Spin-Off of House Hunter Thread: Must Have Home Features

[mousefan73]

Solar is still quite expensive, it's gone down in costs over the years but that cost is a major barrier for people. Weather can still be an issue. I think there is also an issue with transfer in cases of selling the home in terms of utilities or at least that's what someone recently mentioned in our social networking site for our neighborhood. Storage can still be a concern.

A potential solar farm, the largest in my state, is potentially being built as a joint venture between my county and the one next to it but it would be built by a FL based company who has already drew the ire of the residents as they came in strong talking about legalities rather than hearing the concerns of the people. The county next to me would allow the farm to be as close as 500 feet from someone's property while my county would be 1.5 miles. Combined it could be as large as 2 to 3 thousand acre land used with an expected output peak of 320 megawatts IIRC. Ecological concerns are also there due to the impacts to the land for installation and wildlife during the usage of it.

I live in KS where it's one of the best places for solar due to how many average days of sun we get especially middle and west of the state. We don't have a ton of solar stuff in me area (northeastern) but one of the main utilities companies before they merged with another heavily invested in wind farms. It took approximately 7 years before "savings" was there. But wind farms are also applicable here because of our weather, drive around and see as far as the eye can see once you get to rural area as you drive west giant wind farms, of course there's the ecological impact there mostly birds.

I think solar is getting easier but alternative forms of energy aren't magic bullets either for people. They comes with things too.

Actually this is interesting here in our german tiny village it's a huge political thing right now as a guy wants to build a solar farm as a form of investment. That's for reminding me as tonight is another town hall meeting on this. the only thing I recall being stated at the last meeting( I wasnt there but heard details) is that ecologocially it's a good thing as the fields ( which right now are farmed for biofuel) would revert back to wild fields which then helps the whole bug, bees, butterflys... they are set high enough for the fields to grow naturally back. somoething like that. .. But yes solar is expensive up front. but long-term if oyu can get heating/car fueling out of it,, you win in the end.. but one needs the investment up front.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Actually this is interesting here in our german tiny village it's a huge political thing right now as a guy wants to build a solar farm as a form of investment. That's for reminding me as tonight is another town hall meeting on this. the only thing I recall being stated at the last meeting( I wasnt there but heard details) is that ecologocially it's a good thing as the fields ( which right now are farmed for biofuel) would revert back to wild fields which then helps the whole bug, bees, butterflys... they are set high enough for the fields to grow naturally back. somoething like that. .. But yes solar is expensive up front. but long-term if oyu can get heating/car fueling out of it,, you win in the end.. but one needs the investment up front.

In our case because of where they want to put it they would be putting the solar farm in areas that are presently wild/left alone. There is no land around here to put it as it's all mostly developed. Then you have people's actual farms. The concerns from a winery (think small operations not some huge corporate thing) where a portion of the solar farm would be there his concerns were "soil erosion, noise from the battery storage, herbicide applications, property values." There's distrust that this company would indeed keep nature well nature.

There's a big push around here to revert back areas to prairie land by means of clearing our invasive plants and the point of that though is to not put things in it but to have it natural. Native trees would have to be cleared in order for this massive solar farm to be put in.

FWIW getting in with the rural areas are not something unique to my state, rural landowners and residents from all around the nation have similar enough concerns. Up by my in-laws in a neighboring county where it is more rural than my area there is one house we pass that has a solar panel not on their roof but on ground at an angle but they are the only ones in a more rural area I'm around that has that.

The long-term time period for savings aspect of renewable energy is an important factor. It's hard to tell someone to put solar panels up on their house with a large upfront cost when you may move before you see the savings from your investment. At least what I could find online it says the average is 6 to 10 years with some sources saying average in the U.S. more like 8 years. We didn't have a choice that our utility company purchased and installed wind turbines but we were advised of the estimated time frame before it would see any relief on our bills but we would have to pay for those wind turbines on our bills indirectly through requested price increases.

I'm not really for/against/etc in a hard line kind of way. but any time the talk gets going it should also be talked about pros and cons because they all have them, all of our sources of energy do.

