Southwest Customers of Size

[Princess Patti]

Has anyone had any experience with Southwest's Customer of Size program wherein you are required to buy two seat of you cannot put the arm rests down between the seats. I am traveling with some big "boys" and this is concerning me. I was told that the ticket agent approaches people and suggests that they purchase the extra seat. I was also told that they would refund my ticket if I was unhappy with this policy. They told me that they did not want anyone flying with them that really did not want to.

My concern is that the seat is 17" (the size of a computer keyboard)

Please advise. Thanks.

 

[Lewisc]

Call SW, they'll read you the dimensions of the seat so you can get a better idea. Will they easily fit in a movie theater seat?

If it's close buy the ticket. Unless the flight is 100% full you'll get a refund.

 

[Princess Patti]

I called them and they said the bottom of the seat was 17 wide x 18 deep. Yes they fit into a movie seat but it is full.

I just don't want any embarassment. I was wondering if anyone actually got pulled out of line by a ticket agent who makes this assumption.

I must say they were very insulting when I called them about this topic.

 

[beccasmom]

I saw this happen twice on the A&E reality show “Airline”. It was actually twice in one show. The man it happened to did not seem fazed by it and said that he knew he could fit in the seat because his weight was mostly in the stomach area and he used SWA all the time without issues. He actually had to “prove” it to the customer service rep – they got on the plane before the other passengers and he did indeed fit without any “creeping” into the seat next to him. (He sat near the window if that matters.) It also happened to a young lady, but her weight seemed to be mostly below the waist (not uncommon in females) and she had to buy a second ticket. Neither seemed too embarassed, but in both cases it seemed to be handled pretty sensitively (of course, there was a camera filming them, too).

I have a dear friend who would fall under the “second seat” rule, so when we travel together, we’ve never used SWA. We’ve never discussed SWA’s policies, but I would not take the chance of a possible insensitive handling of this issue by a customer service representative. It is, by its very nature, an issue that needs to be handled with tact and diplomacy. Nothing against SWA, but I would not take for granted that would be a given.

See this link for SWA’s q&a on this topic. http://www.southwest.com/travel_center/cos_qa.html

 

[kaytieeldr]

Has anyone had any experience with Southwest's Customer of Size program wherein you are required to buy two seat of you cannot put the arm rests down between the seats. I am traveling with some big "boys" and this is concerning me. I was told that the ticket agent approaches people and suggests that they purchase the extra seat. I was also told that they would refund my ticket if I was unhappy with this policy. They told me that they did not want anyone flying with them that really did not want to.

My concern is that the seat is 17" (the size of a computer keyboard)

Please advise. Thanks.

I never heard that they'll refund your money if you're not happy with the policy. They WILL send you a refund if you request it if it turns out the flight was not full
These links should answer your questions, without giving you any attitude http://www.southwest.com/travel_center/cos_qa.html
http://www.southwest.com/travel_center/cos_guidelines.html

 

[disneyfreak71]

I am a large guy and fly Southwest. I have ot had any problems(just flew in June) with this issue. Different airplanes have different seats and seatbelts. On one fight, I had a lot of room in the seat belt bt on the way back I needed an extender for the belt and they gave it to me no questions asked or problems. I am able to pt the armrests down but it more comfy to put them up. I believe one attendant asked for it to stay down until after lift off because i was in the aisle seat.

 

[Princess Patti]

Now, I have further begun to wonder, how big is big? Is it a certain weight. I realize that there are some issues with weight and some with shoulder size, but who is to determine. I guess they look at you and kind of profile what they believe to be true. As for traveling next to you family member they told me that was not allowed becuase you are infriging on that person even if they are your child and they have the right to a comfortable ride. Customer Service at Southwest told me that she has travelled with many "big" people next to her and it was torture.

What a shame this is. I have never encountered this on other airlines. Does anyone know the site where people are telling their horror stories. I work with ADA and am very interested in this treatment.

Thanks to all.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Now, I have further begun to wonder, how big is big? Is it a certain weight. I realize that there are some issues with weight and some with shoulder size, but who is to determine. I guess they look at you and kind of profile what they believe to be true. As for traveling next to you family member they told me that was not allowed becuase you are infriging on that person even if they are your child and they have the right to a comfortable ride. Customer Service at Southwest told me that she has travelled with many "big" people next to her and it was torture.

