Spin off... if your child gifted?

[dngnb8]

Again, people are confusing a good student with a Gifted student.

This is correct

There is a BIG difference and just because you are in a program that is labeled "gifted" doesn't mean you really are--it means that you are one of the better students in your class....

The "Gifted" identification process has come a long way. At least in AZ, the misconception of High Performance and Gifted are being clearly defined.

Advanced Placement is not "just" for gifted. Many gifted kids cannot perform in the AP environment and dont pass those classes. Being gifted is not an automatic pass in AP. Being gifted is not an automatic success in school. Many gifted children under perform, especially if they are in the general population.

 

[penn19]

Along with children who are under performing.



I get it. I disagree, therefore I must be a troll. Typical response from someone who cant rebuke my position.

There are MANY "protected" people. They are "protected" because of prejudice.

Gratz on showing why they need the protection.

I am saying troll because people are posting on here about WHY there are eye rolls etc....and all you can say is we are all prejudiced. That is your defense of the topic. It's like pulling the race card. But instead you are creating a whole nother prejudice. The Gifted card.

 

[SLK1]

Anyone can take an AP class in our high school. AP classes boost your GPA, which counts for getting into college, and if you pass the AP final exam (with a 3, 4, or 5...and sometimes a 3 doesn't count for some classes/colleges), you are exempt from that equivalent class in college. Being "gifted" doesn't get you anywhere in the AP class. Your high IQ isn't doesn't mean you're going to take good notes, read chapters, and study properly. In fact, sometimes gifted kids take so many things for granted, because they often skate through school in the lower grades, that once they hit college level classes, they have NO idea how to do well. On the other hand, kids who have had to work hard to make good grades already know what it's going to take and often have those skills in place to do really well.

I believe a "gifted" status helps students in elementary school and maybe middle school. They're typically fast learners who are ready to move on to the next level before the rest of the class. They also "think outside the box" and enjoy doing more creative assignments and expanding on the regular curriculum. I don't think anyone should begrudge this to a child (so much animosity is directed at the parents who like to shout from the rooftops that their kid is gifted; it's not directed at the child). But once you hit late middle/high school, your gifted status pretty much means nothing. You certainly don't put it on a college application, you don't put it on your resume, and frankly, no one cares.

 

[dngnb8]

I am saying troll because people are posting on here about WHY there are eye rolls etc....

???

and all you can say is we are all prejudiced. That is your defense of the topic.

Then youre not reading. Go back and read my posts instead of your knee jerk responses. Reading Comprehension is your friend

It's like pulling the race card. But instead you are creating a whole nother prejudice. The Gifted card.

Prejudice

1.A An adverse judgment or opinion formed beforehand or without knowledge or examination of the facts.

1.B A preconceived preference or idea.

2 The act or state of holding unreasonable preconceived judgments or convictions. See Synonyms at predilection.

3 Irrational suspicion or hatred of a particular group, race, or religion.

4 Detriment or injury caused to a person by the preconceived, unfavorable conviction of another or others.

There is no such thing as Whole New. Prejudice isnt categorized. Youre 1.a

Your lack of information is astounding.

 

[Magpie]

Learning skills is learning skills, whether those skills are academic, or athletic. Ive coached many many kids in sports. Some learn by example, some learn by reading, some learn by doing.

Yes, that's true, but learning style has nothing to do with IQ. Children of all levels of intelligence have different learning styles. And saying, "My child is gifted," tells us absolutely nothing about how that child learns, or what athletic potential they might have, or even the quality of their character.

 

[taylor3297]

I used to be a coodinator for the academically gifted at a middle school. Here is something I always shared with parents to give them an idea of the difference between high achiever, gifted learner, and a creative thinker. In the end though I would always stress that all students need to be challenged no matter what. Through differentiation many students can be reached.

If you are interested in seeing the chart, scroll to the bottom of the page of this link; http://www.bertiekingore.com/high-gt-create.htm

 

[dngnb8]

Yes, that's true, but learning style has nothing to do with IQ. Children of all levels of intelligence have different learning styles. And saying, "My child is gifted," tells us absolutely nothing about how that child learns, or what athletic potential they might have, or even the quality of their character.

I wholly agree, but I am sure, if the parent is educated, that wasnt the only thing said.

And the difference between public school and extracurricular activities is that children HAVE to go to school. Their choices are limited, and not addressing their educational needs can do real harm to them. But with extracurriculars, it's far easier to find a sport that suits the child. No one's forcing your child to fit in. If they're bored, they can leave. There are no grades, and your child is usually not measured against a set standard - only against what they can achieve through their own efforts.

