So just why is Disney raising ticket prices so early

[hookedonears]

The irony is that if less people came as the prices were too high - then suddenly the park is less crowded and becomes a better value for those who do pay and visit.

I'll dub this the Disney Ticket Paradox: that higher prices are good for me no matter what - either I decide NOT to go and save my $$$, or I decide TO go and have a better experience than if prices were lower.

We could go every year, but couldn't afford to do the trip the way we want to do it. As a family we started going every year for a few years and then switched to every other year because of increased prices, and now our next trip isn't going to be until 2013, because we're not going if we cant afford to do it the way we want to.

 

[aurorae]

What is Disney's pace? Your rant about how Disney is ahead of the curve in raising prices would mean a lot more if you backed it up with numbers. Compare it to something -- gas prices, say. Or milk. Compare the annual percentage of Disney's increase to the annual percentage of airline travel or college tuition increase. Heck ... compare it to the consumer price index or the rate of inflation. I'm not saying you're wrong, but at least look at Disney in the big picture. My guess is that Disney is right there somewhere in the middle and not nearly as big and evil and greedy as you think they are.

I recall this being covered on the Dis Unplugged podcast in the past. Disney has been increasing ticket prices faster than inflation for a long time now.

On the podcast, they quoted the ticket prices and the percent increases.

 

[flicx]

What is Disney's pace? Your rant about how Disney is ahead of the curve in raising prices would mean a lot more if you backed it up with numbers. Compare it to something -- gas prices, say. Or milk. Compare the annual percentage of Disney's increase to the annual percentage of airline travel or college tuition increase. Heck ... compare it to the consumer price index or the rate of inflation. I'm not saying you're wrong, but at least look at Disney in the big picture. My guess is that Disney is right there somewhere in the middle and not nearly as big and evil and greedy as you think they are.

Well searcher you wanted it so here it is.I did a comparison from the year 1985 when I went on my honeymoon to disney.So here goes.In 1985 milk was 2.26 a gallon now lets say 5.00 would be a fair number.Bread 1.00 a loaf now roughly 2.00 to 3.00 would be a fair number.Gas was 1.20 a gallon now say 4.00 is a fair number.I also paid 125.00 for airfare to florida in 85,now I can fly for 180.00.Now how did disney fair in this time period? One day pass in 85 was 17.00 now 85.00.Three day pass was 42.00 now 224.00 for a base pass(also remember in 85 park hopping was a free option as was no expiration) isn't anymore!An annual pass in 85 was 140.00 now 519.00(many more restrictions also).Parking in 85 was 2.00 now 14.00. Now the basic necessities in life have gone up by as much as a three times multiplier.However disney increases range in the 500% to 700% range!Quite a difference.Now when you factor in the changes in value seasons(alot less available now) the surcharges thrown in that are too numerous to mention.It all equals a rate way ahead of the curve! A rate that I believe if continued would not be a good thing for the parks!

 

[jayandstacey]

Disney changed $4.95 on opening day. According to my handy dandy CPI calculator, that's worth $27.62 in today's money. Today's ticket is $90.53, over three times the inflation-adjusted initial admission.

And while you might say "but there are 4 parks now..." I'm comparing to a one-person, one-day, one-park ticket that expires. For your $90.53, you aren't allowed in the other parks.

I suspect the original tickets, once purchased, didn't expire - thus a better comparison may be $27.62 to $102.77 - but you HAVE to buy a two-day pass at $205.55

Back in 1971, many rides required an additional ticket ("e" tickets, for instance)...OK, this stopped by 1982, when a one day ticket was $14.00 (in 1982 dollars)...which would have the buying power of $32.78 in today's dollars.

SOOOO...somewhere after 1982, the rate of Disney park admission prices has increased at a rate just of about triple the CPI. And remember, CPI is an index of common household items, measured and reset every year, thus reflecting buying power of actual items, not of interest or exchange rates.

