So my daughter just had her first plane ride to Disney

[ttintagel]

"Viewing a child as chattel" is the EXACT OPPOSITE of believing that a child is capable of being trained to behave properly in public.The latter gives the child credit for intelligence, agency, and goodwill.

 

[ZoeBell]

Why is this thread full of assumptions that a screaming inconsolable child is a undisciplined child? Even the best of the best parents may on occasion have a child that is having a meltdown. Doesn't mean that child is a brat and undisciplined and it doesn't mean the parents have given up and let the child rule the world.

 

[CPT Tripss]

Why is this thread full of assumptions that a screaming inconsolable child is a undisciplined child? Even the best of the best parents may on occasion have a child that is having a meltdown. Doesn't mean that child is a brat and undisciplined and it doesn't mean the parents have given up and let the child rule the world.

I don't see all those assumptions. I see several people noting that the decision to put a child with a history of crying constantly while traveling on an airplane without her mother (apparently the only person able to consolle the child) is a poor decision.

 

[Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina]

More assumptions, nice,

I hope that people who view their children as chattel would refrain from having more children.

Apparently, with this poster, assumptions are permitted in only one direction ... from his perspective.

For the pp's who wondered where in this thread people indicated they viewed their children as "chattel", you won't find it.

Same with manhattanman's comment of how he "question's the value of breaking a kid the way you break a horse to get them to heel". Another remark that was thrown out without any basis. I enjoy a healthy debate now and again, but gosh its frustrating when posters toss out accusations that are not accurately based on the thoughts and opinions expressed by others.

For the OP who still has to get her 3 year old home from Disney via plane, I truly hope her journey goes better and that she lets us know if there was any improvement from the first experience.

My son will be 17 in less than a month. We have been there, done that with typical three year old behaviours (and all the ones that came before and after). He's been corrected, disciplined, and LOVED in the process. You can most definitely accomplish all three simultaneously.

 

[North of Mouse]

Agree, agree, agree. With all of the above.

Thank you! I have read all the posts on this thread and *no one* has viewed their child as *chattel*.

Think someone was just trying to *Every* child can be taught acceptable and unacceptable behaviors at a young age (even most with limited ability - but definitely not trying to judge there, just know some can, not all).

Don't understand why just being children excuses obnoxious behavior - one thing we know from someone close, is that it takes work to be *consistent*, and they are not willing for it. You start early, and they learn very easily, and as you say they are *yearning to learn*.

 

[goofy4tink]

I just returned from a week away, in WDW. I spend a fair amount of time on a plane. Here's the thing. I managed to bang into the seat in front of me a few times. The person in front of me didn't turn around and glare, or make comments to me. A child will bang on the seat back a few times....it's to be expected. BUT...if it continues, and the parent does nothing about it, then sure, the person being banged into is justified in saying something. And I'm not talking about a few kicks, but kicking that goes on for an extended period of time. Kids are kids. And a three y/o isn't going to 'get it'. It's up to mom (or dad) to prevent further seat kicking.
If the kicking continues past 3 or 4 bangs, then the parent isn't doing their job.

For those that don't want to be banged from behind, and want to be sure it isn't going to happen? Choose the furthest back row of seats, or choose a seat directly in front of the first exit row. Otherwise? Take your chances.

I've had worse experiences with adults behind me...jamming stuff into the seatback pockets, or slamming the tray shut. Or grabbing the back of my seat, as if it were saving their life, when getting up.

This thread has really gone down an interesting road. Sad to see so many people jumping on parents when the kids behind them bang the seat a few times.

 

[Greysword]

My recommendation to the OP (and others that may have travel mates that might interfere with the seat in front of them) is to seek out a space with room. While kids can not sit in the Exit row, they can sit in a bulkhead seat (a seat with a wall or partition in from of them). While this is usually the first row on WN, it is worth a shot.

To be honest if I knew my DD was going to kick the front seat (for any number of reasons), I would get EBCI, then ask those in the bulkhead row if we could sit there and explain (briefly) the situation. If they decide not to give up their seats, I would likely sit in the row behind them, instead. I would then apologize in advance for any possible seat kicking and be specific about letting them know I will try hard to minimize the impact on their travel.

Not to be obnoxious, but if there is a good reason for sitting in the bulkhead row (other than simple comfort), then when I explain it and the people choose not to surrender their seats (for comfort sake), then they might as well be the ones to get the kicking instead of someone who didn't even have that option early in the boarding process. Otherwise, any other seat on a WN flight will have someone in front of the kicking child.