What a shame this is. I have never encountered this on other airlines. Does anyone know the site where people are telling their horror stories. I work with ADA and am very interested in this treatment.

Thanks to all.

Hi, Patti.

If you check the links I provided in my previous response, SouthWest answers these questions and more.
But here, I'll quote some information from the main link which should help. These should answer the questions you ask here, and more, but really the link provides a GREAT deal of information and should answer ALL your current and potential questions.

"Is the policy unique or new to Southwest Airlines?
No, other carriers have similar policies, but to the best of our knowledge, no other carrier offers a refund after travel. We’ve followed this policy for 24 years of our 33 years of operation, but only became more vigilant regarding the additional purchase over the last two years when we began seeing an increase in the number of valid complaints from passengers who traveled without full access to the seat purchased because a large Customer infringed upon the adjacent seating space"
"Why ask large Customers to purchase additional seating?
We could no longer ignore complaints from Customers who traveled without full access to the seat purchased due to encroachment by a large seatmate whose body extended into the neighboring seat. These Customers had uncomfortable (and sometimes painful) travel experiences, and it is our responsibility to seek resolution to prevent this problem. "
"I am a large person and use a seatbelt extension, but I fit in one aircraft seat. Do I have to purchase two seats?
Our policy does not focus on weight, and the seatbelt extension is not the determining factor. We use the ability to lower the armrests as the gauge, as the armrests are truly the definitive boundary between each seat. "
"Are all overweight people subject to the policy?
Many Americans are "overweight" or "clinically obese." A number of overweight or obese people occupy only one seat. In fact, many Customers may use a seatbelt extension but occupy only one seat, and these Customers would not be asked to reserve a second seat. If a Customer cannot lower the armrest (and is unable to comfortably travel with it in the down position), he/she is required to pay for the additional seat occupied. Again, we will offer a refund if the flight does not oversell. "
"I’m large but can be seated with the armrests down. Aren’t your Employees wrong to question me?
If a concern exists, we shouldn’t ignore it even if it’s difficult for both parties to discuss. Condoning an unsafe, cramped seating arrangement onboard our aircraft is far more inappropriate than simply questioning a Customer’s fit in our seats. "
"If a Customer has broad shoulders, will he/she have to buy a second seat?
Again, if a Customer cannot lower the armrests, the additional purchase is necessary. Simply having broad shoulders would not necessarily prevent another Customer from occupying adjoining seat. The upper body can be adjusted, but the portion of the body in the actual seating and armrest area doesn’t have this flexibility."
"Doesn't your policy violate the Americans with Disabilities Act or the Air Carrier Access Act?
Interstate airline travel is specifically excluded from Title II of the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) by Section 12141(2). Airline travel is instead covered by the Air Carrier Access Act, 49 U.S.C. 1374(c) and the regulations implementing the Act issued by the Department of Transportation as 14 CFR Part 382, et seq. The Air Carrier Access Act (ACAA) preceded the ADA, and Congress excluded air carriers and other air transportation services from the scope of ADA. As regulated under 14 CFR §382.38 Seating accommodations (i) "Carriers are not required to furnish more than one seat per ticket or to provide a seat in a class of service other than the one the passenger has purchased." "

 

[NotUrsula]

If you believe it will be an issue, then buy the extra seats. If it turns out that the plane you are on is not full, then you simply have to write for a refund of the extra seat cost, and you will get it.

The GA's are usually quite discreet about letting people know that there may be an issue, but why even set yourself up for worrying about it? The policy, as written, advises "customers of size" that they should buy the extra seat in advance, not wait until they arrive at the airport. Honestly, I've just never understood why this is such a teeth-gnashing issue; a person who really is that big is certainly going to be more comfortable with additional space, so it is a worthwhile investment, especially on a vacation trip. Get the best sale fare you can, and buy it X2.

Here's a secret: when I'm pregnant, I'll buy an extra seat just because it is more comfortable for me not to be crowded. I've known claustrophobic people who do it, too. Why not, if it makes the flight more comfortable? SWA gets their money, and you get a very pleasant flight. (If you buy an extra seat you get a special reservation card to place in the seat next to you so that no one will claim it.)

