So, when is enough, enough-high risk pregnancy?

[tlbwriter]

I'm as pro-choice as can be and I also think the world is overpopulated. There is no contradition at all. I do think people should be free to have as many children as they want, but that doesn't mean I think people like the OP describes are making good decisions.

I agree. One can think people should have the right to make their own decisions, and at the same time wish they would make good decisions.

As for this family in particular, I think if you deliberately enter a situation where you know you'll need help, and then you ask for help, you are giving the people you ask the right to say something about that decision. You can only say "it's my decision and I'll live with the consequences" if you are truly willing and able to deal with the consequences, and won't ask others to deal with them for you.

 

[Pigeon]

Again, just because it is not your choice doe not make it a bad choice. And it is a contradiction to say that you are "pro-choice" but only if its the choice you want to rally for. Can't have it that way.

Nonsense. I think abortion should be safe and legal. That makes me pro-choice. I may or may not think having one is a good choice in any particular case, but I respect that it is the woman's right to make that decision. In this case, one may or may not think it's a good idea for the woman to breed like a rabbit, but it is still her right do do so, as it should be. Pro-choice does not mean that you have to agree with the decisions people have made about reproduction, just that you think that decision should be up to them.

 

[DMRick]

I wasn't under the impression that the request came 'from this family in particular' but from a church group. That's what our helping hands church group does..decides if someone needs help and puts it out there. It's volunteer, no one has to say yes. I'm sure our church doesn't think at the other end, their sending out an email asking if people can help, means they get to talk about the family and their personal decision to have another child (or have the right to say something about that decision). Thank God for the type of church I attend (and my friends who don't attend that church that would be more than willing to give me a hand, no matter if they thought I was wise, or not), that people are more than willing to help even if they may not agree with the decisions I[ve made. They would still be happy to bring my kids to religion classes and to visit with me. They would prob even bring food if not asked.
Those who are truly close to this family may already have more info than the OP, and as I said before, perhaps once on bedrest, that's all that is needed.

As for this family in particular, I think if you deliberately enter a situation where you know you'll need help, and then you ask for help, you are giving the people you ask the right to say something about that decision. You can only say "it's my decision and I'll live with the consequences" if you are truly willing and able to deal with the consequences, and won't ask others to deal with them for you.

 

[DMRick]

Pro-choice does not mean that you have to agree with the decisions people have made about reproduction, just that you think that decision should be up to them.

Exactly. And if you don't agree with them, you don't have to offer to help them, if they are on bed rest. Let them slug it out without help and hope they learned their lesson for the next time . (being facetious here)

 

[tlbwriter]

I wasn't under the impression that the request came 'from this family in particular' but from a church group.

Eh, sorry, I'm not buying that. It seems very unlikely that this happened without the family's knowledge and consent. Even if they didn't personally ask the church group for help, they could have stopped the request at any time.

 

[Handbag Lady]

A. For all you know, my children might end up having 1, 2 or 0 children. Maybe some will be gay and adopt, who knows? Not you thats for sure.

B. My husband and I are both only children, so we can just say it evens out to both of our parents having 3 kids and us having 4...does that make you feel better?

C. We are an ever evolving planet and people, for all you know by the time my grandkids grandkids are alive, they might be living on the moon. Plenty of space in...space, no? Youre not psychic, have no idea what the future holds, and I'm guessing you down own a crystal ball either.

D. You would be salty if my 7th child cured cancer.


E. and finally, I can promise you, their need to be MORE children like my 8 children, that are kind, compassionate, sensitive, intelligent and respectful in this world, not LESS!

And youre saying im legally entitled to have as many children as I want, but then asking if its wise? I dont know, youre legally entitled to "DL: Twice a month for years / Multiple visits since birth / 1989 CM on Main Street / 2000 Disneyland Fairy Tale Wedding" but is it really wise when their are children in other countries that are starving? Peoples whos resources have ALREADY run out? Why dont you go be their champion instead of worrying about people having too many children. I'm just sayin......

A. I don't know. They can also have 12 kids each.

B. No

C. Now you are talking some sense. We do need to get off this rock if people keep having babies. We should invest more money in the space program.

D. I don't know what salty means but your kid can also turn into a murderer. We'll never know in advance, will we? I do know there are so many forms of cancer that the thought of one person curing all of them blows my mind.

E. Glad to hear your kids are good and that you think highly of them. I'd hate to hear they are holy terrors.

As as for your footnote, how do you know I don't help other people in addition to my travels? Perhaps you would rather the US get to the point where we have to start doing population control by law? Would that make you happy? It wouldn't be in your lifetime or that of your great-grandchildren, so who cares, right? Most of the other third world countries have so many problems as a result of overpopulation, so think about that for a second.

No, thank you. I'll continue to worry about people all over the globe who have too many children as a whole. The rain forests are not getting any bigger.



ETA: I'm not trying to pick on you or start a fight. Again, you have every right to have as many children as you want and I don't wish to make it seem as if I am "holier than thou." You did say that you thought everyone was scared to speak up on the number of children she had. I answered because I am not afraid to state my opinion on overpopulation.

