So what should happens to cadets in uniform

[SteveH]

These are the kids that get sent on tours and then come back with PTSD, suicidal thoughts and/or become cops that abuse power.

I can not believe that you would say such a vile statement like that. I am beyond disgusted.

 

[gwynne]

That was my point earlier. People with similar personalities were in the first row at Salem screaming-Burn Them. The rule of law is intended to eliminate the impact of this approach to adjudication but if the mob is loud and the respnsible parties weak then it could have an unfortunate impact in this case on justice. The fact that controversial displays haven't been pursued in the past sets a precedent that should have considerable impact on the disciplinary course but who knows if leadership is weak.

I'm confident leadership at the military academies will manage an investigation and any needed consequences with integrity.

 

[brockash]

Not everything in the circle game is about punching. Much of it evolved in to simply making the other person look, especially in places where you typically wouldn't want another guy to look.

I have no idea what their intentions were in this incident, but just wanted to chime in to say that at the high school where I work; many kids play the "circle game," which I've witnessed many many times, but I've never seen any of them punch each other etc.... so yes depending on the environment; I think there are tons of times that it's played only with the intent of making the other person look with no punching involved.

 

[brockash]

Circle game sounds stupid. Using this gesture as a white supremacy symbol is even more stupid. Being disrespectful on a broadcast such as College Gameday is BEYOND stupid.

They have a lot of growing up to do. These are the kids that get sent on tours and then come back with PTSD, suicidal thoughts and/or become cops that abuse power.

Very interesting comment... do you always use such broad, generalized, prejudice statements? How odd...

 

[SaintsManiac]

I can not believe that you would say such a vile statement like that. I am beyond disgusted.

That isn’t my problem.

 

[SaintsManiac]

Very interesting comment... do you always use such broad, generalized, prejudice statements? How odd...

Prejudice? Are you unaware of what our troops face when they come home?

 

[pahoben]

I'm confident leadership at the military academies will manage an investigation and any needed consequences with integrity.

Good to know. Some of the recent events in the military justice system have been puzzling to me so hoped that wouldnt be the case here.

 

[smiths02]

Circle game sounds stupid. Using this gesture as a white supremacy symbol is even more stupid. Being disrespectful on a broadcast such as College Gameday is BEYOND stupid.

They have a lot of growing up to do. These are the kids that get sent on tours and then come back with PTSD, suicidal thoughts and/or become cops that abuse power.

Prejudice? Are you unaware of what our troops face when they come home?

So by your statement, the "stupid" ones come back with PTSD and suicidal thoughts? That shows a lot of compassion for veterans who do suffer from those conditions.
Maybe you should be a psychologist for the military and police since you feel you can determine who will have PTSD.

 

[SaintsManiac]

So by your statement, the "stupid" ones come back with PTSD and suicidal thoughts? That shows a lot of compassion for veterans who do suffer from those conditions.
Maybe you should be a psychologist for the military and police since you feel you can determine who will have PTSD.

Stop it. You are purposely reading what you want from my words.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Stop it. You are purposely reading what you want from my words.

I'm more or less just confused what you actually mean by your comments.

I'm not seeing the connection between these particular students and those who have experienced PTSD and/or suicidal thoughts as a result of the tours or individuals who go on power trips while being police officers.

Can you help me understand more what you mean?

 

[SaintsManiac]

I'm more or less just confused what you actually mean by your comments.

I'm not seeing the connection between these particular students and those who have experienced PTSD and/or suicidal thoughts as a result of the tours or individuals who go on power trips while being police officers.

Can you help me understand more what you mean?

1. I meant ALL CADETS IN GENERAL are vulnerable to psychological issues from tours, not those kids specifically.

2. If these SPECIFIC cadets that are throwing the sign around really mean it as a way of showing their racist pride then they need sensitivity training and discipline before they go on tours that could result in PTSD exacerbating the issue of their racism.


Thanks for asking in a civil way before going off the rails. I happen to be a huge supporter of our troops. I also happen to be against racism and hate and I know that many of our police are former military. Many people feel it could be why they react the way they do in certain situations.

And to everyone else in this thread who attacked me...I suggest you put me on ignore and go about your day.

 

[declansdad]

Yep, sure is.

It's rather sad really, especially that last part.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I read they were being investigated for their actions. I don't really know what should happen. I would guess my opinion would change depending on the demeanor of these cadets when faced with the consequences of their actions (much like that happens all the time in public courts) and the supposed intent behind it. I do feel there should be consequences but I don't know quite yet what I feel should be those consequences should be. Even if one can point to immaturity that def. speaks towards their current career path IMO.

