So what should happens to cadets in uniform

[NYCgrrl]

These are some of the punishments meted out for inappropriate behavior by West Point cadets and members of the armed forces that was viewed by the public:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...ommie-cadet-us-army-socialist-views-red-flagsIn summary, this cadet disparaged officials and officers as well as expressed political leanings; all definite no nos.

https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2016/05/west-point-cadets-photograph/482250/These cadets were required to take the equivalent of sensitivity classes but allowed to graduated.

https://www.latimes.com/local/la-xpm-2012-apr-26-la-me-marine-discharged-20120426-story.htmlThis marine disparaged the Commander in Chief via Facebook and received a less than honorable discharge.

These are the rules associated with joining the service. If you feel neither you or your children can abide by them it might be wise to find a different career path.

 

[Dan Murphy]

off-topic threads on Disboards

Off topic?

 

[Jennasis]

It was inappropriate regardless. Circle game in uniform...inappropriate. Racism...always unacceptable. These guys are not worthy of wearing the uniform and serving. They clearly don't respect either.

 

[Planogirl]

I think what speaks most to me is how the guy next to the last cadet who made the sign kind of sunk down with a serious look. He was laughing until all of that started but it might have occurred to him that this was trouble.

 

[Christine]

It was inappropriate regardless. Circle game in uniform...inappropriate. Racism...always unacceptable. These guys are not worthy of wearing the uniform and serving. They clearly don't respect either.

I totally agree with you here. Whatever they were doing, racist or not, on TV in uniform is out of character (I thought) for a cadet from a military academy. These academies are tough to get into, require congressional backing/recommendations, require excellent grades and behavior, and you represent your country at all times. Sounds to me that at least West Point is slipping if a cadet believes that even minimal goofball/clown behavior on TV while in uniform is acceptable. This appears to be more than that, so I agree with the investigation, but jeez, future leaders, huh?

 

[NYCgrrl]

I totally agree with you here. Whatever they were doing, racist or not, on TV in uniform is out of character (I thought) for a cadet from a military academy. These academies are tough to get into, require congressional backing/recommendations, require excellent grades and behavior, and you represent your country at all times. Sounds to me that at least West Point is slipping if a cadet believes that even minimal goofball/clown behavior on TV while in uniform is acceptable. This appears to be more than that, so I agree with the investigation, but jeez, future leaders, huh?

We live near by West Point and visit about once every year or so (love the grounds during the autumn foliage season) and I've never seen or imagined a lot of the goofing off I saw in the video. Yes, they are human but somehow I thought the high jinks were confined to stealing other academies' mascots, LOL

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/06/us/army-navy-mascot.html.

Probably too many 1940's vision of military school via Hollywood for me.

 

[Colleen27]

I think the video pretty well speaks for itself, and I hope the investigation leads to actual consequences for these young men. There was no "circle game" - it would be impossible to play in that context and there wasn't any playful shoving/hitting when the one cadet looked down and saw the sign. It was clearly a nod and a wink to the more controversial meaning of the gesture. Maybe it wasn't actually intended to be racist, but at best it was the same "not racist" as making racist jokes and claiming it is just harmless fun. Maybe they just wanted to "go viral" or "troll" the people who take these gestures "too seriously" (both justifications we've all heard from other people who do these kinds of things). Or maybe they're racist. Whichever is the case, none of the possible motivations speak well to the character of men being trained as future leaders of our armed services.

 

[robinb]

I totally agree with you here. Whatever they were doing, racist or not, on TV in uniform is out of character (I thought) for a cadet from a military academy. These academies are tough to get into, require congressional backing/recommendations, require excellent grades and behavior, and you represent your country at all times. Sounds to me that at least West Point is slipping if a cadet believes that even minimal goofball/clown behavior on TV while in uniform is acceptable. This appears to be more than that, so I agree with the investigation, but jeez, future leaders, huh?

One of the young men was a midshipman. He was the one on the far right whose hand was pushed down by the gloved hand of the cadet next to him. So, Annapolis also has problems.

 

[wvjules]

Gee, I wonder where they got the idea that behavior like this is acceptable?

 

[dominiondad]

Two things - there is really no dispute that the hand sign demonstrated was at one time part of an innocent game, the Circle Game, which has been around for decades and even made part of a pouplar show. Also, there is wide reporting that some now view the sign as racist. Unless you have more information than what is currently publically available, you don't know the intent behind what was on tv over the weekend.