 

[mousefan73]

In our case because of where they want to put it they would be putting the solar farm in areas that are presently wild/left alone. There is no land around here to put it as it's all mostly developed. Then you have people's actual farms. The concerns from a winery (think small operations not some huge corporate thing) where a portion of the solar farm would be there his concerns were "soil erosion, noise from the battery storage, herbicide applications, property values." There's distrust that this company would indeed keep nature well nature.

There's a big push around here to revert back areas to prairie land by means of clearing our invasive plants and the point of that though is to not put things in it but to have it natural. Native trees would have to be cleared in order for this massive solar farm to be put in.

FWIW getting in with the rural areas are not something unique to my state, rural landowners and residents from all around the nation have similar enough concerns. Up by my in-laws in a neighboring county where it is more rural than my area there is one house we pass that has a solar panel not on their roof but on ground at an angle but they are the only ones in a more rural area I'm around that has that.

The long-term time period for savings aspect of renewable energy is an important factor. It's hard to tell someone to put solar panels up on their house with a large upfront cost when you may move before you see the savings from your investment. At least what I could find online it says the average is 6 to 10 years with some sources saying average in the U.S. more like 8 years. We didn't have a choice that our utility company purchased and installed wind turbines but we were advised of the estimated time frame before it would see any relief on our bills but we would have to pay for those wind turbines on our bills indirectly through requested price increases.

I'm not really for/against/etc in a hard line kind of way. but any time the talk gets going it should also be talked about pros and cons because they all have them, all of our sources of energy do.

I think that’s also difference between Europe and the US. When people build / biy homes here, it’s usually for a lifetime you don’t have so much movement once you own a home. Here is unheard for a person to move multiple homes over a lifetime in homes they own.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I think that’s also difference between Europe and the US. When people build / biy homes here, it’s usually for a lifetime you don’t have so much movement once you own a home. Here is unheard for a person to move multiple homes over a lifetime in homes they own.

I know people are trending here to living longer in their homes but yeah overall you're still likely to have moved at some point and generally moving more than once.

 

[ronandannette]

@mousefan73 - since you're here, I'm curious about how this winter's heating season went for western Europe? There were highly-publicized concerns about fuel shortages/price spikes due to the Ukranian conflict and sanctions against Russia. Did any of that play out?

 

[mousefan73]

@mousefan73 - since you're here, I'm curious about how this winter's heating season went for western Europe? There were highly-publicized concerns about fuel shortages/price spikes due to the Ukranian conflict and sanctions against Russia. Did any of that play out?

for us here in Germany it wasn't the nightmare as many feared. For one winter itself was mild by us, hardly any days below zero C. Spring was cool and wet. We did pay more for oil but it didnt kill us. Many who had gas were locked in good rates or I believe got some subsidies ( there were rebates etc. for some etc9. Gas prices did go up to heat. but not horror levels. In the fall many state/city ordinances came out to save energy.. like city lights turned off early, no "wasteful" energy. Some local pools closed as to heat them cost too much. public blds/offices lowerd the temp. maybe it helped, or not. Personally I think this didnt make much difference. But it was not the horror show many politicans or media tried to make it out to be.. But again our winter was mild.

 

[mousefan73]

I just remembered... at one point everybody was like we are gonig to run out of natural gas and then was the news " our reserves are too full we have no more space" came out

 

[DLgal]

This is where the US is WAAAAAY far behind and it should be a priority. If I lived in TX ( grid issues) or FL ( storm issues) I would want solar so I am not dependent on any outside energy. All new homes in Germany have some form of solar. The simplist is a panel that heats the boiler. In summer you dont have to turn gas/oil on for hot water. Most brand new homes have PV storage systems. It's an investment.. about 20-30 grand.. but it also stores your energy. So with the right systems you are no longer paying for electricity etc... and can charge your cars for "free" Just my opinion but if you build a home and are looking at the future it might be worth investing in one of these. I know many who produce so much energy they cant use themselves between home and cars ( some PV systems put energy in the grid and you get paid) .. but the storage systems have gotten better. We have an older home and even bought smaller panels that are on our balcony railings to reduce our KW use we pay from the grid.

