Southwest Early Bird Checkin

[crashbb]

But, Bicker, in your analogy the fact that you and your wife enjoy "bad" science fiction (and, for full disclosure, I must admit that I find "good" science fiction to be an oxymoron) doesn't (or shouldn't) make a difference to anybody else. Unless you insist that only the movies that you like are shown at the theatre (or sold on DVD) or the other camp is doing that, then it is just down to preference.

Here, on the other hand, the views and actions of one group different affect the other group.

So, while I agree that your movie scenario is one in which a discussion doesn't have much value (other than for the sake of argument, which, in some situations can be interesting), the airplane scenario is not one in which the discussion is simply academic.

 

[Lewisc]

Every couple would like aisle/window seats with an empty middle seat between them but we're not willing to pay what it would cost for an airline to profitably offer that seating.

Flights to Orlando are filled with famlies. It is inevitable that some family members will wind up being separated. Airlines are reducing the number of flights to Orlando so the flights can fly "full". Passengers can improve their odds by booking an airline with assigned seats and only booking a flight that has suitable seats. If you can't see the seat chart until you book (and you can't reserve suitable seats) call immediately. Almost every airline will let you cancel (without penalty) if you call immediately. Some will even give you until midnight or even 24 hours.

I sort of agree with previous posters. I'm not sure why SW couldn't have announced this new program a couple of days earlier, a day before they extended their schedule instead of a day after.

This is a fee for a new service. SW checks in passengers who pay for this service. It's an alternative to passengers having to check themselves in. Probably why SW didn't have to give notice.

Bicker--You made a good point, some posters don't want to engage in a discussion. They want to vent.

 

[ironz]

They're losing me as a customer because of the way this was rolled out for one, and also because it's not worth the stress of it all to me. I know life isn't fair, but it just doesn't seem right to change the rules on people who've had their flights booked for months. When airlines add their fees, they usually add them on flights booked from x date forward...not on existing bookings. It would bother me less if SWA had done that...

...

Also, my anger in my response, I think is more directed to the other thread about this going on (maybe on the Family Board??)...I just read back a bunch of pages here & there are less of those heated responses on this thread. For that, I apologize.

And I hope you're right...that they won't separate the parents from their young children...but they're not exactly instilling my confidence in them right now. And listening to everyone's "what if's" isn't helping me any, either. I should stop reading...but I just can't tear myself away.

I'm sure this flight will go smoothly...I keep telling myself that. I am most definitely not the only one in this situation, that gives me some comfort. A lot of the parents w/ small children are experiencing the same feelings I am, I'm sure.

Avonlady....I feel for you and your anxiety issues, really. But take a deep breath and STOP. Now think about it rationally. For YOU, with children 4 and under, NOTHING HAS REALLY CHANGED.

Before EBCI....you were going to sign on at T-24 or whenever you chose, and....you "may" have gotten an A boarding pass, or if there were a bunch of people coming from earlier connecting flights, you may have ended up with a B pass. So you would have boarded with "A" if you got that, but if not, you are eligible for the family boarding between A1-60 and B1-60. So your worst case scenario is still board BEFORE B1-60.

NOW...you don't even have to pay the EBCI extra $. You can sign on to check in at T-24, and....you "may" get an A boarding pass (you don't know that they are all going to be gone!), or you may get a "B" or even "C." But...guess what? Your worst case scenario is STILL that you are eligible for family boarding between the A's and B's.

Think about it. Breathe. Relax. You will be next to your infant. Unless you have a magic baby who can toddle down the aisle with his car seat and end up separated from you. You might not be in the front row, but who cares? Everyone gets to MCO at about the same time. In fact, people joke about the back of the plane landing first.

And even though we frequent fliers won't promise you pixie dust, how about a hug?


now I return the rest of you to the usual hysteria.

 

[bicker]

But, Bicker, in your analogy the fact that you and your wife enjoy "bad" science fiction (and, for full disclosure, I must admit that I find "good" science fiction to be an oxymoron) doesn't (or shouldn't) make a difference to anybody else.