That said, I'm growing tired of people declaring certain signs and symbols "racist" and then demanding others not use it. In a few cases it makes sense such as nazi symbols which are recognized worldwide as a symbol of hate and represented a group responsible for over 6 million murders. But just because some idiots show a symbol at a rally, we can't ban it from existance. After all, white supremists wear jeans - do you where jeans? Racist. White supremists drive Fords - do you drive a Ford? Racist. White supremists wave American flags - do you have one on your house? Racist.

If these kids were trying to show hate, by all means remove them. But haven't we learned time after time after time (Duke Lacross, Covington field trip, hands up-don't shoot) that the story we hear in the media is missing relevant facts? Let's all take a deep breath and let the proper folks determined what happened. Please don't attack me saying I support one view over another, I'm simply saying that the reaction should be fact-based and we should leave the pitchforks and torches to Disney characters.

 

[L&Lfan]

Gee, I wonder where they got the idea that behavior like this is acceptable?

Why don’t you enlighten us?

 

[pahoben]

Two things - there is really no dispute that the hand sign demonstrated was at one time part of an innocent game, the Circle Game, which has been around for decades and even made part of a pouplar show. Also, there is wide reporting that some now view the sign as racist. Unless you have more information than what is currently publically available, you don't know the intent behind what was on tv over the weekend.

That said, I'm growing tired of people declaring certain signs and symbols "racist" and then demanding others not use it. In a few cases it makes sense such as nazi symbols which are recognized worldwide as a symbol of hate and represented a group responsible for over 6 million murders. But just because some idiots show a symbol at a rally, we can't ban it from existance. After all, white supremists wear jeans - do you where jeans? Racist. White supremists drive Fords - do you drive a Ford? Racist. White supremists wave American flags - do you have one on your house? Racist.

If these kids were trying to show hate, by all means remove them. But haven't we learned time after time after time (Duke Lacross, Covington field trip, hands up-don't shoot) that the story we hear in the media is missing relevant facts? Let's all take a deep breath and let the proper folks determined what happened. Please don't attack me saying I support one view over another, I'm simply saying that the reaction should be fact-based and we should leave the pitchforks and torches to Disney characters.

I don’t think it is wise to mention pitchforks and torches to some of these folks. It becomes a never ending witch hunt and the logic is best characterized in the Monty Python witch burning skit-if you want to burn witches then you will find witches.

 

[b2k1121]

That said, I'm growing tired of people declaring certain signs and symbols "racist" and then demanding others not use it. In a few cases it makes sense such as nazi symbols which are recognized worldwide as a symbol of hate and represented a group responsible for over 6 million murders. But just because some idiots show a symbol at a rally, we can't ban it from existance. After all, white supremists wear jeans - do you where jeans? Racist. White supremists drive Fords - do you drive a Ford? Racist. White supremists wave American flags - do you have one on your house? Racist.

This is such a bad argument and it's funny that it always gets used in this situation. As if there is no difference between wearing jeans/driving a car and purposefully choosing to pose for a camera while making a gesture. The difference shouldn't have to be explained, but here we are.

Don't act like you are some unbiased observer in this situation when you are clearly trying to downplay the existence of this symbol within white supremacy by saying 'just because some idiots show a symbol at a rally'. It has been widely adopted by white supremacists when posing for pictures, it wasn't a one time rally thing.

The knots people will twist themselves in to defend this sort of thing is hilarious, like if these people are found to be racist you'll be personally affected in some way.

 

[pahoben]

Good thing no Disboards during the time of the trials in Salem Mass. Hard to imagine how large the pyre would have been with Disboards posters adding their observations. There would have been terrible deforestation to have enough wood to get the job done.

 

[clutter]

That said, I'm growing tired of people declaring certain signs and symbols "racist" and then demanding others not use it.

Actually, I'm growing tired of hate groups co-opting ordinary, innocent items and symbols to normalize their agenda.

 

[Jennasis]

Two things - there is really no dispute that the hand sign demonstrated was at one time part of an innocent game, the Circle Game, which has been around for decades and even made part of a pouplar show. Also, there is wide reporting that some now view the sign as racist. Unless you have more information than what is currently publically available, you don't know the intent behind what was on tv over the weekend.

