Southwest adds charge to board sooner

[crisi]

By the way, I found some of the posts on this discussion were a little sad when it comes to people's attitudes about families and young children. I would have thought common courtesy would prompt people to give up their seat if it meant a child could sit next to a parent.

Many people will. But when the flight is full of families, giving up my seat so you can sit next to your child might mean I'm not sitting close to my child. Or it might mean I'm not sitting next to my husband on our honeymoon trip. Or that I need to move further back in the plane when I booked way up front in order to debark as quickly as possible and make an appointment or connecting flight. Or that I'm not climbing over someone to get to the bathroom six times over the course of an hour because I have to pee all the time. Or I can't nap next to the window. Or instead of sitting between my thin mother and my thin husband, I'm now stuck between two people who overflow their seats. Or that I'm not sitting next to my MIL who is still recovering from her stroke. Or....

I've given up my seat to people with kids. But I'm not OBLIGATED to give up my seat to people with kids - and you have no idea what my circumstances are when I travel. You cannot depend on the kindness of strangers. They may need as much or more kindness than you do. And without prying into their personal business, you can't judge if they are just being stubborn, or if their seatmate is their autistic teenager.

 

[Lewisc]

Most airlines hold back some seats for gate assignment. Any airline will use those seats to accomodate a passenger who needs a window seat for a car seat. SW offers such a passenger "mid boarding". A FA will hold a window seat, if necessary. SW offers family mid boarding if a child is 4 or under. I suspect famlies with a 5 year old child generally take advantage.

The issue seems to be with famlies with older kids 7+. JMO but a child who's old enough to ride a school bus without a parent is old enough to sit in a middle seat a couple of rows from a parent. Parents who don't agree need to pick an airline, and pay whatever optional charge (early boarding/assigned seats) is necessary. No different then couples who want to sit together.

Every couple would like an aisle/window seat with an empty middle seat. Every family of 4 would like two aisle/window rows with empty middle seats. Airlines can't make money if 1/3 of the plane is empty.

We're not willing to pay the kind of fares it takes to provde levels of service airlines used to provide.

 

[bstnsprts]

By the way, I found some of the posts on this discussion were a little sad when it comes to people's attitudes about families and young children. I would have thought common courtesy would prompt people to give up their seat if it meant a child could sit next to a parent.

Common courtesy, how about common sense and responsibility on the parents part to do what is needed to ensure that you can sit together. Let's try that instead of expecting the strangers that you don't want your child sitting with to help with your bad planning. One OP got on the plane with her DD5 to find only two seats left. Great planning. I want to sit with my daughter but we'll be the last two people to board because, of course, we're entitled to sit together. Some sap that did all the right things will just have to move. We need a world revolves around symbol to enter here. How about checking in at 24 hours, not hitting the snooze ten more times and arriving at the airport 30 minutes before your flight. Use another airline where you can choose seats. There are many ways that you the parent can assure that you sit with your child. DW and I have traveled extensively with our DD since she was two. We take responsibility to ensure that we sit together. On our next Disney trip our return flight is with Air Tran, we paid the fee to choose seats. Now we'll do the same with SW for our departure due to this change. Wether it be on a plane, a Disney Bus, or line for an attraction, ect, people need to stop expecting others to solve the problems that they themselves create or don't plan for. Responsibility!!

 

[deedeetoo]

Oh wow I am glad we are flying Delta and already have our seat numbers because I would be so upset if I couldn't be near my 2 and 3 year old.

Sorry but this doesn't guarantee you anything. My one experience with my with this was on Delta. Our first flight was so late that we missed our connection. They put us on standby on the next flight out but there were not three seats together so they put me, dh and our 2 yo dd all in seperate rows. Fortunately there were kind people on the plane who switched with us.

 

[kevschickee]

Sorry but this doesn't guarantee you anything. My one experience with my with this was on Delta. Our first flight was so late that we missed our connection. They put us on standby on the next flight out but there were not three seats together so they put me, dh and our 2 yo dd all in seperate rows. Fortunately there were kind people on the plane who switched with us.

Your flight being late and you missing your connection has nothing to do with seat assignment. If your flight wasn't late you more than likely would have had your seats.

 

[bavaria]

In my example, I'd like to clarify that I tried to pay the 'Fee" for assigned seats and there are virtually no seats together for the return flight. none, nadda, zippo. For those of you that would refuse to move because you paid your 10 dollars..do I offer you double? Shall the seat go to the highest bidder?

I fly UA most often in America. There is E+ available for non-status members, for an extra charge. Many people choose not to pay that charge, and thus get no seat assignment. They then appear at the gate, frantic to get their family seated together, and are again offered E+ at a fee. They turn it down.