In terms of what is being discussed I did find this comment in the article I was reading one I will try to keep in mind when looking at things: "the use of the symbol itself “is not a reliable signifier" on its own that someone is a white supremacist, Mark Pitcavage, a senior research fellow at the ADL’s Center on Extremism, previously said over social media.
And “no one should assume anything about the use of such a gesture unless there are other unmistakable white supremacist signifiers in that context as well." The ADL is an anti-hate organization. The quoted comment in a general comment by the way.

 

[SaintsManiac]

It's rather sad really, especially that last part.

 

[SaintsManiac]

I read they were being investigated for their actions. I don't really know what should happen. I would guess my opinion would change depending on the demeanor of these cadets when faced with the consequences of their actions (much like that happens all the time in public courts) and the supposed intent behind it. I do feel there should be consequences but I don't know quite yet what I feel should be those consequences should be. Even if one can point to immaturity that def. speaks towards their current career path IMO.

In terms of what is being discussed I did find this comment in the article I was reading one I will try to keep in mind when looking at things: "the use of the symbol itself “is not a reliable signifier" on its own that someone is a white supremacist, Mark Pitcavage, a senior research fellow at the ADL’s Center on Extremism, previously said over social media.
And “no one should assume anything about the use of such a gesture unless there are other unmistakable white supremacist signifiers in that context as well." The ADL is an anti-hate organization. The quoted comment in a general comment by the way.

I don’t want to think these kids are white supremacists. I want to believe they were just being immature. I think the first step is more training. I don’t necessarily think they should be thrown out, but what is too harsh? What is just right? I don’t know.

It’s a tough situation.

 

[declansdad]

You can shake you head all you want but it is sad that you think veterans return home to become police officers that abuse their powers. That's on you not me.

 

[Praying Colonel]

I'm confident leadership at the military academies will manage an investigation and any needed consequences with integrity.

Cadets have due process rights, and depending on the proposed action have representation through Legal Assistance and/or Trial Defense Service.

https://www.westpoint.edu/about/west-point-staff/staff-judge-advocate/legal-assistance
https://www.westpoint.edu/about/west-point-staff/staff-judge-advocate/trial-defense-service

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

1. I meant ALL CADETS IN GENERAL are vulnerable to psychological issues from tours, not those kids specifically.

2. If these SPECIFIC cadets that are throwing the sign around really mean it as a way of showing their racist pride then they need sensitivity training and discipline before they go on tours that could result in PTSD exacerbating the issue of their racism.


Thanks for asking in a civil way before going off the rails. I happen to be a huge supporter of our troops. I also happen to be against racism and hate and I know that many of our police are former military. Many people feel it could be why they react the way they do in certain situations.

And to everyone else in this thread who attacked me...I suggest you put me on ignore and go about your day.

I appreciate your response and the way you presented it. It did help me understand more of what you meant.

I don’t want to think these kids are white supremacists. I want to believe they were just being immature. I think the first step is more training. I don’t necessarily think they should be thrown out, but what is too harsh? What is just right? I don’t know.

It’s a tough situation.

I don't either want to believe they are either; I don't actually know them or their character (like were there any other things in their past they did that lends ore to understanding if they were a certain way?), I just know they did this one act.

It's def. a tough situation completely agree.

 

[Deb & Bill]

Not a darned thing. They were playing the circle game.

 

[AlohaNow]

Cadets have due process rights, and depending on the proposed action have representation through Legal Assistance and/or Trial Defense Service.

True, but that is if it comes to UCMJ articles. And if so, military members being charged by the military tend to not utilize military representation. If being charged by a civilian jurisdiction (say a DUI), then one might use the military legal assistance afforded to them. But if the army charges you with something, it wouldn't be very wise to use an army lawyer as your counsel.

Cadets are taking final exams right now and will leave post for break. They'll come back in January and the 'investigation' will commence in earnest, quietly. The first (and most likely last) stop will be an Honor Board at the academy. Anyone involved will be recommended for 'sensitivity training' and perhaps some punishment tours; the 'walking the area' that I referred to earlier. The final outcome will of course be reported out to media, but it will be way after the hubbub over this has subsided. And the West Point Public Affairs Office will most likely release the information late in the day on a Friday, when no one is watching the news, in their hope that everyone will forget about it by Monday morning. That is their way that I have seen over and over.

It will be very interesting to see what happens. This is just my best guess at what will transpire.