That said, I'm growing tired of people declaring certain signs and symbols "racist" and then demanding others not use it. In a few cases it makes sense such as nazi symbols which are recognized worldwide as a symbol of hate and represented a group responsible for over 6 million murders. But just because some idiots show a symbol at a rally, we can't ban it from existance. After all, white supremists wear jeans - do you where jeans? Racist. White supremists drive Fords - do you drive a Ford? Racist. White supremists wave American flags - do you have one on your house? Racist.

If these kids were trying to show hate, by all means remove them. But haven't we learned time after time after time (Duke Lacross, Covington field trip, hands up-don't shoot) that the story we hear in the media is missing relevant facts? Let's all take a deep breath and let the proper folks determined what happened. Please don't attack me saying I support one view over another, I'm simply saying that the reaction should be fact-based and we should leave the pitchforks and torches to Disney characters.

The nazi's did not invent the swastika. They took it from other cultures and adopted it for their own use. This is how it starts.

 

[Searc]

Two things - there is really no dispute that the hand sign demonstrated was at one time part of an innocent game, the Circle Game, which has been around for decades and even made part of a pouplar show. Also, there is wide reporting that some now view the sign as racist. Unless you have more information than what is currently publically available, you don't know the intent behind what was on tv over the weekend.

That said, I'm growing tired of people declaring certain signs and symbols "racist" and then demanding others not use it. In a few cases it makes sense such as nazi symbols which are recognized worldwide as a symbol of hate and represented a group responsible for over 6 million murders. But just because some idiots show a symbol at a rally, we can't ban it from existance. After all, white supremists wear jeans - do you where jeans? Racist. White supremists drive Fords - do you drive a Ford? Racist. White supremists wave American flags - do you have one on your house? Racist.

If these kids were trying to show hate, by all means remove them. But haven't we learned time after time after time (Duke Lacross, Covington field trip, hands up-don't shoot) that the story we hear in the media is missing relevant facts? Let's all take a deep breath and let the proper folks determined what happened. Please don't attack me saying I support one view over another, I'm simply saying that the reaction should be fact-based and we should leave the pitchforks and torches to Disney characters.

I'm tired of the same people twisting themselves into knots and saying "gee golly whiz, that's not what they meant" to defend this racist behavior. That's why people continue to do it.

 

[b2k1121]

I don’t think it is wise to mention pitchforks and torches to some of these folks. It becomes a never ending witch hunt and the logic is best characterized in the Monty Python witch burning skit-if you want to burn witches then you will find witches.

Or, don't go on TV and announce that you're a witch...

 

[dominiondad]

This is such a bad argument and it's funny that it always gets used in this situation. As if there is no difference between wearing jeans/driving a car and purposefully choosing to pose for a camera while making a gesture. The difference shouldn't have to be explained, but here we are.

Don't act like you are some unbiased observer in this situation when you are clearly trying to downplay the existence of this symbol within white supremacy by saying 'just because some idiots show a symbol at a rally'. It has been widely adopted by white supremacists when posing for pictures, it wasn't a one time rally thing.

The knots people will twist themselves in to defend this sort of thing is hilarious, like if these people are found to be racist you'll be personally affected in some way.

One thing going for you - you are consistent. You seem to be able to understand people's biases and intents without even meeting them. I agree it wasn't a one time rally thing, but I also know it was a game for decades prior.

If these people are found to be racist, as you say, I hope they are punished. Right now they are only "assumed" to be racist by some people and I stand firm that people should be judged by facts instead of an interpretation of what we see in a 3 second video clip. Also, I'm not "acting" like an unbiased observer, I am one. I have no dog in this fight other than trying to encourage people not to overreact to a situation where the facts are fully known yet. Finally, if these people are determined to be racist, I will be affected in a personal way. I will be tremendously disapointed that they were given an opportunity to attend a military academy when the slot should have gone to somebody with stronger values. I will be sad that people in our society still judge people based on skin color, religion, hertitage, gender, or any other reason that doesn't define who a person really is. I will will have sympathy for the people who were the target of the racist symbols. I don't know any of the parties involved, never attended a military academy, and didn't see the video live. There are no winners here. But again, let's be patient and wait for facts.

 

[pahoben]

Or, don't go on TV and announce that you're a witch...

Oh no-it takes an oh so virtuous and knowledgable person to determine if someone is a witch. It’s difficult for others to determine what is in the heart of a man they saw for a few seconds on television but not for the oh so virtuous that can readily see the evil that lurks there.