If a solution exists (like a bulkhead seat in this instance) and all attempts by the parent are made to secure the least disruptive seat (by asking the gate agent to board early, getting EBCI, asking people in the BH seat to trade, warning the FA and people around me of the child's possible behavior) and to control the child during flight, then I feel the parent has done due diligence to minimize the impact to other passengers and the crew.

Once due diligence has been made, then I feel it is up to those around the family to assist the parents if the child has an "attack" that causes disruption (it takes a village, after all). This could be from helping to distract the child during the flight to helping in disciplining the child during flight (a stern glance from an intimidating stranger many times has a chilling effect on a child and causes them to back down ). That said, if a parent does not permit those around them to assist when they are unable to calm the child, then they are once again culpable to the child's continued actions.

Disclaimer: When I say "good reason" for kicking, I don't mean poor parenting. Sometimes kids are forced to fly when they don't want to, since that is what the parent choose (for one reason or another). If the child has a medical condition like ADD, gets seizures, a mental disorder (like anxiety), claustrophobia, or whatever that would elicit this behavior, then it really isn't the child's fault and not the parent's either.

These are my thoughts, which I may or may not have explained with enough detail for a full understanding of the overall concepts. If you disagree, then let me know on what parts you disagree. If you do not fully understand, then please ask questions instead of outright disagreeing .

 

[Danibelle]

My recommendation to the OP (and others that may have travel mates that might interfere with the seat in front of them) is to seek out a space with room. While kids can not sit in the Exit row, they can sit in a bulkhead seat (a seat with a wall or partition in from of them). While this is usually the first row on WN, it is worth a shot.

To be honest if I knew my DD was going to kick the front seat (for any number of reasons), I would get EBCI, then ask those in the bulkhead row if we could sit there and explain (briefly) the situation. If they decide not to give up their seats, I would likely sit in the row behind them, instead. I would then apologize in advance for any possible seat kicking and be specific about letting them know I will try hard to minimize the impact on their travel.

Not to be obnoxious, but if there is a good reason for sitting in the bulkhead row (other than simple comfort), then when I explain it and the people choose not to surrender their seats (for comfort sake), then they might as well be the ones to get the kicking instead of someone who didn't even have that option early in the boarding process. Otherwise, any other seat on a WN flight will have someone in front of the kicking child.

If a solution exists (like a bulkhead seat in this instance) and all attempts by the parent are made to secure the least disruptive seat (by asking the gate agent to board early, getting EBCI, asking people in the BH seat to trade, warning the FA and people around me of the child's possible behavior) and to control the child during flight, then I feel the parent has done due diligence to minimize the impact to other passengers and the crew.

Once due diligence has been made, then I feel it is up to those around the family to assist the parents if the child has an "attack" that causes disruption (it takes a village, after all). This could be from helping to distract the child during the flight to helping in disciplining the child during flight (a stern glance from an intimidating stranger many times has a chilling effect on a child and causes them to back down ). That said, if a parent does not permit those around them to assist when they are unable to calm the child, then they are once again culpable to the child's continued actions.

Disclaimer: When I say "good reason" for kicking, I don't mean poor parenting. Sometimes kids are forced to fly when they don't want to, since that is what the parent choose (for one reason or another). If the child has a medical condition like ADD, gets seizures, a mental disorder (like anxiety), claustrophobia, or whatever that would elicit this behavior, then it really isn't the child's fault and not the parent's either.

These are my thoughts, which I may or may not have explained with enough detail for a full understanding of the overall concepts. If you disagree, then let me know on what parts you disagree. If you do not fully understand, then please ask questions instead of outright disagreeing .

Wow just wow!
I would never ask any passengers to change seats with me for that reason! And especially the bulkhead passengers who might have their own good reason for taking those seats.

Yes, I have flown numerous times (including overseas) with babies and toddlers.

 

[DVC Daisy]

My recommendation to the OP (and others that may have travel mates that might interfere with the seat in front of them) is to seek out a space with room. While kids can not sit in the Exit row, they can sit in a bulkhead seat (a seat with a wall or partition in from of them). While this is usually the first row on WN, it is worth a shot.

To be honest if I knew my DD was going to kick the front seat (for any number of reasons), I would get EBCI, then ask those in the bulkhead row if we could sit there and explain (briefly) the situation. If they decide not to give up their seats, I would likely sit in the row behind them, instead. I would then apologize in advance for any possible seat kicking and be specific about letting them know I will try hard to minimize the impact on their travel.

Not to be obnoxious, but if there is a good reason for sitting in the bulkhead row (other than simple comfort), then when I explain it and the people choose not to surrender their seats (for comfort sake), then they might as well be the ones to get the kicking instead of someone who didn't even have that option early in the boarding process. Otherwise, any other seat on a WN flight will have someone in front of the kicking child.