 

[Princess Patti]

I think it is just a very personal problem that insults people that are involved. I can understand if I was asked to purchase X2, I would be embarassed and horified.

I also think with the economy being as it is people don'thave the extra money to buy the second seat without testing it out first.

 

[karebear1]

Sorry- not sure what ADA is???

 

[kaytieeldr]

NotUrsula makes some excellent points. If a Southwest passenger thinks there's a chance they will be asked to purchase two seats, do that up front. If it turns out the plane isn't full, Southwest WILL refund the second ticket in full. Why subject oneself to potential embarrassment? On the other hand, I know I'm fat. It's not like a Gate Agent is going to surprise me with the news. I DO fit in one seat with the armrests down. Knowing Southwest's policy on Customers of Size, if I choose not to purchase a second ticket, the ONLY person I can blame for any potential awkwardness or embarrassment is ME.
Honestly, if the economy or one's finances are such that purchasing a second airline seat is a hardship, maybe this is the wrong time to be flying anywhere.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Sorry- not sure what ADA is???

Americans with Disabilities Act - and Southwest's policy on Customers of Size addresses this specific issue: "...Congress excluded air carriers and other air transportation services from the scope of ADA. As regulated under 14 CFR §382.38 Seating accommodations (i) "Carriers are not required to furnish more than one seat per ticket or to provide a seat in a class of service other than the one the passenger has purchased."

 

[doubletrouble_vb]

I think it is just a very personal problem that insults people that are involved. I can understand if I was asked to purchase X2, I would be embarassed and horified.

I also think with the economy being as it is people don'thave the extra money to buy the second seat without testing it out first.

The problem is that it is NOT a personal problem when the individuals body begins to impinge on anothers...sometimes substantially.

 

[Princess Patti]

I don't think the impingment is a personal matter but more the way it is handled. We must face it that each and every one of us has some quirk and things that are not exceptable to others. No one is perfect and it is the way it is being handled that bothers me the most. We can judge this issue now and later down the line it could be something else.

 

[heathriel]

My DSIL and DBIL are both Pooh sized, BIL so much so that he cannot fit in seats comfortably (consistently) on any airlines other than America West, and even then, only in their First Class compartment (a $150 upgrade). He's tall AND obese.

The one time he flew on SWA, they purchased one extra seat ahead of time. He found that he most definitely needed it, and the plane was oversold. He also found that passengers kept trying to take the seat from him, and when SWA started offering passengers money to give up their seats, he raised his hand immediately, said he had three seats (his, the empty, and my sister's) and had done with it.

They wouldn't give him the "volunteer incentive" on the extra seat, which made him very angry as he had been required to pay the same price for it, and he wasn't eligible for a refund because his flight was 100% full. And people had kept trying to steal his empty seat (a window - they're the smallest) all during boarding.

He wrote a rather nasty letter in the end, got refunds on all the tickets and got to keep the incentives, as well has having gotten to actually fly the original trip.

My point here is, their policy isn't all it is cracked up to be - open seating + this policy + SWA's tendency to oversell flights is something else to consider.

 

[inkkognito]

Did they give him a "reserved" sign to put on the extra seat? I can understand why he'd be annoyed with people trying to take it. That's also crazy that they wouldn't give him an incentive for being bumped; a seat is a seat and should be compensated as such.
Barb

 

[kaytieeldr]

I don't think the impingment is a personal matter but more the way it is handled. We must face it that each and every one of us has some quirk and things that are not exceptable to others. No one is perfect and it is the way it is being handled that bothers me the most. We can judge this issue now and later down the line it could be something else.

Then the best way to avoid any potential embarrassment is, again, as I think NotUrsula suggests - purchase two seats during the original transaction and avoid ANY awkwardness with the way anything is handled at the airport.

Or, simply don't fly SouthWest. While all airlines DO have similar policies, only SouthWest for the most part enforces theirs.

 

[heathriel]

He didn't tell me if they did or not, but I can imagine even if they did people would have ignored it or not have seen it.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Heather - they travel together, right? Next time, while the plane is boarding, one should sit in the aisle seat and one in the window seat - and place the "Reserved" sign on the (undesirable anyway) middle seat until all passengers have boarded and are seated. As soon as the door is sealed and before the plane starts moving, whoever's in the window seat can move over to the middle... or stay where they are if that ends up being more comfortable for both of them!