I think in the US it's also regional. I know many home in CA and AZ that have solar.

In CA, all residential new homes and apartment buildings under 3 stories have to have solar panels on the roofs. This went into effect on Jan 1, 2020.

 

[Lumpy1106]

The next problem with eliminating gas for cars is personal cars subsidize repairs and construction to the roads - heavily. Passenger cars do not cause much more wear-and-tear to roads than bikes do - it's essential trucks and buses that do almost all the damage. Not only that, but those funds that are supposed to only go to the roads get siphoned off at an alarming rate. Sure, this is sometimes mass transit, but it can also be bike lanes, but then aren't parks full of bike lanes? And if roads and mass transit and parks are all funded by gas taxes, well, they don't need such a large line item in the annual budget. See the game?

OK, well, now mix in plug-in cars to the equation that don't pay gas taxes. Now how do you pay for the roads? Get ready for mileage taxes and more toll roads. It's already happening and has been since way before the first Tesla. You know those HOV diamond lanes? You do know that they were never intended to reduce traffic, right? They are more and more being more accurately called "managed lanes", meaning they are being reserved for toll collection.

I'll let somebody else go into details about solar but I do know that every time I have looked into it my payback on the investment was around 30-40 years - that's a non-starter. Add to that, recently there's been changes such that if you generate more electricity than you use, you get paid back what it cost to produce the electricity, not what you would pay for it. That makes it unfeasible to have a system larger than what you typically use, and also makes the batteries a much more attractive add on (with $$ to match). Too bad, I've got nearly perfect south-facing roofs on my house and separate garage in sunny So Cal. But, I also live near the beach so I don't have AC or a pool, and use almost no heat. Insulation is decidedly un-sexy, but when we added a second floor on our house we also added insulation. We doubled the square footage of the house and our electricity bill went down.

 

[bluezy]

...

I'll let somebody else go into details about solar but I do know that every time I have looked into it my payback on the investment was around 30-40 years - that's a non-starter. Add to that, recently there's been changes such that if you generate more electricity than you use, you get paid back what it cost to produce the electricity, not what you would pay for it. That makes it unfeasible to have a system larger than what you typically use, and also makes the batteries a much more attractive add on (with $$ to match). Too bad, I've got nearly perfect south-facing roofs on my house and separate garage in sunny So Cal. But, I also live near the beach so I don't have AC or a pool, and use almost no heat. Insulation is decidedly un-sexy, but when we added a second floor on our house we also added insulation. We doubled the square footage of the house and our electricity bill went down.

Exactly -- the payback is too long for us to consider adding solar to our home. We've looked into it a few times over the last 7 or 8 years and it always ends up that the payback is about 8-10 years longer than we plan to be in this house. Our house is 20 years old but has excellent insulation and windows so our energy costs are very low. Other friends who have similar sized homes are shocked at how little we spend on electricity and oil in a year. That's most likely because they all live in cookie-cutter housing developments where the quality of materials is not great. We had our home custom built and the builder's "standard" materials were what our friends in developments would have had to pay the top-tier pricing for. Yet our house is about the same square footage as all of theirs and our building cost was actually lower. You get what you pay for. But even with the low energy costs in our house, if we could install solar panels and have less than a 10 year payback, we'd probably do it in a heartbeat.

And I also agree with the price you get paid for excess electricity. My SIL and her DH took advantage of tax breaks and rebates offered in their state at the time and installed solar panels on their home about 7 years ago. Their payback on the system was about 6 years so it was a no-brainer as they planned to be in the house for at least 10 more years at the time of installation. Then that buy-back pricing change went into effect and they quickly realized that it was more beneficial for them to *use* the electricity than to sell it back. So they (after saying for years and years and years that they didn't need this...and trust me, they *did* need it) had central air installed in their home and changed from a gas water heater to electric (when it needed to be replaced). They also use the heater on their pool more often now. And in the winter, they keep their house at a reasonably warm temperature as opposed to the "we can't afford to turn up the heat" temperature. I seriously needed to wear gloves and very heavy sweatshirts/sweaters in their house when we visited in the winter before they got solar panels. They kept the house at 58 degrees.