It does to them. Again, what's critical is respecting other people enough to let them have their own values, even if they're different from your own. (If you want, PM me and I'll provide you links to some of the threads where my preferences with regard to science fiction actually did "make a difference", in the manner we're speaking of, to others.

I just had another example of this, in a related area of interest, with some people taking great offense to the criteria some other people have for calling something "home theater".

Here, on the other hand, the views and actions of one group different affect the other group.

(Again, PM me if you're interested... you'll see how these other folks perceive my preferences as having impact on them.)

 

[goofy4tink]

To be fair, not everyone wants to engage these types of issues from a rational, reasonable perspective. Let me draw a parallel to a situation where I find myself on the other side of the fence: My wife and I watch a lot of science fiction type shows. However, we don't really care for the hardcore science-techie stuff. Now, that criterion, "fiction grounded in reality," is a fundamental criterion many science fiction fans have, differentiated between "good" science fiction and "bad" science fiction. Strictly speaking, they're "correct" -- the stuff my wife and I like is "bad" according to their rational, reasonable criteria. However, what my wife and I care about is how much we enjoy what we are watching, and specifically not how believable it is with regard to fair standards. In that scenario (the context of what we like), we value our emotional (perhaps "overly" emotional) conclusion.

Of course, you know me. I fully respect the right of others to judge things, for themselves, based on their own criteria, as long as they don't seek to judge those things, for others, based on those criteria. More importantly, I don't claim that what I like is "right" and what I don't like is "wrong". That transform, from "like" to "right" and from "don't like" to "wrong" is where things get -- icky. It is a demonstration of overt disrespect for people who are just as reasonable but have different values. But I find I can just overlook it. I think your contributions here are very valuable, and I hope you can see your way to overlook these things as well, and stay with us.

You know...sometimes you just lose me!! I think I'm understanding you, then I get to a point and go..huh??? But, I think I agree with your post! Too funny. Must be that my old head is too full of stuff to understand sometimes.

I have to admit that "evil poopyheads" is extremely low on my list of "things I expect bavaria to say"!



Wouldn't that be refreshing?

Believe me...poopyhead is a common occurance around here. And who do you think started it??? Yup...our friend.

You know guys. Bavaria has a valid point, and not about being an 'evil poopyhead'!!. There is plenty of room for all views and opinions. But there isn't room for those who feel their way is the only way. For instance....I boarded a SW flight a few years back. It was before the numbered A, B and C system came into being. You got to the gate early and you staked out your spot in line. So...I took turns with my dd, waiting in the A group, about 8 people back from the front. Well, we watched this one woman walking around the gate area with her child..a boy of about 7 or so. She was there at least an hour before boarding, with the B area still pretty empty. By about 35 mins before boarding time, the B group still had room, with C being empty. Well....boarding time came. We all boarded the plane. The plane was ready to close doors and taxi. BUT...no, we had to stop the process. This woman came running onto the plane. And of course, it was a full flight, so no seats together for her and her ds. The FA made an announcement that they would really like it if someone would move so the mother could be seated with her child. No one moved. Then the FA said that the plane wasn't moving until that mother was seated next to her child. Yes, a couple flying together gave up their seats and had to split up.
Now...I have no idea if this young boy had some kind of issues that prevented him from waiting in line, in order to get into the B group, or even the early C grouping. But, that mother was there in plenty of time, yet she never once tried to get into a boarding group. You would think that if her child had some kind of medical issue, she could have gotten a doctor's note to allow him to preboard as a medical need passenger. But no, she inconvenienced the entire plane, making us wait before taking off, so she could be seated next to her son.
But, there are situations where many people would move to another seat in order to help out a parent. And they do so happily.
The problem is that on message boards, we see too many people who state that they are entitled to sit with their children and other's will need to move so they can get what they want. And that's just not fair. No one is more entitled than anyone else when it comes to seating. In fact, if someone pays more to get advanced seating then they actually are more entitled than the parent who refuses to pay that extra fee but feels that they can ask someone to move, simply because they have a child.

