Sold today- Cabins at Fort Wilderness resale contract

[achinforsomebacon]

Yeah leaving the bedroom and walking through the secondary sleeping area to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night doesn’t seem fun. I could fully see myself stubbing my toe or tripping over something since the space gets so much smaller with the bed down.

Definitely! We just spent a few nights there and the nightly routine involved making sure everything was out of the path to the bathroom. There's not much room between the chair and Murphy bed to begin with and then throw some pool bags, shoes, kitchen chairs in the mix. It can be quite the obstacle course, especially in the dark.

 

[Patmcpsu]

If the Cabins were intended to become part of LSL, I think they would have built them adjacent to LSL. This would have required:

1. Demolishing existing cabins, converting those sites into camping space.
2. Taking old camping space out of service, running new electrical/water/sewer to them.
3. Installing new cabins in that space.

Maybe Disney was cutting corners and didn't want to pay for all that utility work, but it would have been pretty foolish (even by Chapek/Iger standards) to do that. Maybe the cabins become part of LSL anyway out of sheer desperation/reactiveness.

 

[sethschroeder]

Riviera is pretty much already in that low $100 range

Riviera is just in the stack ranking as a whole. Its below the premiere resorts that dont have restrictions and above the SAP resorts that dont have restrictions.

Where Fort will settle in directly relates to its view of stack ranking within DVC as a whole then discounting further for the restrictions. Reminder that Riviera was supposed to easily be sub $100 when it first launched.

 

[sethschroeder]

it's still taking 5+ years to sell out

Riviera has taken so long because:

1. COVID shutdown WDW as a whole, prior to COVID shutdown Rivera actually was selling more quickly than CCV did after opening over the same time length
2. As DVC sales recovered you then had VGF (fastest selling DVC and flagship resort) get rumored then announced then released (reminder we had resale VGF contracts nearing $200/point if I remember correctly as it was very sought after)
3. You then had POLY fixing its error with 1BR/2BR rooms in a new tower (rumored much further out)
4. Multiple price increases

Riviera still sold well even with going up against it the past 5 years.

 

[DanCali]

Riviera is just in the stack ranking as a whole. Its below the premiere resorts that dont have restrictions and above the SAP resorts that dont have restrictions.

This seems very subjective. When you say Premiere is it by "luxury" / room quality? By "location"? By "points chart"? "Availability"? Amenities? Dining? Pool quality?

I've actually consider Riviera a top tier resort and comparable to VGF in many ways like luxury, proximity to parks, and only places where both 1BR and studios sleep 5 (Poly now in that bucket too with the tower). I believe Disney cash rates also support that and are very close to VGF. I hate the restrictions, but love the resort itself!

For what it's worth, I asked an AI (Grok) to rank DVC resorts specifically by "luxury" and it came out with e following info/ranking:

Based on available information, guest feedback, and key luxury indicators such as architecture, dining options, pool complexes, spas, and overall ambiance, here is a ranking of DVC resorts at Walt Disney World and beyond, from most to least luxurious. This ranking focuses on the DVC properties specifically, not the associated Deluxe resorts, and considers the experience for guests staying in DVC villas.

[and then it ranked the resorts as follows - I'm omitting the extra commentary on each resort]

1) VGF
2) RIV
3) VGC
4) AUL
5) AKV
6) Poly (commentary includes tower)
7) BCV
8) BWV
9) CCV
10) BRV
11) BLT (commentary notes ongoing refurb may affect ranking)
12) SSR
13) OKW
14) VDH (dinged due to fewer amenities)
15) HHI
16) Vero
17) CFW (dinged on limited dining, bus/boat transportation, and less upscale theming)

 

[sethschroeder]

This seems very subjective.

Its pretty well laid out and has been for a long time:

VGF/POLY/BCV
BWV/CCV/BLT
RIV (RIV is here because of restrictions it likely would be the bottom of Tier 1 otherwise)
AKV (highly themed, value rooms, and savanna raise it out of SAP tier)
OKW/SSR/BRV

Regarding HH/VB/AUL/DL/VGC they are in their own space and I wouldn't say they are correlated to WDW as they have different benefits, obstacles, and buyers looking at them.

I could see someone saying AKV/FW are the same category. Which if we do the step down we would see it come in as the lowest priced resale (at least until BRV/OKW '42 expirations drop below it due to length of contract).

 

[VGCgroupie]

If the Cabins were intended to become part of LSL, I think they would have built them adjacent to LSL. This would have required:

1. Demolishing existing cabins, converting those sites into camping space.
2. Taking old camping space out of service, running new electrical/water/sewer to them.
3. Installing new cabins in that space.

Maybe Disney was cutting corners and didn't want to pay for all that utility work, but it would have been pretty foolish (even by Chapek/Iger standards) to do that. Maybe the cabins become part of LSL anyway out of sheer desperation/reactiveness.