Who said the sport didnt suit the child? All the parent was saying is, when coaching, be aware of how this child learns.

Honestly, going around saying to people, "Hi, I'm gifted!" is no different than walking around all the time saying, "Hi, I can run a mile in less than four minutes!" It's nice. You're a talented runner. But frankly, unless you're talking to a track and field coach, no one cares! And even then, how much better would it have been to just get on the field and run, instead of bragging about it?

Who said she was bragging? Again, just because a parent identifies the child by the designation that has been assigned, doesnt mean she is EPeening.

Every child deserves an appropriate academic education. "Gifted" and "learning disabled" are labels that allow us to sort out the kids who need something different from the mainstream. We have a responsibility to figure out what works for them, and help them make the most of their potential. But on the sports field, just as in the real working world, all of that falls to the side. It's not what you ARE, it's what you DO that matters.

And what the child can do is based on learning. Why is it so bad for the parent to let the coach know how her child learns?

Why must the square child be forced to learn in the round hole? I still dont understand this. Im not being obtuse. I hate the term gifted. Had we called these kids special education needs, people wouldnt be showing so much acrimony.

 

[dngnb8]

I used to be a coodinator for the academically gifted at a middle school. Here is something I always shared with parents to give them an idea of the difference between high achiever, gifted learner, and a creative thinker. In the end though I would always stress that all students need to be challenged no matter what. Through differentiation many students can be reached.

If you are interested in seeing the chart, scroll to the bottom of the page of this link; http://www.bertiekingore.com/high-gt-create.htm

<snip>These students and teachers found the following cartoons helpful in understanding the comparison since high achievers, gifted learners, and creative thinkers co-exist in many classrooms. In the first cartoon, the teacher announces an assignment, and the high achiever quickly tries to determine what the teacher most wants so he can please and satisfy the teacher's intentions: "What do you really want?" The gifted learner ponders what to do that would most interest her as she learns: "What I would like to do is..." Simultaneously, the creative thinker's mind begins to race with all of the diverse and varied possibilities that could be explored:

Later, in the second cartoon, the teacher poses a question to the class. The high achiever is delighted because he knows the answer and is in control: "Oh, I know that answer!" The gifted learner considers multiple nuances and alternative perspectives: "The question could mean..." or "It might suggest..." or "Another way to say that is..." or "Yah, but..." The creative thinker is still obsessed with the seemingly endless possibilities of the earlier assignment, concentrating so much on his ideas that he completely misses the teacher's question:

</snip>

The chart at the bottom I am not able to link, but is a good comparison of the 3 thinkers

 

[taylor3297]

<snip>These students and teachers found the following cartoons helpful in understanding the comparison since high achievers, gifted learners, and creative thinkers co-exist in many classrooms. In the first cartoon, the teacher announces an assignment, and the high achiever quickly tries to determine what the teacher most wants so he can please and satisfy the teacher's intentions: "What do you really want?" The gifted learner ponders what to do that would most interest her as she learns: "What I would like to do is..." Simultaneously, the creative thinker's mind begins to race with all of the diverse and varied possibilities that could be explored:

Later, in the second cartoon, the teacher poses a question to the class. The high achiever is delighted because he knows the answer and is in control: "Oh, I know that answer!" The gifted learner considers multiple nuances and alternative perspectives: "The question could mean..." or "It might suggest..." or "Another way to say that is..." or "Yah, but..." The creative thinker is still obsessed with the seemingly endless possibilities of the earlier assignment, concentrating so much on his ideas that he completely misses the teacher's question:

</snip>

Keep scrolling until you get to the nice chart.

 

[dngnb8]

Keep scrolling until you get to the nice chart.

The chart is spot on in learning styles. I would love to see one with the personality styles too.

 

[Magpie]

I wholly agree, but I am sure, if the parent is educated, that wasnt the only thing said.



Who said the sport didnt suit the child? All the parent was saying is, when coaching, be aware of how this child learns.



Who said she was bragging? Again, just because a parent identifies the child by the designation that has been assigned, doesnt mean she is EPeening.



And what the child can do is based on learning. Why is it so bad for the parent to let the coach know how her child learns?

Why must the square child be forced to learn in the round hole? I still dont understand this. Im not being obtuse. I hate the term gifted. Had we called these kids special education needs, people wouldnt be showing so much acrimony.

Darn it, I deleted most of that response!

I felt we were going around in circles, so I didn't see the point of rattling on and on about it.

I guess my feeling is that...

1. "My child is gifted," is not only a basically useless statement in baseball, it's also guaranteed to get the coach to stop listening to you.