Most info given out here is factual and tried and true. This is why the whole 'no pixie dust on the transportation board' statement exists. Isn't it far better to know, going into a situation, what your options are going to be? Wouldn't you rather know what to expect? It seems that there are a fair number of posters that come here, ask their question, and when they get an answer that they don't like, or one that is contrary to what they were hoping to hear, they go all 'everyone was mean to me' and 'this is why there is no pixie dust here'. Nothing could be further from the truth. You may not like the answers, but you can be sure they are factual and based on existing experiences. There is no 'here's hoping you get what you want' here. Transportation is pretty black and white, like it or not.
So....no finger pointing, no name calling, no entitlement mentality. Keep things pleasant and informative. Play nicely or 'poopyhead moderator' will get cranky.

 

[bicker]

Bicker--You made a good point, some posters don't want to engage in a discussion. They want to vent.

Yes, and that's perfectly fine until folks venting refuse to acknowledge that what they're doing is venting (i.e., that what they're highlighting is a matter of them not liking something, rather than is something someone else is doing wrong... again that transform of "don't like" into "wrong"). Sometimes I wonder if it would be better to have a way of splitting each thread into separate sub-threads, coming off the OP: (A) Sympathy with the OP; (B) Bavaria's "reasonable, rational" thread.

 

[bicker]

You know...sometimes you just lose me!! I think I'm understanding you, then I get to a point and go..huh??? But, I think I agree with your post! Too funny. Must be that my old head is too full of stuff to understand sometimes.

I think often the problem is that saying things more clearly is way too often misconstrued into something for which an infraction is assessed. I was a victim of that (in another forum) earlier this week. The infraction system has a lot of very positive effects, but obviously it also has its down-sides, like anything in life, and one of the down-sides is that thoughtful people have to be more careful about what wording they use to express that "reasonable, rational" perspective that Bavaria mentioned..

In fact, if someone pays more to get advanced seating then they actually are more entitled than the parent who refuses to pay that extra fee but feels that they can ask someone to move, simply because they have a child.

Yes. I often talk about "entitlement" as if is always a bad thing, but the reality is that there is "entitlement mentality" which is based on unfounded expectations (people feeling entitled when they really are not) and an actual entitlement, when someone is asserting that they deserve something which they were explicitly promised, often in writing, often in return for paying extra. The latter type of entitlement is, of course, absolutely justified.

This is why the whole 'no pixie dust on the transportation board' statement exists.

Something that really would benefit folks if it was the general rule, on all online forums, everywhere, IMHO. Probably the biggest sources of dissatisfaction I've noted is folks saying, "But I read on the Internet that I'm (and here's the magic word again) entitled to . . . " Now, what would people really have preferred: (1) To know what they were really entitled to going into the situation? or (2) To have unfounded expectations fostered by what they "read on the Internet" only to be suprised and disappointed when those expectations were not placated? I don't know about others, but I prefer #1.

Isn't it far better to know, going into a situation, what your options are going to be? Wouldn't you rather know what to expect?

I swear that I wrote what I wrote in the paragraph above before I read what you wrote here. And I suppose that I could have deleted what I wrote but I didn't just to underscore the point.

 

[safetymom]

I can understand wanting to vent about a situation. But the airline puts out information to help make an informed travel decision. The airlines today aren't interested in how to make your flight a pleasant one. The airlines are struggling to survive in this era of low cost fares demanded by consumers.

I don't know how any airline could roll out a new program or fee without someone moaning it isn't fair. Whether they announce 6 months in advance or only a few days someone will have a reason why it isn't fair for them to do so.

You have a choice. You take a look at the fares and fees and decide what works for you and your family. If you are concerned about not sitting together you make choices. You can pay the fee to have a very good chance of sitting together or you take your chances. Since this new fee is on an airline with a very good cancellation policy you can always go to another airline.

When I am traveling for personal reasons with my adult daughter we make sure we had assigned seats together. Why? Because I didn't get to see her as often as I would have liked. So for us it was a very easy decision to fly an airline that assigned seats so we didn't need to be separated. Now it might appear that we are two adults that could be separated but I didn't make my travel decisions only to be separated. If there was a very good reason we would do it of course. But as others have said don't demand that I move because you didn't take the time to ensure that your family would be seated together.