They for sure didn't want to pay for utility work. It assumed thats why the layout of the cabins sucks so bad and no W/D, they didnt want to move plumbing. Speculation

 

[VGCgroupie]

This seems very subjective. When you say Premiere is it by "luxury" / room quality? By "location"? By "points chart"? "Availability"? Amenities? Dining? Pool quality?

I've actually consider Riviera a top tier resort and comparable to VGF in many ways like luxury, proximity to parks, and only places where both 1BR and studios sleep 5 (Poly now in that bucket too with the tower). I believe Disney cash rates also support that and are very close to VGF. I hate the restrictions, but love the resort itself!

For what it's worth, I asked an AI (Grok) to rank DVC resorts specifically by "luxury" and it came out with e following info/ranking:

Based on available information, guest feedback, and key luxury indicators such as architecture, dining options, pool complexes, spas, and overall ambiance, here is a ranking of DVC resorts at Walt Disney World and beyond, from most to least luxurious. This ranking focuses on the DVC properties specifically, not the associated Deluxe resorts, and considers the experience for guests staying in DVC villas.

[and then it ranked the resorts as follows - I'm omitting the extra commentary on each resort]

1) VGF
2) RIV
3) VGC
4) AUL
5) AKV
6) Poly (commentary includes tower)
7) BCV
8) BWV
9) CCV
10) BRV
11) BLT (commentary notes ongoing refurb may affect ranking)
12) SSR
13) OKW
14) VDH (dinged due to fewer amenities)
15) HHI
16) Vero
17) CFW (dinged on limited dining, bus/boat transportation, and less upscale theming)

Glad I dont trust AI. This list for me I personally find completely inaccurate.

 

[Mle8308]

It’s really hard to make the financials work with the cabins. It’s so niche with expensive dues. It might be an attractive option for a party of 6 to avoid the point usage of 2BR, until they spend a rainy resort day cooped up together. If not divorce, maybe that prompted an early exit at $135pp on the resale market!

If the plan isn’t doing an annual cabin trip, this contract is hard to justify because the dues make trading out so painful. Example - buying 200pts CFW or Poly and both decide to book BLT next year. Cabins pay an extra $800 dues toward that trip with pretty much zero difference than spending much more money. The more years Cabins trade out the less sense it makes to own. If unsure about committing to CabinFW stays for the next ~50 years, those dues are spooky.

This makes me think either LSL has a very high chance of joining CFW somehow, or DVC knows some other future detail we don’t. At the current sales pace it’ll take the entire 50yr contract to sell out. There’s got to be something else. And whatever it ends up being, will it make this person who bought resale at $135pp happier down the line?

I think it will absolutely be a part of the same association. It's why the dues are so high right now. Once LSL opens, they will drop. Not sure what the Disney Visa deal drops the CFW to per point, but it could be a good deal for the future if you think you would like LSL. Looks like the offer is $8500 off and if you have a Disney Visa, an additional $1500. Minimum of 250 points. Didn't look at the current direct price. I don't really have any interest in staying in a cabin, but LSL looks like it would be enjoyable. We shall see!

 

[Genie+]

I think it will absolutely be a part of the same association. It's why the dues are so high right now. Once LSL opens, they will drop. Not sure what the Disney Visa deal drops the CFW to per point, but it could be a good deal for the future if you think you would like LSL. Looks like the offer is $8500 off and if you have a Disney Visa, an additional $1500. Minimum of 250 points. Didn't look at the current direct price. I don't really have any interest in staying in a cabin, but LSL looks like it would be enjoyable. We shall see!

I’ve read the new direct incentives can get CFW as low as $175pp on 150pts.

Interestingly the full potential is 51 years of annual points being loaded for those who get 2024’s points direct.

Makes that $135pp resale contract look less attractive being it is stripped until 2027 with only 48yrs of points left, can only be used in one single resort in one single room size, and does not come with 5 decades of perks and Membership Magic

I get that someone already Blue Card might not care since they only intend to use it CFW regardless, but why not just go direct and sell off ‘24, ‘25, ‘26 points to bring that cost lower than $135pp resale while keeping them unrestricted and fully qualified?

There isn't enough chatter about this. The cabins incentive history has been (at the 150 point level, before any other discounts/MB):
December to February: $30 per point + $1,000 Limited Time Savings ($225 Base Price) - $188 price per point
February to April: $22 per point ($235 Base Price) - $213 price per point
April to July: $24 per point + $3600 Incentive Value ($235 base price) - $187 price per point
Current offer: $30 per point + $4500 Incentive Value ($235 base price) - $175 price per point

It looks like there's finally a trend of them lowering prices to test for the level where people will start biting. At some point, it may become a cheap way to backdoor yourself into LSL (if you're willing to take that risk).

Correct on price and points. The most shocking part of it selling so quick is it was stripped until Aug 2027!