2. Besides, gifted children learn in a myriad of different ways. So, tell the coach something more useful instead (like, "My child has a tendency to over-explain things and she talks too much. We're working on it.") and consider this preparation for real life.

3. A coach, unlike a classroom teacher, is NOT obliged to adapt their coaching style to your child. It's nice if they do, but they won't do it because your child is "gifted". They'll do it because they've worked with your child and figured out for themselves what your individual child needs. And if they don't - find another coach or play another sport!

4. I actually wasn't trying to say that the mother who announced her kid was gifted was bragging. (I know that's a hot button word, and I shouldn't have used it.) I don't know that mum's motivations at all. But I do know that walking onto a field and announcing, "Hi, everyone! I can run a four minute mile!" is definitely bragging. Demonstrating it is not. When it comes to sports, I expect my children to demonstrate their talents (assuming they have any).

 

[taylor3297]

The chart is spot on in learning styles. I would love to see one with the personality styles too.

Personality styles are important too, though I don't have one handy for that. The chart just helps to explain to parents the difference. It is a great starting point. Is it the "answer" for what is or isn't "gifted"? Nope!

I will say during my time of working with kids that were labeled "gifted" in our school system, I only really worked with a few who would be considered truly gifted. Many were bright/high achievers, but the school system wanted to make sure they were also being challenged and their abilities being developed to their full potential.

 

[dngnb8]

Darn it, I deleted most of that response!

I felt we were going around in circles, so I didn't see the point of rattling on and on about it.

I guess my feeling is that...

I dont think so. I think we are clarifying.

1. "My child is gifted," is not only a basically useless statement in baseball, it's also guaranteed to get the coach to stop listening to you.

I wholly agree. And if the parent is truly educated about it, I doubt she/he would have said that. Ignorance works both ways. Just because the child "may" be gifted, doesnt mean the parents are.

2. Besides, gifted children learn in a myriad of different ways. So, tell the coach something more useful instead (like, "My child has a tendency to over-explain things and she talks too much. We're working on it.") and consider this preparation for real life.

Again, we agree. This comes from a parent who educates them self in what their childs needs are. It has been said that many parents are being told their child is gifted, when they are a high achiever. Not all in the education field understand the differences and this contributes to the problem

3. A coach, unlike a classroom teacher, is NOT obliged to adapt their coaching style to your child. It's nice if they do, but they won't do it because your child is "gifted". They'll do it because they've worked with your child and figured out for themselves what your individual child needs. And if they don't - find another coach or play another sport!

Again, we agree, however, raising the issue doesnt hurt. As a coach, parents always had access to me. That didnt necessarily mean I did what they.... asked (demanded in some cases)

4. I actually wasn't trying to say that the mother who announced her kid was gifted was bragging. (I know that's a hot button word, and I shouldn't have used it.) I don't know that mum's motivations at all. But I do know that walking onto a field and announcing, "Hi, everyone! I can run a four minute mile!" is definitely bragging. Demonstrating it is not. When it comes to sports, I expect my children to demonstrate their talents (assuming they have any).

Again, we agree. Where my children and when coaching, players are concerned, I teach them to act like they have been there.

 

[Magpie]

Again, we agree, however, raising the issue doesnt hurt. As a coach, parents always had access to me. That didnt necessarily mean I did what they.... asked (demanded in some cases)

It's nice we're in agreement!

The only thing I've got to add is that sometimes raising the issue does hurt, especially when people think you're asking them to make an exception for your child or treat them special.

BTW, it's not just the gifted thing. Bringing up learning disabilities in inappropriate circumstances (like mentioning your child's dysgraphia in swim class) can also bite you on the butt.

Me, I let my children's coach bring up the issue first. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. Less often, now that my kids are older.

And sometimes, even when they DO bring it up, it's better to say nothing. Like when my son's swim coach was going on about him knowing the physiology behind drowning and saying, "I didn't learn that until high school!" I didn't say, "He's gifted." Instead, I said, "Yeah, he really enjoys science. It's great! So... How's his swimming coming along?"

 

[penn19]

???



Then youre not reading. Go back and read my posts instead of your knee jerk responses. Reading Comprehension is your friend



Prejudice

1.A An adverse judgment or opinion formed beforehand or without knowledge or examination of the facts.

1.B A preconceived preference or idea.

2 The act or state of holding unreasonable preconceived judgments or convictions. See Synonyms at predilection.

3 Irrational suspicion or hatred of a particular group, race, or religion.

4 Detriment or injury caused to a person by the preconceived, unfavorable conviction of another or others.

There is no such thing as Whole New. Prejudice isnt categorized. Youre 1.a

Your lack of information is astounding.