I would much rather have the facts when traveling than someone tell me don't worry about it someone will move for you. That is what the transportation board is all about. Some of us that are frequent flyers are trying to make it easier for you when traveling.

 

[keishashadow]

sign me up for the poopyhead posse

IMO if a passenger pays extra for EB they should

* be seated before family preboards, who have exactly the same opportunity to purchase said EB to guarantee availability to sit with their youngins. If it is their true priority to sit next to their children, it shouldn't be an issue despite the cost...cut back on a few mickey bars.

&

* EB purchasers should know where they will land in the boarding process (as in guarantee @ least a B spot or an option is given to fully refund the EB fee).

For me, it's not that the EB fee is an extra cost, i'd gladly pay it if i knew i wouldn't be stuck in C boarding. I can play by the rules, just need them spelled out & enforced. The concept of buying something, without any firm disclosure of exactly what i'll receive, reminds me of something my Dad would always say..."don't buy a pig in a poke"

 

[SamSam]

I can understand wanting to vent about a situation. But the airline puts out information to help make an informed travel decision. The airlines today aren't interested in how to make your flight a pleasant one. The airlines are struggling to survive in this era of low cost fares demanded by consumers.

I don't know how any airline could roll out a new program or fee without someone moaning it isn't fair. Whether they announce 6 months in advance or only a few days someone will have a reason why it isn't fair for them to do so.

You have a choice. You take a look at the fares and fees and decide what works for you and your family. If you are concerned about not sitting together you make choices. You can pay the fee to have a very good chance of sitting together or you take your chances. Since this new fee is on an airline with a very good cancellation policy you can always go to another airline.

When I am traveling for personal reasons with my adult daughter we make sure we had assigned seats together. Why? Because I didn't get to see her as often as I would have liked. So for us it was a very easy decision to fly an airline that assigned seats so we didn't need to be separated. Now it might appear that we are two adults that could be separated but I didn't make my travel decisions only to be separated. If there was a very good reason we would do it of course. But as others have said don't demand that I move because you didn't take the time to ensure that your family would be seated together.

I would much rather have the facts when traveling than someone tell me don't worry about it someone will move for you. That is what the transportation board is all about. Some of us that are frequent flyers are trying to make it easier for you when traveling.

Well said!

 

[girlpenguin]

Just wanted to let everyone know that I paid for the EB checkin for our flight to Orlando that leaves tomorrow morning. I checked in a short while ago and our group of 5 got seats A20-24. I am happy! We'll see what our experience is like when we fly back from Orlando on Friday the 18th.

 

[Hannathy]

sign me up for the poopyhead posse

IMO if a passenger pays extra for EB they should

* be seated before family preboards, who have exactly the same opportunity to purchase said EB to guarantee availability to sit with their youngins. If it is their true priority to sit next to their children, it shouldn't be an issue despite the cost...cut back on a few mickey bars.

&

* EB purchasers should know where they will land in the boarding process (as in guarantee @ least a B spot or an option is given to fully refund the EB fee).

For me, it's not that the EB fee is an extra cost, i'd gladly pay it if i knew i wouldn't be stuck in C boarding. I can play by the rules, just need them spelled out & enforced. The concept of buying something, without any firm disclosure of exactly what i'll receive, reminds me of something my Dad would always say..."don't buy a pig in a poke"

I agree 100%

Imagine that taking full responsibility for procuring what is important to you and not expecting it just to be given to you because you are entitled to it or feel you are "more special" than everyone else. wow what a concept........

 

[cherbear]

Just wanted to let everyone know that I paid for the EB checkin for our flight to Orlando that leaves tomorrow morning. I checked in a short while ago and our group of 5 got seats A20-24. I am happy! We'll see what our experience is like when we fly back from Orlando on Friday the 18th.

thanks for the info. Where are you flying FROM?

 

[Nennie]

I'm hoping this will all be much ado about nothing.

Many people don't even realize that you can check in at T24, and end up getting their BPs printed at the airport within hours of their flight. I think that even less people are going to know about the EB option.

Heck, if it wasn't for the Dis and FT, I wouldn't know about it, and I fly to WDW in 10 days. I'm betting that most people on my flight won't know about it either. I guess we shall see what happens when I log in at T24!