 

[VAMickeyFan]

The current CFW prices make the two resales seem hardly worth it. For those few of us on the fence on buying cabins direct, this is the price point we’ve been waiting for.

 

[VGCgroupie]

I’ve read the new direct incentives can get CFW as low as $175pp on 150pts.

Interestingly the full potential is 51 years of annual points being loaded for those who get 2024’s points direct.

Makes that $135pp resale contract look less attractive being it is stripped until 2027 with only 48yrs of points left, can only be used in one single resort in one single room size, and does not come with 5 decades of perks and Membership Magic

I get that someone already Blue Card might not care since they only intend to use it CFW regardless, but why not just go direct and sell off ‘24, ‘25, ‘26 points to bring that cost lower than $135pp resale while keeping them unrestricted and fully qualified?

Agree 6000 to have unrestricted points and blue card eligible points is well worth it.

 

[Mouseforward]

I think it will absolutely be a part of the same association. It's why the dues are so high right now. Once LSL opens, they will drop.

DVCRM Derrick D. agrees with this point based on the last podcast. He was a guide and has decades of DVC experience.

I do think it is additive to combine them Just like PIT made Poly better since it "fixed" a fundamental issue of room choice.

My strictly personal opinion is that they need to pitch LSL below CCV and make it the " affordable MK DVC and Hotel" then it will be successful. I am thinking smaller lower point rooms with lots of options for 2-10 guests.

 

[Patmcpsu]

I get that someone already Blue Card might not care since they only intend to use it CFW regardless, but why not just go direct and sell off ‘24, ‘25, ‘26 points to bring that cost lower than $135pp resale while keeping them unrestricted and fully qualified?

Sorry for being a newb, but can you MB multiple years? If so, what is the limit in doing so? Three years worth of points would be $60/pt off, if I understand correctly.

 

[Genie+]

Sorry for being a newb, but can you MB multiple years? If so, what is the limit in doing so? Three years worth of points would be $60/pt off, if I understand correctly.

Oh no… sorry for the confusion. I did make it sound like that.

You can’t sell back more one year. I was being loose about selling off those years up to 2027. By renting them out yourself and applying against direct price, could possibly even come out cheaper than the $135pp resale.

 

[sethschroeder]

Glad I dont trust AI. This list for me I personally find completely inaccurate.

Using a generalized AI tool (especially Grok) on opinion questions will get highly varied answers depending on how its pulling the information together especially if you don't specify requirements (AI is not smart you have to very direct with all the things it needs to take in to account).

Its why when you use AI on opinion subjects its in a tool that locks down where its getting the information and specify which information you actually want pulled. Example there are tools that only look at the document you give it and nothing else.

 

[Patmcpsu]

Makes that $135pp resale contract look less attractive... why not just go direct and sell off ‘24, ‘25, ‘26 points to bring that cost lower than $135pp resale while keeping them unrestricted and fully qualified?

I suspect the resale buyer had been waiting for a resale contract to come along, saw it, and booked it. $135 is the first data-point we have for resale value, but I wouldn't call it an established market value.

If the cabins do *not* get absorbed by LSL, I expect their resale value will become Vero Beach level (or worse, due to resale restrictions). It may be DVC's fist "timeshare horror story" where owners are left holding a bag that they want to unload by any means necessary.

 

[Mouseforward]

and sell off ‘24, ‘25, ‘26 points to bring that cost lower than $135pp resale

This is where I get lost in determining the correct way to assign a per-point value. If the points are rented or MMB'ed, they are still included in the denominator; you also still pay the MF on the points. So, the best offer for 150 points is $191 a point, renting each set/year of points at $20 ( and not paying taxes) nets you less than $800 per year of points rented. So, in the hypothetical 3 years, the lowest per point is about $175 - where are people getting a lower value?

 

[Brian Noble]

It may be DVC's fist "timeshare horror story" where owners are left holding a bag that they want to unload by any means necessary.

I think that's unlikely. Those horror stories typically happen for resorts where the annual fees are not sufficiently below rental rates to justify the commitment of ownership. A rack-rate week here is $4,500 in early March '26. That would require 171 points, and at $12/pt that is dues of ~$2,050, or a more than 50% discount off of rack.

It's a niche product, because the cabin experience is so very different. But it is one that I can imagine someone being interested in. The trick is finding the someone.

 

[drg6654]

List DVCRM , buy Fidelity ( but remember to negotiate away the fee)

I project the Cabin MF will settle around 10 when LSL opens and its merged - but by then RIV will be 10 , and Poly will be 9 if it is sold out. If poly is not sold out, it will have the same magic as VGF and stay the same.

Is it the consensus with everyone that Cabins will merge with Lakeshore Lodge? I want to buy Cabins just for the fact I can bring both my dogs with me instead of paying someone to stay at my house 3 times a year.