At the very end they are offered seat assignments - usually not together at that point. They had a choice - pay for seats together with extra leg room, or take a chance. Flights are flying with higher than ever load factors, so taking a chance doesn't often work out.



I may sound extra sensitive to this issue, but frankly I have witnessed some of you in person on my flights. I won't ask this woman to come forward and identify herself, but there is a member of this website (she had a identifying tag on her bag) who felt the need to shriek and shout and scream at me in the gate area because I declined the GA's request to move seats so that her family could sit together. I had a very visible reason for declining the switch that day, but my physical situation was apparently not as important as this mother's needs. Not only was I in pain, I was humiliated by a stranger who couldn't see past her own needs. I have since learned my lesson and when flying out of MCO I stay in the RCC until the very last possible moment.

That is only one story of many I could tell you about people who have shouted and verbally or physically bullied me over the years. I take every precaution to book flights and seats which work for me, usually at a higher financial cost to my wallet. And still I am treated that way on a regular basis.

Yes, it does make one a little jaded and a little defensive but I think that it is understandable when one is treated so poorly on a regular basis.

Yet I am expected to put all my needs aside and think only of you and your families. Forgive me if some days I don't volunteer my seat; I do on days when I can do so, but I don't deserve that treatment from you when I am simply not able to do so.

 

[DISNEYFOS]

I don't necessarily agree its planning or being wiling to pay a fee. I do both very very well. Air tran holds back seats due to fare class...so all the seats aren't available to choose until 24 hours before the flight #1 #2 I have a window seat requirement for my 2 year old's car seat. #3 I'm absolutely willing to pay for the seats necessary in order for my family to sit together, but their are none on the flight (see item 1).

I was told by the Air Tran rep that just check in 24 hours and try to get seats once they all open up..(umm who is to say they will be open then?) and that she will not let my 2 year old sit alone (which I can only assume means they will be forced to move someone).

That is Air Tran speaking... I'm not expecting you to move..apparently the airline is.... I would love to have my seats and not rely on the courtesy of others..because quite frankly it seems to be lacking these days... Its true you don't know the circumstances of everyone traveling but how about the case where the parent did everything they knew to try to fix it before they had to come up to you and ask you to move from your middle seat so I could sit next to a baby.

 

[deedeetoo]

Your flight being late and you missing your connection has nothing to do with seat assignment. If your flight wasn't late you more than likely would have had your seats.

True... but my point is that Delta doesn't guarantee your seats anymore than any other airline does. In our case the plane was late, but we've also lost seat assignments on Delta because they've changed flight times by a few minutes. And I also wanted to point out that they had no problem separating us from our 2 yo.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

And I think that it is sad that some families don't consider other passengers and their needs, and expect that the fact that they have children overrides other people's situations.


Before expecting or demanding that another passenger move, consider that they too may have needs, and they are fully within their rights to decline to move. That doesn't make them a bad person, it just means that like you, they chose to consider their own needs before your needs.

And no matter what people pay, a child and parent together SHOULD BE MOVED if they are being distrespectfull to others around them. I don't care what seats they paid for. Why should I have to listen to a LOUD, whining child next to a tired parent who doesn't feel like disciplining their child for the whole flight!! So, pay for the seat or not, I think peope should be MOVED when they are disrespectfull. Back of the plane is just fine.

 

[DISNEYFOS]

I take every precaution to book flights and seats which work for me, usually at a higher financial cost to my wallet. And still I am treated that way on a regular basis.

Yes, it does make one a little jaded and a little defensive but I think that it is understandable when one is treated so poorly on a regular basis.

Yet I am expected to put all my needs aside and think only of you and your families. Forgive me if some days I don't volunteer my seat; I do on days when I can do so, but I don't deserve that treatment from you when I am simply not able to do so.

I'm sorry for the way that you were treated. I would never imagine yelling at someone to change their seat. Although I'm curious about the special seats? are you referring to business class? bulkhead seats? Exit row? I do believe those are special seats and shouldn't be required to be reliquished.

I do think the tiny squished coach seats are not all that special.. Middle is usually the least attractive and that is what I would be asking someone to move out of (due the window seat requirement). I just don't understand why someone wouldn't consider it because they feel like they selected it first and apparently paid 6 bucks for it before I could get a chance too.

 

[crashbb]

Now that parent is a moron and you are a better person then I am to get off the plane and not fight it with that woman.

Well, I knew that there was a flight soon to my destination (that had seats on it). At that point, my not sitting down (or getting off) was holding up an entire plane load of people. Yes, it was the woman's fault that I wasn't sitting down, but I was now "the problem". Plus, if the flight crew managed to make take her child as a lap child, I was frankly worried that she'd make my flight a nightmare.

