So now they messed up our plans for next April.

[New Mouse]

I don't know that I would characterize DVC as "no different" from other "sleazy" timeshares, but there are certainly some terms and conditions in the contract (e.g., banking, borrowing, home resort, etc.) that could be perceived as the "fine print."

Care to explain? They market all the perks without telling you any of the what ifs.

 

[Sandisw]

Welcome to the world of sleazy timeshare sales. Unfortunately Disney is no different than the rest...theres just more public demand for the product.

The banking and borrowing is spelled out in your agreement, as is the ability to limit point use to home resort only, change booking windows, and many other things where if they were put in place, next to no one would buy.

Unfortunately the sales team generally does not bring this stuff up, they will just show you the magical graphic where you can combine 3 years of vacation points into 1 big vacation...intentionally leaving out all the details.

It is what it is. Im more concetned about the lack of inventory going forward as the extension of point expiration is not something the system was designed to withstand, nor is it legal imo.

Home resort rules and regulations do allow them to amend banking and borrowing, so giving a late banking exception is legal. Matter of fact, DVC has always made one time exceptions for owners in crisis. This move is simply more widespread,

In terms of the extension of banked points for 6 months...that one is a little tricky. I can find nothing in the FL Timeshaee or real property laws for condo associations that prohibit it. Believe me, I have searched,

However, what we don’t know is if that extension is really for the owners actual points, or if they are developer points being used, Since they can only be used for 6 months, there is no home resort priority. If they don’t show up online and an owner has to call to book with them, then the developer my be taking points normally used as OTU points that are in their inventory and giving owners access to them,

If this is the case, again, nothing illegal about it because those points exist in the system.

This whole crisis has definitely, IMO, forced owners to better understand what they bought and the risks and limitations to it.

 

[S22]

I am in a similar situation. I was planning to borrow points for a trip in April 2021. Now I will have to cancel my trip in January 2021 (which was booked to make up for my April 2020 trip that was cancelled) to bank those points so I will have enough, without borrowing >50% For the April 2021 trip. Thank goodness for spreadsheets! Hopefully this restriction won’t last too long. I have an Aulauni trip on the horizon in the next two years that I will need to borrow all of my points for. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Sandisw]

All of this craziness is hard on everybody and no one could have predicted a prolonged shut down of this nature. It is interesting for us because we are looking to buy in the next year and we are nm learning is and outs of the system we wouldn't otherwise learn.

I am genuinely curious what everyone thinks would be a good solution to this problem. Even if DVC allowed the April and June UY points to expire there is still going to be a glut of points on the market and availability will be tighter than normal for the next year or two. What should DVC do to mitigate the problem?

I think what they have done is the best case scenario in light of it all, I know people feel that TWDC should have come in and saved the day with offering rooms for free from the Disney Collecfion,

But, they didn’t waive their liability to cover losses or issues with the program just for fun. They made sure that DVD and DVCM had to figure out things without them,

As owners, we may not like it, but everything they did, given about 20% loss of inventory in 2020..assuming a June 1st opening...was within their legal power,

The fact that no changes to use of the Disney Collection were announced, leads me to believe that a change to that program wasn’t going to be agreed to,

Remember, DVD owns a share of points that they can hold back from booking inventory to free it up for members, No reason for WDPR to come to the rescue when DVD owns so many developer points that can go unused.

 

[Deb & Bill]

You still have options. You could always rent the needed points for 2020 and you can always rent out 2021 points to still get what you want.

Its not seamless but it’s an option. The alternative is much more painful.

That might be easier said than done.

 

[buzzrelly]

That might be easier said than done.

And is, quite honestly, the last thing I would do after all this whole pandemic debacle with renting points. I’ll just have to get a cash reservation.

 

[Yinn]

That might be easier said than done.

It’s not easy nor preferred, but it’s an option.

In this policy what are the options?

1) Rent the points you now can’t borrow.
2) Defer your vacation to the following year, bank the points you’ll need.
3) Book a non-preferred vacation (shorter vacation, cheaper resort, season, or room)

None of those are ideal, but their options where the owner isn’t directly losing anything. You still get DVC. It’s an inconvenience.

In the old policy, it left owners April UY with no options, and June UY with one - transfer it to RCI where you can’t use it at DVC or any Orlando resorts. At best, it was not an equivalent product, at worst it was a direct loss of points.

