Some FP+ Info

[mesaboy2]

So when is all of this supposed to go in place? We are going to WDW the end of August and I AP vouchers that I will need to change into some type of ticket. Will the booking system be tied to your resort reservation or in my case my AP(which really doesn't exisit yet)?

No one here knows the timetable or execution details.

 

[Missyrose]

No one here knows the timetable or execution details.

Wouldn't it be great if we could have a big, blinking sign at the top of the Theme Parks board that read "We don't know when FP+ will roll out"

It would save a lot of time.

 

[golf4miami]

I have a feeling this is going to put a damper on my trip in September. I was really hoping they would wait until we were back home. I think if they try to implement this in August during their peak season time it's going to really cause some aches and pains in the system.

 

[ManyMinnie]

Anyone else think that those two things are completely in conflict with one another? If everyone's wait times are reduced and they are spending less time in lines...walkways will be more crowded.

I initially had hoped that FP+ would be "up & running" for our April
trip, but not anymore. I'll be glad to let others be the guinea pigs.

Exactly. This inital roll out phase has PR disaster written all over it. Disney can't even manage to get their website and mobile app to work correctly, let alone everything FP+ would entail in the parks.

We are 45 days out today and I sure hope the roll out phase happens after we are gone. My apologies to anyone that will be there in the weeks and months after us.

 

[Missyrose]

I have a feeling this is going to put a damper on my trip in September. I was really hoping they would wait until we were back home. I think if they try to implement this in August during their peak season time it's going to really cause some aches and pains in the system.

I think there's little to no chance that Disney waits until summer to implement the system. It's coming and it's coming sooner than we think, given the amount of CM training that has gone on in recent weeks.

 

[mesaboy2]

Wouldn't it be great if we could have a big, blinking sign at the top of the Theme Parks board that read "We don't know when FP+ will roll out"

It would save a lot of time.

This question and "what LTM will be going on my week" are I think by far the most-asked questions here these days.

I think I'll just copy "We just don't know yet" to my clipboard for the year. It answers both.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

Now that dinner is done and I'm sitting here in Garden Grill wishing I had bigger pants on, I thought I'd share what a CM told me while waiting at the turnstile this morning.
He said they had just watched a PowerPoint about the new system. He said - if he remembers correctly, guests will be able to get 4 advance FPs per day, including AP holders (once the system is fully implemented). They will not be limited to a certain number per year (except the limit of 4 per day times 365 days).
He said that guests will still be able to get FPs in the park (not the paper type you get now, you'll swipe your card/wrist band and be assigned a return window).
We chatted for quite a while - I was the first person at the park besides the princess bkfst families - but that's what I specifically remember.

I had a discussion with one of the RFID CM's when I went at the end of January/early Feb and I was told the same, exact thing.

 

[disneydee6]

Again, speculation because I don't know when FP+ will be in full swing, but my sister and I were planning our may trip itinerary last night and we were like, all this planning will be completely different if FP+ is in effect when we go! Just interesting to think that planning will be so different once this is the new norm for disney.

 

[ballarinamom]

Just to encourage further panic (a specialty of mine), I'll run some good ol' FP+ numbers.

The amount of guests per day at MK each day averages out to about 48,000 guests (obviously that number increases during busier times of the year and decreases during slower times). To ease this math, let's assume all 48,000 guests arrive at rope drop and leave at park close and that each guest gets four FP+s for the day.

That would be 48,000 x 4 which would 192,000 needed FP+ slots. Now, let's assume that MK is open from 9am to 9pm (so 12 hours), so now we take the 192,000 and divide it by twelve to get 16,000, so 16,000 FP+ slots are needed per hour.

With the current FP system, there are twelve possible windows each hour 00, :05, :10, :15, :20, :25, :30, :35, :40, :45, :50, :55; occasionally, there will be more but on a day when MK has 45,000 guests, you won't see that happen). Anyways, the 16,000 needed slots in a given hour would then be divided by the 12 possible slots leading to 1,334 (rounding up from 1,333.333) FP+s needing to be distributed of a given slot, park-wide.