 

[ExPirateShopGirl]

Nicely put.

I think there needs to be attitude change in parents, as well. We often fly standby which means we end up with whichever seats are left open on the aircraft. Rarely are they together. Gate agents who are familiar with me and my kids are kind enough to leave a pair open for us on occasion but that's the exception. What typically happens is there will be 2 seats (non-adjacent) open in First class and one or two in coach. When the kids were younger I would put them in first class where the FA could keep an eye on them and I would take a seat in coach. If there was a pair of seats together in coach I would put the kids there and take the single seat for myself. Never in dozens and dozens of flights did my children suffer from the seapration. In fact, they probably enjoyed it

My point is... let's teach our kids how to adapt to a given situation rather than expect the world to conform to our whims.

Common courtesy, how about common sense and responsibility on the parents part to do what is needed to ensure that you can sit together. Let's try that instead of expecting the strangers that you don't want your child sitting with to help with your bad planning. One OP got on the plane with her DD5 to find only two seats left. Great planning. I want to sit with my daughter but we'll be the last two people to board because, of course, we're entitled to sit together. Some sap that did all the right things will just have to move. We need a world revolves around symbol to enter here. How about checking in at 24 hours, not hitting the snooze ten more times and arriving at the airport 30 minutes before your flight. Use another airline where you can choose seats. There are many ways that you the parent can assure that you sit with your child. DW and I have traveled extensively with our DD since she was two. We take responsibility to ensure that we sit together. On our next Disney trip our return flight is with Air Tran, we paid the fee to choose seats. Now we'll do the same with SW for our departure due to this change. Wether it be on a plane, a Disney Bus, or line for an attraction, ect, people need to stop expecting others to solve the problems that they themselves create or don't plan for. Responsibility!!

 

[Hannathy]

Nicely put.

I think there needs to be attitude change in parents, as well. We often fly standby which means we end up with whichever seats are left open on the aircraft. Rarely are they together. Gate agents who are familiar with me and my kids are kind enough to leave a pair open for us on occasion but that's the exception. What typically happens is there will be 2 seats (non-adjacent) open in First class and one or two in coach. When the kids were younger I would put them in first class where the FA could keep an eye on them and I would take a seat in coach. If there was a pair of seats together in coach I would put the kids there and take the single seat for myself. Never in dozens and dozens of flights did my children suffer from the seapration. In fact, they probably enjoyed it

My point is... let's teach our kids how to adapt to a given situation rather than expect the world to conform to our whims.

I agree 100%

And wow your kids sound just like mine. The last flight to Disney they chose to sit in separate rows because they all wanted windows. We have been apart many times on many flights and we all got to the same place at the same time.

 

[DISNEYFOS]

When the kids were younger I would put them in first class where the FA could keep an eye on them and I would take a seat in coach. If there was a pair of seats together in coach I would put the kids there and take the single seat for myself. Never in dozens and dozens of flights did my children suffer from the seapration. In fact, they probably enjoyed it

My point is... let's teach our kids how to adapt to a given situation rather than expect the world to conform to our whims.

Oh my.. Seriously? the FA should be expected to take care of my 2 year old on the flight. I think thats kinda worse that asking someone to move their seat.. no offense. Maybe if she's sleeping? Which of course is something we always hope for.....

 

[ryanshana]

Most airlines hold back some seats for gate assignment. Any airline will use those seats to accomodate a passenger who needs a window seat for a car seat. SW offers such a passenger "mid boarding". A FA will hold a window seat, if necessary. SW offers family mid boarding if a child is 4 or under. I suspect famlies with a 5 year old child generally take advantage.

The issue seems to be with famlies with older kids 7+. JMO but a child who's old enough to ride a school bus without a parent is old enough to sit in a middle seat a couple of rows from a parent. Parents who don't agree need to pick an airline, and pay whatever optional charge (early boarding/assigned seats) is necessary. No different then couples who want to sit together.

Every couple would like an aisle/window seat with an empty middle seat. Every family of 4 would like two aisle/window rows with empty middle seats. Airlines can't make money if 1/3 of the plane is empty.

We're not willing to pay the kind of fares it takes to provde levels of service airlines used to provide.

Sorry...not to hyjack this thread...but you can only put a car seat in the window seat? I didn't know that.

 

[Lewisc]

Oh my.. Seriously? the FA should be expected to take care of my 2 year old on the flight. I think thats kinda worse that asking someone to move their seat.. no offense. Maybe if she's sleeping? Which of course is something we always hope for.....

The poster implied she was flying non-revenue (standby). Those passengers are generally not allowed to ask, even indirectly, another passenger to move.