Besides, if they allowed full borrowing, we would just see another thread about how they screwed us by allowing the points but have no availability to use them.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

It seems like they should only be restricting borrowing for April and June use years. They will effectively have more points next year. Now, as DVC has set it up, everyone suffers except people with April and June use years.

 

[Eric Smith]

It’s not easy nor preferred, but it’s an option.

In this policy what are the options?

1) Rent the points you now can’t borrow.
2) Defer your vacation to the following year, bank the points you’ll need.
3) Book a non-preferred vacation (shorter vacation, cheaper resort, season, or room)

None of those are ideal, but their options where the owner isn’t directly losing anything. You still get DVC. It’s an inconvenience.

In the old policy, it left owners April UY with no options, and June UY with one - transfer it to RCI where you can’t use it at DVC or any Orlando resorts. At best, it was not an equivalent product, at worst it was a direct loss of points.

Besides, if they allowed full borrowing, we would just see another thread about how they screwed us by allowing the points but have no availability to use them.

There’s a fourth option of paying cash for the part of the vacation that they can no longer borrow for.

 

[Sandisw]

It seems like they should only be restricting borrowing for April and June use years. They will effectively have more points next year. Now, as DVC has set it up, everyone suffers except people with April and June use years.

April and June UY are still limited to the borrowing rule so they share in that loss for future trips,

Yes, they got an extra 6 months for banked points, if they had them. Not all that were traveling did, However, what did April really get? 4 months max to find rooms and go. Sounds like it will take some time to see the points which means, it could be a week or two before they can even try. Not all will even be able to use them,

June UY has a little more time, but they won’t even have them to book until June, so they have to wait a month, unless they have other points to use now which can be replaced later,

So, the big benefit that April and June got was the late banking. But, given that all UYs got borrowed points returned, it think it falls in line with that.

Does it make it tough for everyone? Sure does. But, they had to decide how to handle both short and long term and everything they did seems to be a pretty good balance,

 

[aymekae]

We had just decided to go to Aulani, our home resort we've only been to once, next February by borrowing points from Aug 2021 points since I already rented out 2020 points to help pay for my non-Disney Alaska cruise this year that has been canceled. Now that plan has been nixed, too.

 

[LAX]

We had just decided to go to Aulani, our home resort we've only been to once, next February by borrowing points from Aug 2021 points since I already rented out 2020 points to help pay for my non-Disney Alaska cruise this year that has been canceled. Now that plan has been nixed, too.

Is February a difficult month at AUL? If not, you can try buying one-time points at 7 months unless those have been suspended as well.

LAX

 

[mgarbowski]

Even if DVC did nothing to accommodate the people with April and June UYs they would face a squeeze -- and possibly have had to limit borrowing -- because people are banking more points into the future instead of using them in 2019. I just banked 137 points yesterday that I originally planned to use this August because I did not want to risk losing them. That's 137 extra points reserved for 2021. Multiply that by ?X and the DVC system is going to have too many points chasing too few rooms for the near future.

I think this is a reasonably fair solution. As disclosure, I'm taking a loss due to the shut down, and DVC's accommodation does nothing to minimize it. I'm also not hurt by the borrowing restriction. But my loss is partly due to risks I took before this all happened, and not that big.

 

[keishashadow]

I think what they have done is the best case scenario in light of it all, I know people feel that TWDC should have come in and saved the day with offering rooms for free from the Disney Collecfion,

But, they didn’t waive their liability to cover losses or issues with the program just for fun. They made sure that DVD and DVCM had to figure out things without them,

As owners, we may not like it, but everything they did, given about 20% loss of inventory in 2020..assuming a June 1st opening...was within their legal power,

The fact that no changes to use of the Disney Collection were announced, leads me to believe that a change to that program wasn’t going to be agreed to,

Remember, DVD owns a share of points that they can hold back from booking inventory to free it up for members, No reason for WDPR to come to the rescue when DVD owns so many developer points that can go unused.

Trying not to think about fact this could just keep snowballing past April & June UY owners, ugh

I never considered this particular option. As one who normally does bank points vs borrow, I’m in process of convincing myself this is a good thing but thinking too hard upon it. Difficult to hold a mad about a TS problem, while watching the nightly news if truth be told.

Main issue for us relates to our September 2021 trip @ BWV next year For the first time, I was planning on a longer stay. Was counting on banking my remaining 2019 UY points, using all the 2020’s and borrowing 2021’s. Will just have to figure out a different path...split trip at another of our DVC home resorts, something thru CRO or just more days at Universal. Plenty of time to hash that out. More concerned about the three remaining trips planned for this year.