We have to remember that we are the advanced researchers, etc, when it comes to travel, and most people are completely uninformed. So lets keep it that way! LOL!!!

 

[blissventure]

I'm hoping this will all be much ado about nothing.

Many people don't even realize that you can check in at T24, and end up getting their BPs printed at the airport within hours of their flight. I think that even less people are going to know about the EB option.

Heck, if it wasn't for the Dis and FT, I wouldn't know about it, and I fly to WDW in 10 days. I'm betting that most people on my flight won't know about it either. I guess we shall see what happens when I log in at T24!

We have to remember that we are the advanced researchers, etc, when it comes to travel, and most people are completely uninformed. So lets keep it that way! LOL!!!

For your sake, I hope so. Realistically, though, these changes will affect passengers who used to not particularly worry, grab a boarding pass at the airport and go. Those counters may start printing out mostly C's as folks in the know hedge their bets with paying for EB. I also think there are going to be some mighty unhappy folks who open up their 5 windows at T24 and find for all their "work" the best they could get was, say, B 59 and 60. Most passengers aren't lemmings who will continually happily line up at the C pole and never bother to figure out why. Southwest's unique way of boarding (and evolving rule/policy changes) probably encourage more passengers to do a little investigating on their own. (Unless they really like the middle seat and/or the letter C. )

I'm waiting to hear more (as the weeks go by) about what it's like onboard at seat selection. Those that pay probably will not be willing to trade seats to accommodate those that chose to wing it. (And why should they?) Will the C people have a much harder time now than they did under they old system? Could be interesting.

 

[wdwmaw]

Thanks for all the info everyone as we figure this out. I have been reading the posts during my planning this week and I just have to say....

Boys and girls by the end of today you should be able to go home and tell your parents that

I can... Learn to be "fair"

Fairness is

~play by the rules
~take turns and share
~be open-minded: listen to others
~don't take advantage of others
~don't blame others carelessly

Yes this was an outcome for my class this week

 

[seashoreCM]

because your 8 year old isn't capable of drinking out of a cup, getting a snack out of bag to which she should have access or find the bathroom. My guess is, if she had to, she could manage all of this without you hovering over her.

How about a compromise. Your 8yo or 7yo or 6yo or whoever should at least try to be capable of drinking out of a cup etc. or whatever. You the parent come over to hover only after your child fails for whatever reason.

Did someone already mention that the purpose of early bird check in is not so much to guarantee getting a better boarding pass but rather to save having to get to your computer ready to do your mouse click at T minus 23:59:59 and hope your watch matches Southwest's master clock.

If airlines allowed walkie talkies (like those people use at WDW) to be used on board, would more families feel comfortable about being split up? (Cell phones would not be reliable i.e. over areas without cell towers.)

OT follows:

I just had another example of this, in a related area of interest, with some people taking great offense to the criteria some other people have for calling something "home theater".

http://www.cockam.com/whatis2.htm

 

[bicker]

OT: Yeah, that's the definition I'd use. The definition someone wanted to impose included "bass dumps"(?).

 

[ExPirateShopGirl]

As if people aren't rude enough already... listening to a walkie talkie conversation? Puhleeze!

Other airlines (ironically with seat assignments) offer seat to seat text messaging within the confines of their IFE systems.

If airlines allowed walkie talkies (like those people use at WDW) to be used on board, would more families feel comfortable about being split up? (Cell phones would not be reliable over areas without cell towers.)

 

[cherbear]

I'm hoping this will all be much ado about nothing.

Many people don't even realize that you can check in at T24, and end up getting their BPs printed at the airport within hours of their flight. I think that even less people are going to know about the EB option.

Heck, if it wasn't for the Dis and FT, I wouldn't know about it, and I fly to WDW in 10 days. I'm betting that most people on my flight won't know about it either. I guess we shall see what happens when I log in at T24!

We have to remember that we are the advanced researchers, etc, when it comes to travel, and most people are completely uninformed. So lets keep it that way! LOL!!!

I'm TOTALLY with you on that! Don't anyone give away our secrets...LOL