If a solution exists (like a bulkhead seat in this instance) and all attempts by the parent are made to secure the least disruptive seat (by asking the gate agent to board early, getting EBCI, asking people in the BH seat to trade, warning the FA and people around me of the child's possible behavior) and to control the child during flight, then I feel the parent has done due diligence to minimize the impact to other passengers and the crew.

Once due diligence has been made, then I feel it is up to those around the family to assist the parents if the child has an "attack" that causes disruption (it takes a village, after all). This could be from helping to distract the child during the flight to helping in disciplining the child during flight (a stern glance from an intimidating stranger many times has a chilling effect on a child and causes them to back down ). That said, if a parent does not permit those around them to assist when they are unable to calm the child, then they are once again culpable to the child's continued actions.

Disclaimer: When I say "good reason" for kicking, I don't mean poor parenting. Sometimes kids are forced to fly when they don't want to, since that is what the parent choose (for one reason or another). If the child has a medical condition like ADD, gets seizures, a mental disorder (like anxiety), claustrophobia, or whatever that would elicit this behavior, then it really isn't the child's fault and not the parent's either.

These are my thoughts, which I may or may not have explained with enough detail for a full understanding of the overall concepts. If you disagree, then let me know on what parts you disagree. If you do not fully understand, then please ask questions instead of outright disagreeing .

Well I completely disagree!

Um, my DH is 6' 7". You would have him trade or punish him by putting your kicking child behind him???? At his height the exit rows or bulkhead seats are where he fits or his knees would be banging into the passenger in front of him. I would probably take that trade & make sure he sat behind YOU if you even approached us with that! YOU, not your kicking child

Most likely those people in the bulkhead seats paid for early boarding, or have a darned good reason as to why they are sitting there. I would never fly Southwest without early boarding for exactly the reason to get seats where my DH will not disrupt other passengers because of his size.

 

[North of Mouse]

My recommendation to the OP (and others that may have travel mates that might interfere with the seat in front of them) is to seek out a space with room. While kids can not sit in the Exit row, they can sit in a bulkhead seat (a seat with a wall or partition in from of them). While this is usually the first row on WN, it is worth a shot.

To be honest if I knew my DD was going to kick the front seat (for any number of reasons), I would get EBCI, then ask those in the bulkhead row if we could sit there and explain (briefly) the situation. If they decide not to give up their seats, I would likely sit in the row behind them, instead. I would then apologize in advance for any possible seat kicking and be specific about letting them know I will try hard to minimize the impact on their travel.

Not to be obnoxious, but if there is a good reason for sitting in the bulkhead row (other than simple comfort), then when I explain it and the people choose not to surrender their seats (for comfort sake), then they might as well be the ones to get the kicking instead of someone who didn't even have that option early in the boarding process. Otherwise, any other seat on a WN flight will have someone in front of the kicking child.

If a solution exists (like a bulkhead seat in this instance) and all attempts by the parent are made to secure the least disruptive seat (by asking the gate agent to board early, getting EBCI, asking people in the BH seat to trade, warning the FA and people around me of the child's possible behavior) and to control the child during flight, then I feel the parent has done due diligence to minimize the impact to other passengers and the crew.

Once due diligence has been made, then I feel it is up to those around the family to assist the parents if the child has an "attack" that causes disruption (it takes a village, after all). This could be from helping to distract the child during the flight to helping in disciplining the child during flight (a stern glance from an intimidating stranger many times has a chilling effect on a child and causes them to back down ). That said, if a parent does not permit those around them to assist when they are unable to calm the child, then they are once again culpable to the child's continued actions.

Disclaimer: When I say "good reason" for kicking, I don't mean poor parenting. Sometimes kids are forced to fly when they don't want to, since that is what the parent choose (for one reason or another). If the child has a medical condition like ADD, gets seizures, a mental disorder (like anxiety), claustrophobia, or whatever that would elicit this behavior, then it really isn't the child's fault and not the parent's either.

These are my thoughts, which I may or may not have explained with enough detail for a full understanding of the overall concepts. If you disagree, then let me know on what parts you disagree. If you do not fully understand, then please ask questions instead of outright disagreeing .

I 2nd the Wow!! You might as well put a sign on saying *beware my child - could be very disruptive to others' personal zone*! Your child is not *my* responsibility to parent.

Also, it is not my responsibility to give up the seat I wanted/needed to please you. It's *your* responsibility to ensure that your child does not get in my personal space, period!!