Now, here's where the math gets very messy and even more assumptions are made (not like we already haven't made enough). It's obvious, due to demand and capacity differences, Disney won't distribute the same number of FP+s at each attraction (we're going to take parade/firework viewing out of this to simplify things so assume no one chooses the FP+ fireworks/parade viewing options). However, if they were to do that they'd distribute 89 (rounding up from 88.9333) FP+s for one particular slot, because 1,334 divided by 15 (the amount of FP+ attractions at MK during tests) would be 88.9333 and thus would be rounded up to 89.

Taking it further, let's say Disney wanted to increase the amount of FP+s available during a given slot up to 100 (so increasing the amount distributed by 11) for Peter Pan, Space, and Thunder, they'd then have to take away 11 FP+s from less-popular attractions bringing the amount of those available down to 78 per slot. Here's the catch, though: Disney has to take those FP+s away from attractions in the same category or tier, so they can't just take them away from Pirates or PhilharMagic, they need to take those away from Buzz Lightyear's Space Ranger Spin, Enchanted Tales with Belle, Town Square Theater: Meet the Disney Princesses, and Splash Mountain (the last one could be optional as they only need to decrease three). Something similar could be done in the second tier.

Interesting, but a lot of math.

The one, and in my opinion, most important variable you are not calcualting is how many folks do no planning ahead of time. There are so many folks who dont even know what a FP is and will not bother with it. These are the folks who are in line complaining about how few rides they were able to ride because of crowds. You are assuming all WDW guests are like us- planners. How often have we been in a park and see those folks go through the turnstiles with map in hand who say "OK, what are we going to do first?" There are more of them there there are of us. So for the planners, I see this as a good thing. As long as we can book our 4 FPs prior to going and still be able to get a few FPs in the park, my planning will be easier.

 

[LaurenT]

One thing I think will help us is the newbies who reserve second tier rides during primary hours. That will loosen up the headliners during peak times.

 

[golf4miami]

The one, and in my opinion, most important variable you are not calcualting is how many folks do no planning ahead of time. There are so many folks who dont even know what a FP is and will not bother with it. These are the folks who are in line complaining about how few rides they were able to ride because of crowds. You are assuming all WDW guests are like us- planners. How often have we been in a park and see those folks go through the turnstiles with map in hand who say "OK, what are we going to do first?" There are more of them there there are of us. So for the planners, I see this as a good thing. As long as we can book our 4 FPs prior to going and still be able to get a few FPs in the park, my planning will be easier.

Yes, but I think the general assumption is that once FP+ is implemented then the regular FP will no longer be available to those using FP+. I know there have been people saying that this has changed, but I just don't see how the system could hold up if FP+ people are able to use regular FP too.

 

[andyman8]

The one, and in my opinion, most important variable you are not calcualting is how many folks do no planning ahead of time. There are so many folks who dont even know what a FP is and will not bother with it. These are the folks who are in line complaining about how few rides they were able to ride because of crowds. You are assuming all WDW guests are like us- planners. How often have we been in a park and see those folks go through the turnstiles with map in hand who say "OK, what are we going to do first?" There are more of them there there are of us. So for the planners, I see this as a good thing. As long as we can book our 4 FPs prior to going and still be able to get a few FPs in the park, my planning will be easier.

I'll address the bolded in a moment but focus on the rest of the post first. While I understand what you're saying (and it's very true), if Disney is going to offer FP+ to every park guest (and all indications suggest that will be the case), they need to assume every guest will use it even though only a fraction of these guests will.

The amount of guests who use standard FP vary from day-to-day thus leading us to believe that the same will be true with FP+ so it would be impossible for Disney to predict just how many guests will take advantage of FP+, and it seems like the last thing Disney wants with this system is a shortage of FP+s. In the early stages of this program, they are going to have to assume that every park guest will use all four FP+s even though that will, most likely, not be the case. Hope you see what I'm trying to say.

Now to the bolded. Oddly enough, I just wanted to say that I agree with the last part of your post (bolded). I originally saw FP+ as a good thing (who wouldn't want to guarantee FPs before you got to the park?) but Disney's official T&C on their site do suggest that FP+ and FP will be mutually exclusive or FP will just go away. If that's the case, I'm not in favor of the new system. For now, I'm basing my position on the official T&C.