 

[rie'smom]

THIS is a beautiful little story and one I hope you share with her.

Thank-you, I have shared it with her and told her it is one of my favorite memories. She is cherished.

Nonsense. I think abortion should be safe and legal. That makes me pro-choice. I may or may not think having one is a good choice in any particular case, but I respect that it is the woman's right to make that decision. In this case, one may or may not think it's a good idea for the woman to breed like a rabbit, but it is still her right do do so, as it should be. Pro-choice does not mean that you have to agree with the decisions people have made about reproduction, just that you think that decision should be up to them.

No you don't because in the very next sentence you insult those women who choose to have large families. When you say "breed like a rabbit" you're insulting not only the woman in the OP but fellow Disers and my MIL. In the quoted post you say they can choose and then you ridicule them for making their choice. That is not respectful.
Choice is about a woman's right to choose abortion or to choose to have a baby. When someone who says they're pro choice starts making comments about other women who choose to have large families, they are no longer pro choice. It would be more accurate to say you are for abortion.

 

[tlbwriter]

Choice is about a woman's right to choose abortion or to choose to have a baby. When someone who says they're pro choice starts making comments about other women who choose to have large families, they are no longer pro choice. It would be more accurate to say you are for abortion.

Or, you know, birth control. Just sayin'.

 

[nathalee81]

Nonsense. I think abortion should be safe and legal. That makes me pro-choice. I may or may not think having one is a good choice in any particular case, but I respect that it is the woman's right to make that decision. In this case, one may or may not think it's a good idea for the woman to breed like a rabbit, but it is still her right do do so, as it should be. Pro-choice does not mean that you have to agree with the decisions people have made about reproduction, just that you think that decision should be up to them.

This is such a good point!

I don't know if it is the decision I would make and I may not think it is the best choice, but it is HER choice.

 

[luvsJack]

Nonsense. I think abortion should be safe and legal. That makes me pro-choice. I may or may not think having one is a good choice in any particular case, but I respect that it is the woman's right to make that decision. In this case, one may or may not think it's a good idea for the woman to breed like a rabbit, but it is still her right do do so, as it should be. Pro-choice does not mean that you have to agree with the decisions people have made about reproduction, just that you think that decision should be up to them.

So do you judge the woman that had an abortion the same way you do the woman that had 5 children at once? or the one's that "breed like rabbits"?

Good or bad a choice is a choice. And just because YOU think its a bad choice, doesn't make it so.

 

[rie'smom]

Or, you know, birth control. Just sayin'.

Again, that is a choice for individual women to make-not for you and not for me to decide for them.

 

[rie'smom]

A. I don't know. They can also have 12 kids each.

B. No

C. Now you are talking some sense. We do need to get off this rock if people keep having babies. We should invest more money in the space program.

D. I don't know what salty means but your kid can also turn into a murderer. We'll never know in advance, will we? I do know there are so many forms of cancer that the thought of one person curing all of them blows my mind.

E. Glad to hear your kids are good and that you think highly of them. I'd hate to hear they are holy terrors.

As as for your footnote, how do you know I don't help other people in addition to my travels? Perhaps you would rather the US get to the point where we have to start doing population control by law? Would that make you happy? It wouldn't be in your lifetime or that of your great-grandchildren, so who cares, right? Most of the other third world countries have so many problems as a result of overpopulation, so think about that for a second.

No, thank you. I'll continue to worry about people all over the globe who have too many children as a whole. The rain forests are not getting any bigger.



ETA: I'm not trying to pick on you or start a fight. Again, you have every right to have as many children as you want and I don't wish to make it seem as if I am "holier than thou." You did say that you thought everyone was scared to speak up on the number of children she had. I answered because I am not afraid to state my opinion on overpopulation.

Do you have kids? If not, then maybe if you're super worried about population growth, don't have any. Then if you and others who feel like you do about population growth choose not to have children, it will balance with those who like large families.
It isn't for you or me or anyone else to choose family size for others.
My first statement was facetious.

 

[luvmy3jewels]

In response to the OP's original question....I have been in the position where my Dr. told me that I was too high risk to have any more children. I had pre-eclampsia during all three pregnancies and my Dr. was concerned that I could have permanent kidney and liver damage after my third child was born. I also had two difficult deliveries with complications that put my life and my babies lives in jeopardy.

Having been in that position, I can sympathize with someone who longs for another child but is told they shouldn't have another. There was a large part of me that wanted to have a fourth child and it was a decision that I struggled with for several years. However after seeing first hand what my pre-term niece went through during her three months in the NICU this past fall, I now know without a doubt, the only "right" decision for our family is for me not to put my body through another pregnancy. I need to be here to take care of the three kids I already have.

So, yes I do think this mother is being irresponsible if she has been told that she is putting her life and her babies' lives in jeopardy if she is continuing to get pregnant and has had multiple high-risk pregnancies. (And I think the Duggars are also irresponsible if they continue trying for number 20, when Michelle and her last baby almost died due to pre-eclampsia).