Also, goofyfortink, your last sentence, "Sad to see so many people jumping on parents when the kids behind them bang the seat a few times". Do you actually think that people get upset with banging the seat a *few* times? Actually the OP said *2* times. I really have a problem with the accuracy of that statement, especially after reading the rest of her post. It's amazing that she has not come back on here to defend her uncontrolled child.

 

[Bamagal]

Sad to see what this thread has turned into. Just needed some motherly advice on how to get a child home from Disney that didnt enjoy the plane ride. Our return flight is tomorrow. We are A 19-20 so we are going to sit behind the wing. Hopefully it will give her something to look at. We are wearing crocs that we will slip off as soon as we get in the plane incase she bumps the seat ahead and some activities for the ride.
Throughout reading the threads, I think my point was twisted. My child bumped a seat ahead of her twice. The lady instead of asking me to watch my child's feet, went and complained to the flight attendant. No need to escalate when I could have fixed the problem.

 

[lost*in*cyberspace]

I 2nd the Wow!! You might as well put a sign on saying *beware my child - could be very disruptive to others' personal zone*! Your child is not *my* responsibility to parent.

Also, it is not my responsibility to give up the seat I wanted/needed to please you. It's *your* responsibility to ensure that your child does not get in my personal space....

+1 +1 +1

I cannot believe someone thinks a PAX should be punished for refusing to give up their bulkhead seat so they can put their child there to solve the seat kicking problem. I can see why someone who proposes this as a good idea may have some problems teaching good manners to their child. It's also not the responsibility of other passengers to entertain or discipline your child.

This (original post North of Mouse is responding to), has to be one of the most outrageous posts I have read on this board.

 

[lost*in*cyberspace]

?...The lady instead of asking me to watch my child's feet, went and complained to the flight attendant. No need to escalate when I could have fixed the problem.

I hope after reading some of the responses from some of the posters here who don't seem to understand they are responsible for their child's behavior, you might understand why this lady just didn't want to deal with you directly.

Perhaps on the flight down, your daughter was just grumpy from changing her clothes so many times,

 

[Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina]

Sad to see what this thread has turned into. Just needed some motherly advice on how to get a child home from Disney that didnt enjoy the plane ride. Our return flight is tomorrow. We are A 19-20 so we are going to sit behind the wing. Hopefully it will give her something to look at. We are wearing crocs that we will slip off as soon as we get in the plane incase she bumps the seat ahead and some activities for the ride.
Throughout reading the threads, I think my point was twisted. My child bumped a seat ahead of her twice. The lady instead of asking me to watch my child's feet, went and complained to the flight attendant. No need to escalate when I could have fixed the problem.

To be fair, your original post suggested your DD's behaviour was more disruptive than two small kicks to the back of the seat. See the bolded areas below.....

It was horrible. She freaked out because she has to sit in her seat for a hour and a half. She kicked the seat in front of her twice and the lady went bollistic and called the fight attendant over to get onto us. She is three by the way. I held onto her legs the rest of the way as much as a I could. She had a few outburst of words and I kept trying to calm her. I seriously think my daughter was claustrophobic but would not take the aisle seat. How am I going to fly my child home? I'm so nervous. Should we just sit at the back of the plane? I'm not trying to judge anyone but my seat was kicked the whole flight by a kid behind me and I never complained. I think the lady took it too far especially glaring at my child. My dr suggested Benadryl when I told him we were flying. Anyone ever medicate their child to fly? I just need to make her calmer and me talking her through it didnt help at all.

I do wish you a peaceful and enjoyable flight......hopefully all will go well. For your sakes as well as those sharing the airplane with you.

 

[North of Mouse]

Sad to see what this thread has turned into. Just needed some motherly advice on how to get a child home from Disney that didnt enjoy the plane ride. Our return flight is tomorrow. We are A 19-20 so we are going to sit behind the wing. Hopefully it will give her something to look at. We are wearing crocs that we will slip off as soon as we get in the plane incase she bumps the seat ahead and some activities for the ride.
Throughout reading the threads, I think my point was twisted. My child bumped a seat ahead of her twice. The lady instead of asking me to watch my child's feet, went and complained to the flight attendant. No need to escalate when I could have fixed the problem.

You know OP, maybe you can answer a question. If your child only (you're saying bumped now, not kicked) bumped the lady's seat twice, why would you have to hold her legs down for the rest of the trip? Most people would not get upset with only two bumps - but constant, yes, I would too.

I just hope that your daughter becomes more adjusted to flying for both your sakes, and the sakes of the passengers that share the plane that deserve to have as stress free flight as possible.