 

[ballarinamom]

The one, and in my opinion, most important variable you are not calcualting is how many folks do no planning ahead of time. There are so many folks who dont even know what a FP is and will not bother with it. These are the folks who are in line complaining about how few rides they were able to ride because of crowds. You are assuming all WDW guests are like us- planners. How often have we been in a park and see those folks go through the turnstiles with map in hand who say "OK, what are we going to do first?" There are more of them there there are of us. So for the planners, I see this as a good thing. As long as we can book our 4 FPs prior to going and still be able to get a few FPs in the park, my planning will be easier.

I agree they have to plan for worse case scenario. But early on, I think for us planners, we are going to benefit from this because of all of those folks who have no clue this is even in the works. They are going to show up thinking its all old school FP and never made their "appointments". It will help those of us with trips planned over the next 6 months. Those folks are going to be the salvation for Disney while they work out the kinks.

 

[jtowntoflorida]

Now to the bolded. Oddly enough, I just wanted to say that I agree with the last part of your post (bolded). I originally saw FP+ as a good thing (who wouldn't want to guarantee FPs before you got to the park?) but Disney's official T&C on their site do suggest that FP+ and FP will be mutually exclusive or FP will just go away. If that's the case, I'm not in favor of the new system. For now, I'm basing my position on the official T&C.

I do agree that FP as we know it today is going to end eventually. However, based on the patent applications I read, I think that FP+ is going to much more powerful and dynamic than we have anticipated or can even imagine, and it's going to function totally different than the current FP system. I also think that it absolutely is going to allow for same day "ride appointments" to be made inside the park. I really think the new system is going to be helpful for all guests, from the super planners, to those who are on a first trip and know nothing about Disney. The system was designed with all sorts of guests in mind, and allows for creation of a unique guest experience based on guest characteristics, including how the guest has behaved when in the parks in the past. There is a reason they're spending so much on this technology, and it's not just on Magic Bands or a system that works the same as the current FP system except it uses virtual instead of paper tickets.

 

[dadddio]

I wonder how many people will burn a FP+ to pre order a CS meal?

We might. We hit the parks with two small children. As such, CS meals are a pain. This is particularly true for at those restaurants with multiple lines broken out by selection, such as Cosmic Ray's, where I'd rather not wait in three different long lines for the family's lunch.

I wonder how many of the kiosks will be available? The lines could get long around them.

Perhaps. Perhaps not. I suspect that a pretty good chunk of guests have smartphones and can skip the kiosks.

The average attendance at Animal Kingdom during the summer is over 30,000 people per day. That park doesn't even have the capacity for 3 FP+ per person, so 4 would be much more tough to pull off. 120,000 FP+ per day would need to come from somewhere. That would mean a whole lot of people ordering CS meals in advance. MK is the only park that can handle that type of FP demand. And 60,000 or more people a day, 240,000 FP is a big number. To meet that demand, people would have to use FP+ for its a small world and stitch.

I guess that I'm missing your point. People will choose to get a FP for the rides/attactions that they wish to. If you only want to go on three attractions at AK, then no one will force you to get a 4th FP.

With FP+ they have to reserve the four each expected guest whether the people use them or not. So, there can't be a lot left over for walk ups. Virtually none in the other three parks.

Again, I'm missing your point. Any FP slots that aren't prereserved would be able to be reserved 'same-day'. We have no idea how many will be available because we have no idea how many guests are able and willing to ride each ride or what those guests priorities will be. Further, we don't know where they will set the SP/SB ratio.

 

[andyman8]

It's time for some more math! Let's explore the possibility of running standard FP and FP+ at the same time. For now, let's just look at one extremely popular attraction; we'll use Space Mountain. These calculations are based on those found in my previous post.

I don't know the specific numbers, but I've heard estimates of Space Mountain's hourly capacity being somewhere near 2,000 riders. Now, we'll again assume Disney is using twelve slots, so well divide 2,000 by 12 to get 165 (rounded down from 166.666 because you can't go above capacity), so that means that in every slot you can only have a total of 165 potential riders. Now, assuming every FP+ user who has a FP+ within that particular slot returns around the same time, you have 100 people now able to ride the attraction in the FP+ queue and only 65 people able to ride in the standby queue. To decrease FP+ wait times, many more FP+s holders will be let on to the attraction then standbyers.