 

[drjackal31]

We are in a similar situation. Luckily I did some math and we should be able to make it work with the 50% borrowing if I can convince everyone to share studios and we can get three studios. We own at SSR so hopefully that won't be a problem at 11 months, fingers crossed. But if it doesn't work out I'm going to try to be hopeful. I understand everything that is happening right now sucks for a lot of people.

 

[Grumpy by Birth]

I don't know that I would characterize DVC as "no different" from other "sleazy" timeshares, but there are certainly some terms and conditions in the contract (e.g., banking, borrowing, home resort, etc.) that could be perceived as the "fine print."

Care to explain? They market all the perks without telling you any of the what ifs.

I sat through a timeshare presentation back in the late 80s or early 90s and vowed "never again." In my experience, DVC didn't use those kind of sleazy pressure sales tactics.

Our experience with a DVC rep was no pressure. They provided us with information to take home and encouraged us to take our time in deciding (we did end up purchasing a mere TEN YEARS later).

I felt like there was ample opportunity to research and read the contract thoroughly (I would hope everyone at least reads the contract they are signing for tens of thousands of dollars) to learn about all of those little details that aren't highlighted in the marketing materials. That's why referred to those details as the "fine print."

I suppose if people are impulse buying without reading what they are signing and consider it sleazy that the sales rep didn't highlight every caveat (annual maintenance fee increases, perks not guaranteed, etc.) then YMMV.

I certainly don't think those details should be hidden from anyone. But unless the salesperson is pressuring you to sign without reading the terms & conditions, IMHO, I just don't find that to sink to the level of "sleazy."

 

[mgarbowski]

I sat through a timeshare presentation back in the late 80s or early 90s and vowed "never again." In my experience, DVC didn't use those kind of sleazy pressure sales tactics.

Our experience with a DVC rep was no pressure. They provided us with information to take home and encouraged us to take our time in deciding (we did end up purchasing a mere TEN YEARS later).

I felt like there was ample opportunity to research and read the contract thoroughly (I would hope everyone at least reads the contract they are signing for tens of thousands of dollars) to learn about all of those little details that aren't highlighted in the marketing materials. That's why referred to those details as the "fine print."

I suppose if people are impulse buying without reading what they are signing and consider it sleazy that the sales rep didn't highlight every caveat (annual maintenance fee increases, perks not guaranteed, etc.) then YMMV.

I certainly don't think those details should be hidden from anyone. But unless the salesperson is pressuring you to sign without reading the terms & conditions, IMHO, I just don't find that to sink to the level of "sleazy."

Also, DVC didn't set up a property, start selling, and then once it was fully subscribed immediately start taking advantage of hidden terms to skimp on amenities, raise fees, or any other things that allow a management company to squeeze money out of a timeshare.
Instead, they set up a timeshare with maximum flexibility for property usage by owners, had the foresight to plan for situations where that flexibility might need to be curtailed, and then used the powers reserved for management to deal with a global pandemic in a good faith effort to manage the situation for the maximum benefit of ownership. Those basterds!

 

[dsnymnkyuncle]

I predict it will be in place for reservations through calendar year 2021.

Hopefully, I am wrong and it ends sooner!

This is interesting. Given the different time frames for the points being saved and the day Disney re-opens this might not be as bad as it seems. And it really doesn't seem to harsh. A couple of weeks ago I was worried about all the points chasing to few dates especially on 'high volume' days. So I borrowed into the MLK weekend earlier than normal for 4 nights.

The borrowing change doesn't really impact me now, but given the big benefit to others who had taken a blow I would be fine with it in either case.

 

[The Jackal]

There’s a fourth option of paying cash for the part of the vacation that they can no longer borrow for.

No one saw this pandemic coming, while it is still deadly, the numbers are lower than predicted. I think DVC did the most fair option that they could have.

There are also more options. Stay for less days ( I know this option is awful, but it is an option), go to a resort that uses less points (150 points goes a lot further at OKW and SSR, OKW was just refurbed and SSR is in the middle of one and new rooms are spectacular), hopefully things will return to the way they were sooner than later.

 

[rocketriter]

If you look to first causes, DVC didn't mess up your plans. COVID-19 messed up your plans and it messed up DVC's ability to find equitable solutions for a constantly changing and dangerous situation. I say this with sympathy for your dilemma and the sincere hope that your and my vacation plans are the worst that this disease does to our families.