Thank you and have a great day.

 

[golfgal]

Anyone can take an AP class in our high school. AP classes boost your GPA, which counts for getting into college, and if you pass the AP final exam (with a 3, 4, or 5...and sometimes a 3 doesn't count for some classes/colleges), you are exempt from that equivalent class in college. Being "gifted" doesn't get you anywhere in the AP class. Your high IQ isn't doesn't mean you're going to take good notes, read chapters, and study properly. In fact, sometimes gifted kids take so many things for granted, because they often skate through school in the lower grades, that once they hit college level classes, they have NO idea how to do well. On the other hand, kids who have had to work hard to make good grades already know what it's going to take and often have those skills in place to do really well.

I believe a "gifted" status helps students in elementary school and maybe middle school. They're typically fast learners who are ready to move on to the next level before the rest of the class. They also "think outside the box" and enjoy doing more creative assignments and expanding on the regular curriculum. I don't think anyone should begrudge this to a child (so much animosity is directed at the parents who like to shout from the rooftops that their kid is gifted; it's not directed at the child). But once you hit late middle/high school, your gifted status pretty much means nothing. You certainly don't put it on a college application, you don't put it on your resume, and frankly, no one cares.

Not to nitpick, but it ins't the AP final exam that you need to pass, it is the National AP test-they are very different things. In our kids' AP classes they are given a final exam that is part of their grade at school. The AP exam is outside of this completely--again, you don't need to take the AP class to take an AP test even. AP test results come back in July--it isn't likely that schools will alter grades based on this score either (possible but not likely).


As for the "gifted" kids being fast learners, etc., true but it doesn't mean they are gifted (EXCEPTIONAL learners as defined). It means they are good students that learn quickly. Back when we were in school these kids were "advanced students". Back in the 90's when everything was focused on 'self-esteem" these programs got retitled to "gifted" to make parents feel better about themselves. . Ask the "gifted" coordinator at your school how many kids in the program are TRULY gifted and how many are just really good students.

 

[auntpoly]

Agreed. A boy on my ds sports team is "gifted". How do I know? His mom told the coach that her gifted child needed to be coached differently then the other players Because he was gifted. Why should that even come up in conversation. The kid was just a sullen, over indulged ( because he was gifted I presume) child.

I think parents actually talk to coaches and teachers too much. Sometimes things just need to be worked out by the coach/teacher and the kid. Why all the explaining about the child? What parents are doing is asking for special treatement. "My child needs things to be coached differently" - no he doesn't. He needs to learn how to be part of a team. He needs to learn how to be coached by and work with people he isn't used to.

People really mess their kids up. My daughter is always talking about how spoiled the kids are entering the workplace these days and it's no wonder why. They think they can just explain why they aren't doing their jobs right and that makes everything OK.

 

[Magpie]

Ask the "gifted" coordinator at your school how many kids in the program are TRULY gifted and how many are just really good students.

Well, I'm pretty sure the answer isn't going to be "we have no TRULY gifted children in our gifted program, but we have several TRULY gifted athletes in our sports program."

 

[Magpie]

I think parents actually talk to coaches and teachers too much. Sometimes things just need to be worked out by the coach/teacher and the kid. Why all the explaining about the child? What parents are doing is asking for special treatement. "My child needs things to be coached differently" - no he doesn't. He needs to learn how to be part of a team. He needs to learn how to be coached by and work with people he isn't used to.

People really mess their kids up. My daughter is always talking about how spoiled the kids are entering the workplace these days and it's no wonder why. They think they can just explain why they aren't doing their jobs right and that makes everything OK.

Parents talk too much, and they also talk too little.

An example of talking too little, "Oh, I didn't think I needed to tell you my son is ADD and we take weekends off from his meds. You don't suppose that's why he's having trouble earning his green belt, do you?" *facepalm*

An example of talking too much, "My child is an Indigo Child. They're more creative and intense than other children and the rules don't apply to them. I don't see why she should have to spend time after class straightening up the dojo with all the other children. That's demeaning."

However, I don't think parents these days are any worse than they ever were (or any better!). We've been complaining about kids and their parents since the beginning of recorded history.

 

[SLK1]

Not to nitpick, but it ins't the AP final exam that you need to pass, it is the National AP test-they are very different things. In our kids' AP classes they are given a final exam that is part of their grade at school. The AP exam is outside of this completely--again, you don't need to take the AP class to take an AP test even. AP test results come back in July--it isn't likely that schools will alter grades based on this score either (possible but not likely).

Yes, I neglected to say the "National AP Test". Quite familiar with them actually!