teacher, around here if you do any type of work with kids you are background checked.

My son pumps gas at WaWa part time. lol he gave up the ss number and had a pre job drug test, credit check and background check.

I took a contract job once. The contracting firm was on the East Coast and I had to get the I-9 notarized - to verify my proof of employment eligibility. I gave them my SSN over the phone first, so they could start the paperwork. That was a real pain.

I wouldn't be surprised if former employers had been contacted, but my understanding is that many employers don't even contact references since most aren't likely to say anything negative for fear of being sued for disparagement. I've heard just a contact to HR to verify employment history and job description, but no detailed questions.

 

[runwad]

Ugh my DD16 had to apply to a community college in our town so she could take post secondary (college classes) in high school next year. She needed her soc number for that application. I hated given it but she did it on her own with the guidance counselor so I'm trusting it was needed.

On another note I just signed her up for Identity theft protection cause her info was compromised during the Anthem Hack, so hopefully she'll be safe.

 

[Happy Snowman]

Ugh my DD16 had to apply to a community college in our town so she could take post secondary (college classes) in high school next year. She needed her soc number for that application. I hated given it but she did it on her own with the guidance counselor so I'm trusting it was needed.

On another note I just signed her up for Identity theft protection cause her info was compromised during the Anthem Hack, so hopefully she'll be safe.

That is a legitimate reason to give her SS#. I wouldn't worry about giving it to a college she will attend. They need that to track her progress and for any financial aid down the road--and to match up her classes eventually to her high school and college transcripts. Then if she goes on to grad school, it all gets matched by SS#.

 

[runwad]

Thanks Happy Snowman!

 

[Hrhpd]

That is a legitimate reason to give her SS#. I wouldn't worry about giving it to a college she will attend. They need that to track her progress and for any financial aid down the road--and to match up her classes eventually to her high school and college transcripts. Then if she goes on to grad school, it all gets matched by SS#.

False.
Over 20 states, including mine, have banned schools from using Social Security numbers for student and record identification. They issue each student a unique student ID and that is how they "track progress." The only time a school can use a SS number in many states is for financial applications such as financial aid.

 

[Happy Snowman]

False.
Over 20 states, including mine, have banned schools from using Social Security numbers for student and record identification. They issue each student a unique student ID and that is how they "track progress." The only time a school can use a SS number in many states is for financial applications such as financial aid.

Sure, your high school gives them a unique number, your college gives them a different unique number, etc, etc, etc, but that doesn't mean those unique numbers "talk" to each other. The social security number is not their student ID, but they most certainly do collect the social security number.

 

[Hrhpd]

I've heard of some leagues in Little League Baseball where the league administrators not only asked for certified copies of birth certificates as primary proof of age, but where they collected copies and held onto them. I've even heard of some carrying entire collections for a team on a clipboard. Now that's a huge risk in terms of identity theft.

In All Star cheer, because there is so much room for cheating on the age groups, you have to provide a copy of your child's birth certificate which is then uploaded into the USASF's (United States All Star Federation) database.

But we never have to provide a SS# as that is not proof of age.

 

[bcla]

False.
Over 20 states, including mine, have banned schools from using Social Security numbers for student and record identification. They issue each student a unique student ID and that is how they "track progress." The only time a school can use a SS number in many states is for financial applications such as financial aid.

I think universities still can collect SSNs, but generally aren't going to be displaying them in normal stuff like on paper transcripts. It's in the record and a unique identifier that most people will remember.

Now that I look into it, my alma mater no longer charges itself for transcripts, but they work through a service provider that charges a nominal fee. I think the last time I ordered one it was $17. I looked at the current ordering process, and the SSN is required.

 

[Hrhpd]

Sure, your high school gives them a unique number, your college gives them a different unique number, etc, etc, etc, but that doesn't mean those unique numbers "talk" to each other. The social security number is not their student ID, but they most certainly do collect the social security number.

As I said, over 20 states have banned schools from using Social Security numbers for anything other than financial reasons.

You are incorrect in your insistence that all colleges do this. Maybe Minnesota does this, but not every state is allowed to collect social security numbers for record keeping.

 

[Happy Snowman]

As I said, over 20 states have banned schools from collecting Social Security numbers for anything other than financial reasons.

You are incorrect in your insistence that all colleges do this. Maybe Minnesota does this, but not every state is allowed to collect social security numbers for record keeping.

a quick google search says you are wrong...but whatever