 

[LuvOrlando]

WOW, this took a turn didn't it? Personally I wanted 6, but my health limited me to 2 so that's what I have. I'm 100% behind whatever anyone wants to do with love in their hearts, 0 - 20, bio, adopted and everything in between. A home filled with love and is all any kid needs

PS- isn't breeders a derogatory term created by the gay movement against hetero couples. I seem to remember issues in Province town a while back where it was being used as a slur against vacationing families and has been gaining in use. Not ok
Here is just one article but I clearly remember it being all over the news a while back and have heard it in other places since then, on TV ect.
http://provincetownjournal.com/life/entry/provincetown-magazine-publisher-in-gay-rage-tantrum/

 

[tlbwriter]

Again, that is a choice for individual women to make-not for you and not for me to decide for them.

I'm not deciding for anybody. I'm just disputing the statement that someone who is pro-choice must, by definition, be in favor of large families if that's what a woman chooses to do. Sorry, but those are completely separate.

 

[Scurvy]

Choice is about a woman's right to choose abortion or to choose to have a baby. When someone who says they're pro choice starts making comments about other women who choose to have large families, they are no longer pro choice. It would be more accurate to say you are for abortion.

What?! That doesn't even make sense. The fact that you don't agree with the choice someone else makes does not mean you don't think they should be able to choose for themselves, it just means you personally don't like the choice they made. As with everything else, people have the right to their own opinions about things, and everyone doesn't have to agree. I think everyone should be able to choose what they are going to eat. I disagree entirely with the proposed bans on fast food restaurants in some areas. However, if someone decided to eat only Big Macs and fries for the rest of their lives I'd think they were making a very foolish choice. That doesn't make me "pro fast food ban", it just means I personally disagree with their choice. I think some people are crazy for voting the way they do, but I certainly think they ought to have the right to vote the way they see fit . . . even if I think they're doing it wrong. I think it would foolish if someone decided to have 20 children, but if they can properly care for them all there's no reason they can't decide to do just that. The fact that I think it's crazy for them to do such a thing doesn't mean I'm "for abortion".

LuvOrlando - Yes, I think that was the origin of the term. I find it quite distasteful, personally.

 

[indimom]

I think one of the hardest things for a woman to hear is that she cannot or should not have children. Even when they already have one or more. There is just something difficult about having the decision taken out of your hands.
But, I do find it hard to understand why someone would continue to risk their life (if that is what this mother is doing) when they already have been blessed multiple times. From the outside looking in, it does appear that they are not considering "logic" but are basing their decision soley on "emotion."

 

[rie'smom]

I'm not deciding for anybody. I'm just disputing the statement that someone who is pro-choice must, by definition, be in favor of large families if that's what a woman chooses to do. Sorry, but those are completely separate.

What?! That doesn't even make sense. The fact that you don't agree with the choice someone else makes does not mean you don't think they should be able to choose for themselves, it just means you personally don't like the choice they made. As with everything else, people have the right to their own opinions about things, and everyone doesn't have to agree. I think everyone should be able to choose what they are going to eat. I disagree entirely with the proposed bans on fast food restaurants in some areas. However, if someone decided to eat only Big Macs and fries for the rest of their lives I'd think they were making a very foolish choice. That doesn't make me "pro fast food ban", it just means I personally disagree with their choice. I think some people are crazy for voting the way they do, but I certainly think they ought to have the right to vote the way they see fit . . . even if I think they're doing it wrong. I think it would foolish if someone decided to have 20 children, but if they can properly care for them all there's no reason they can't decide to do just that. The fact that I think it's crazy for them to do such a thing doesn't mean I'm "for abortion".

LuvOrlando - Yes, I think that was the origin of the term. I find it quite distasteful, personally.

I was not saying you have to agree with their choice to have a large family just that you should respect their right to choose. I don't want a large family and I have never had an abortion but I respect the choices of women who choose either or both options.

 

[tlbwriter]

I was not saying you have to agree with their choice to have a large family just that you should respect their right to choose.

Sure, I respect their right to choose. But I have my own right to believe they have made a bad choice. What's so difficult about that?

 

[luvsJack]

I'm not deciding for anybody. I'm just disputing the statement that someone who is pro-choice must, by definition, be in favor of large families if that's what a woman chooses to do. Sorry, but those are completely separate.

No, no, no. No one said that a person who is pro-choice must be in favor of large families. But if you are pro-CHOICE, you should be of the mind that it is ALL a choice. To abort, to have one child, 2, 3, or a dozen--those are all choices. If you are of the mind that a person has the right to choose fine, but it can't just be about the choice of abortion. Pro-choice means that a woman has the right to choose to have a child or not. This woman was exercising her right to choose.

And anyone is always welcome to disagree with another's choice, but that does not make it a bad choice or a wrong choice; just not one that you agree with.


We do not know how much thought went into this woman's pregnancy. She may have thought long and hard about any danger she was putting her self in (IF she was even in any danger). She may have spent days praying or meditating about the best choice for her and her family. And she and her husband may have discussed what would happen if she died. And after all that she may have decided that the best choice for them was to have another child. If there is a plan in place then she was not necessarily being irresponsible.