I thought a minor was considered unaccompanied if the child wasn't in the same cabin (first class/coach) as at least one parent.

I didn't interpret the poster as expecting the FA to entertain a 2 year old but rather provide the same level of attention that would normally be given to an unaccompanied minor. The FA passenger ratio is more favorable in first class then coach. Makes sense if the OP couldn't get a seat anywhere close to her kids to put her kids in first class. edited to add the OP didn't say her child was 2 years old at the time she put her child in first class.

Again passengers will move for a 2 year old child. The issue is with older children and parents who don't think they should have to pay whatever charge an airline has to facilitate getting seats together.

 

[crashbb]

Sorry...not to hyjack this thread...but you can only put a car seat in the window seat? I didn't know that.

A car seat in a seat other than a window seat, would impede the exit of anyone between the window and the car seat. The exception is two children in car seats and one parent (assuming the plane is 3x3). In these cases, the car seats go in the window and middle seats (with the larger one in the window seat) and the parent sits in the aisle seat.

 

[luvmy3jewels]

Common courtesy, how about common sense and responsibility on the parents part to do what is needed to ensure that you can sit together. Let's try that instead of expecting the strangers that you don't want your child sitting with to help with your bad planning. One OP got on the plane with her DD5 to find only two seats left. Great planning. I want to sit with my daughter but we'll be the last two people to board because, of course, we're entitled to sit together. Some sap that did all the right things will just have to move. We need a world revolves around symbol to enter here. How about checking in at 24 hours, not hitting the snooze ten more times and arriving at the airport 30 minutes before your flight. Use another airline where you can choose seats. There are many ways that you the parent can assure that you sit with your child. DW and I have traveled extensively with our DD since she was two. We take responsibility to ensure that we sit together. On our next Disney trip our return flight is with Air Tran, we paid the fee to choose seats. Now we'll do the same with SW for our departure due to this change. Wether it be on a plane, a Disney Bus, or line for an attraction, ect, people need to stop expecting others to solve the problems that they themselves create or don't plan for. Responsibility!!

SW did not have this policy in place at the time that I bought my tickets. I have flown with them many times in the past, have always checked in 24 hours early to ensure A seating, and have never asked anyone to give up their seat to accomodate my family. My post was mainly about the fact that I did not like them changing their policy 2 weeks before we fly. I assure you that this policy will certainly be taken in consideration when planning my future vacations.

Now if my comment concerning common courtesy touched a nerve, well then I'm sorry. I just know that I was raised to be considerate of others. I also hold the door open for people coming up behind me and give up my seat on the subway/bus for elderly people or pregnant women...but that's probably an entirely different thread in itself!

 

[ryanshana]

SW did not have this policy in place at the time that I bought my tickets. I have flown with them many times in the past, have always checked in 24 hours early to ensure A seating, and have never asked anyone to give up their seat to accomodate my family. My post was mainly about the fact that I did not like them changing their policy 2 weeks before we fly. I assure you that this policy will certainly be taken in consideration when planning my future vacations.

Now if my comment concerning common courtesy touched a nerve, well then I'm sorry. I just know that I was raised to be considerate of others. I also hold the door open for people coming up behind me and give up my seat on the subway/bus for elderly people or pregnant women...but that's probably an entirely different thread in itself!

I agree....If I would have known this I would have gone w/ Airtran that had $6 seat selection......which was the difference between the cost of my tickets. This should have been implemented on tickets purchased after a specific dates...not tickets already purchased!

 

[Lewisc]

SW did not have this policy in place at the time that I bought my tickets. I have flown with them many times in the past, have always checked in 24 hours early to ensure A seating, and have never asked anyone to give up their seat to accomodate my family. My post was mainly about the fact that I did not like them changing their policy 2 weeks before we fly. I assure you that this policy will certainly be taken in consideration when planning my future vacations.

Now if my comment concerning common courtesy touched a nerve, well then I'm sorry. I just know that I was raised to be considerate of others. I also hold the door open for people coming up behind me and give up my seat on the subway/bus for elderly people or pregnant women...but that's probably an entirely different thread in itself!

You have a valid point. It's a shame SW wasn't willing to wait to implement the new policy as of the date the schedule was extended.

Families with young kids are still eligible for family "mid-boarding". That should ensure seats together.

Many of the posters who object to changing seats would do it for a 2 (even a 5 year old). The complaint is with parents who expect people to move to middle seats to accomodate an older child. Particularly when some of those posters insist they shouldn't have to pay for assigned seats/early boarding even though they want to sit together.

A child who's old enough to ride a school bus without a parent on the bus is old enough to sit in a middle seat a few rows from a parent.