To further put that into perspective, each hour 1,200 FP+ users will be able to ride while only 800 standby guests will be able to ride. Imagine WDW also distributes 300 standard FPs each hour (so 25 FPs per slot). Now, you have only 25% of hourly riders coming from the standby queue.

So, while Disney could use FP and FP+ together, standby lines would skyrocket. That being said, we don't know if there will be a decrease (or increase?) in guests using the standby queue after FP+ is implemented.

 

[ManyMinnie]

It's time for some more math! Let's explore the possibility of running standard FP and FP+ at the same time. For now, let's just look at one extremely popular attraction; we'll use Space Mountain. These calculations are based on those found in my previous post.

I don't know the specific numbers, but I've heard estimates of Space Mountain's hourly capacity being somewhere near 2,000 riders. Now, we'll again assume Disney is using twelve slots, so well divide 2,000 by 12 to get 165 (rounded down from 166.666 because you can't go above capacity), so that means that in every slot you can only have a total of 165 potential riders. Now, assuming every FP+ user who has a FP+ within that particular slot returns around the same time, you have 100 people now able to ride the attraction and only 65 people able to ride in the standby queue.

To further put that into perspective, each hour 1,200 FP+ users will be able to ride while only 800 standby guests will be able to ride. Imagine WDW also distributes 300 standard FPs each hour (so 25 FPs per slot). Now, you have only 25% of hourly riders coming from the standby queue.

So, while Disney could use FP and FP+ together, standby lines would skyrocket. That being said, we don't know if there will be a decrease (or increase?) in guests using the standby queue after FP+ is implemented.

So my high school Algebra teacher was right when he assured me I'd need this information later in life? *sigh*

 

[dadddio]

This. We have two non-expiring tickets, one with 6 days and one with 10 days. Will they end up converting those two tickets to RFID or will I have to go to a ticket booth every time I'm there and switch them out for the number of days I want to use?

You just go to Guest Services and have your ticket swapped.

I still don't understand the 3 or 4 FP per day for one park only, though. Are they trying to phase out the PH option as well??

I'm missing the connection between being able to preschedule 3 or 4 FPs and phasing out PH. Currently, we can't preschedule any FPs. Why would being able to preschedule some be the death of hopping?

Taking it further, let's say Disney wanted to increase the amount of FP+s available during a given slot up to 100 (so increasing the amount distributed by 11) for Peter Pan, Space, and Thunder, they'd then have to take away 11 FP+s from less-popular attractions bringing the amount of those available down to 78 per slot. Here's the catch, though: Disney has to take those FP+s away from attractions in the same category or tier, so they can't just take them away from Pirates or PhilharMagic, they need to take those away from Buzz Lightyear's Space Ranger Spin, Enchanted Tales with Belle, Town Square Theater: Meet the Disney Princesses, and Splash Mountain (the last one could be optional as they only need to decrease three). Something similar could be done in the second tier.

Why would they need to take away slots from one attraction to increase slots at another?

 

[Elandon]

The addition of FP+ is a fascinating experiment of human behavior. I think I would choose to adjust my strategy as follows: arrange my FP+ attractions at, say, epcot for after 4 or 5 PM. I would then head to magic kingdom at RD and do as much as I could at the beginning of the day. I think this might work because FP+ will encourage people to plan attractions for later in the day so they can sleep in and miss RD, thus, making the first couple of hours even better than they are now.

 

[LOVEMY3KIDDOS]

I have not been following this info until reading this...sort-of resisted and now kicking myself. I am not totally against this. I can see how this could be very good for planners. But, I have a couple of questions that I am sure have been asked...so sorry for that.

1. Is there a list (or a speculated list) for each park of rides/attractions that will be included in this? Or will it be everything right down to the Tiki Room and other less popular things? (Just pulled that out of the top of my head as an example.)

2. Will child swap remain the same?

3. I'm wondering how this will be received by those travelling with wide age ranges? For instance, this fall my family is going with my BIL and SIL and their kids. My kids are bigger and ride everything from Dumbo to TOT. Their kids...not so much. So, I am thinking we will not all be reserving the same FP's each day? Kinda forces us to split up?