 

[Bamagal]

Oh my daughter enjoyed her outfit changes! Thank for asking! We did 17 and did everything we wanted to do
My daughter was mad she was scolded for kicking the seat therefore she got more noisy and disruptive. Again. Could of been handled differently. I have put up with screaming kids and kicks all the time.

 

[LadyBeBop]

Oh my daughter enjoyed her outfit changes! Thank for asking! We did 17 and did everything we wanted to do
My daughter was mad she was scolded for kicking the seat therefore she got more noisy and disruptive. Again. Could of been handled differently. I have put up with screaming kids and kicks all the time.

As a parent, you live and learn. Let us know how today's flight goes, OK?

 

[goofy4tink]

My recommendation to the OP (and others that may have travel mates that might interfere with the seat in front of them) is to seek out a space with room. While kids can not sit in the Exit row, they can sit in a bulkhead seat (a seat with a wall or partition in from of them). While this is usually the first row on WN, it is worth a shot.

To be honest if I knew my DD was going to kick the front seat (for any number of reasons), I would get EBCI, then ask those in the bulkhead row if we could sit there and explain (briefly) the situation. If they decide not to give up their seats, I would likely sit in the row behind them, instead. I would then apologize in advance for any possible seat kicking and be specific about letting them know I will try hard to minimize the impact on their travel.

Not to be obnoxious, but if there is a good reason for sitting in the bulkhead row (other than simple comfort), then when I explain it and the people choose not to surrender their seats (for comfort sake), then they might as well be the ones to get the kicking instead of someone who didn't even have that option early in the boarding process. Otherwise, any other seat on a WN flight will have someone in front of the kicking child.

If a solution exists (like a bulkhead seat in this instance) and all attempts by the parent are made to secure the least disruptive seat (by asking the gate agent to board early, getting EBCI, asking people in the BH seat to trade, warning the FA and people around me of the child's possible behavior) and to control the child during flight, then I feel the parent has done due diligence to minimize the impact to other passengers and the crew.

Once due diligence has been made, then I feel it is up to those around the family to assist the parents if the child has an "attack" that causes disruption (it takes a village, after all). This could be from helping to distract the child during the flight to helping in disciplining the child during flight (a stern glance from an intimidating stranger many times has a chilling effect on a child and causes them to back down ). That said, if a parent does not permit those around them to assist when they are unable to calm the child, then they are once again culpable to the child's continued actions.

Disclaimer: When I say "good reason" for kicking, I don't mean poor parenting. Sometimes kids are forced to fly when they don't want to, since that is what the parent choose (for one reason or another). If the child has a medical condition like ADD, gets seizures, a mental disorder (like anxiety), claustrophobia, or whatever that would elicit this behavior, then it really isn't the child's fault and not the parent's either.

These are my thoughts, which I may or may not have explained with enough detail for a full understanding of the overall concepts. If you disagree, then let me know on what parts you disagree. If you do not fully understand, then please ask questions instead of outright disagreeing .

You are aware that those sitting in those bulkhead seats are usually there for a reason, right? They could be medical preboards, or minors flying alone. It is presumptuous of someone to think that an already seated passenger is going to change seats with them.

Also, I don't think it's my job, or anyone else's for that matter, to help a parent calm their child, or to prevent that child from being disruptive. Again, very presumptuous. There is no way that I am going to interfere with a parent trying to parent their child. I doubt I would have welcomed 'assistence' if I were in that situation!!!

There is no way to be sure a child isn't going to be disruptive on a flight. I have had kids behind me sticking their hands between the seats and sort of waving at me!!! Oh, their parents thought it was 'soooo cute'..it wasn't. Or the child that kept grabbing my hair from behind. Yeah, that was fun. And in all these instances, the parents could have prevented those actions. But they chose not to. An unhappy child, kicking at me seat would have actually been preferable!!!

 

[Bamagal]

We were great until the last 15 minutes. She had to potty we went and then she thought she could walk around. When I had to buckle her in, it was HELL! No kicking. Just crying. We are done flying. My child can't handle the flights. You live you learn.

 

[goofy4tink]

We were great until the last 15 minutes. She had to potty we went and then she thought she could walk around. When I had to buckle her in, it was HELL! No kicking. Just crying. We are done flying. My child can't handle the flights. You live you learn.

Sometimes kids just can't wrap their minds around what is expected of them...especially in new situations. And depending on the child's 'make-up', they can be much harder to deal with than other, more flexible kids. Sounds like you did pretty well up to the final few minutes. Good for you guys!!
I'll bet you're glad you don't have that to look forward to anymore!!!