 

[flicx]

Disney changed $4.95 on opening day. According to my handy dandy CPI calculator, that's worth $27.62 in today's money. Today's ticket is $90.53, over three times the inflation-adjusted initial admission.

And while you might say "but there are 4 parks now..." I'm comparing to a one-person, one-day, one-park ticket that expires. For your $90.53, you aren't allowed in the other parks.

I suspect the original tickets, once purchased, didn't expire - thus a better comparison may be $27.62 to $102.77 - but you HAVE to buy a two-day pass at $205.55

Back in 1971, many rides required an additional ticket ("e" tickets, for instance)...OK, this stopped by 1982, when a one day ticket was $14.00 (in 1982 dollars)...which would have the buying power of $32.78 in today's dollars.

SOOOO...somewhere after 1982, the rate of Disney park admission prices has increased at a rate just of about triple the CPI. And remember, CPI is an index of common household items, measured and reset every year, thus reflecting buying power of actual items, not of interest or exchange rates.

Tickets didn't expire in those days and you could park hop also.The numbers you have basically simplified show what I am most concerned about,pricing many out of going.I hope the higher ups soon realize they need to go in a different direction.I truly think disney should be a park for almost anyone to enjoy not a select portion of the population!

 

[jayandstacey]

So, you might say that WDW is so much more these days - and overall, yes, it certainly is. But when we're only talking about park admission prices and once you walk through the gate - is MK today that much different from what MK was like in 1982?

Back then, MK cost the equivalent of a nice night out for a family (maybe dinner and a movie). Now it costs the same family about 3 of the same nights out.

What's changed isn't the offer on the day the ticket is used - MK is still the same MK. Rather the circumstances surrounding the use of that ticket have changed. WDW used to be a weekend destination for the middle class, now it is more of a weeklong resort for the upper class.

The ideal scenario is that WDW still maintains overall profitability and occupancy rates while NOT filling up the park. And so what happens is that as Disney adds more capacity elsewhere (waterparks, DTD, golf, etc, etc) is has the pricing power to raise park ticket prices - as now maybe only 3 or 4 of the days of the week are spent in the parks. Disney actually wants to push people to the other options, and does so by making them seem 'cheap' compared to another day in the park.

 

[brunette8706]

Disney changed $4.95 on opening day. According to my handy dandy CPI calculator, that's worth $27.62 in today's money. Today's ticket is $90.53, over three times the inflation-adjusted initial admission.

And while you might say "but there are 4 parks now..." I'm comparing to a one-person, one-day, one-park ticket that expires. For your $90.53, you aren't allowed in the other parks.

I suspect the original tickets, once purchased, didn't expire - thus a better comparison may be $27.62 to $102.77 - but you HAVE to buy a two-day pass at $205.55

Back in 1971, many rides required an additional ticket ("e" tickets, for instance)...OK, this stopped by 1982, when a one day ticket was $14.00 (in 1982 dollars)...which would have the buying power of $32.78 in today's dollars.

SOOOO...somewhere after 1982, the rate of Disney park admission prices has increased at a rate just of about triple the CPI. And remember, CPI is an index of common household items, measured and reset every year, thus reflecting buying power of actual items, not of interest or exchange rates.

*
Great analogy!!!

 

[3prettyprincesses]

Very interesting discussion. I've enjoyed reading both sides of the coin here.

It is surprising to see the general trend of Disney raising prices when compared to inflation. Probably not the smartest move in this economy but Disney is a business and will either survive or decline based on their decisions. That's the beauty of the free market. Somehow I don't think they're hurting too much.

I suppose what bothers me a bit more than the ticket price increases is that a ten year old child is considered an adult. So for me, I now have two children in that category which raises our overall vacation somewhere around $1400 or so. That increase carries over not only for tickets but also the dining plan.

Bottom line for me is that Disney seems to be deteriorating in a qualitative sense to the point where I no longer feel it's worth the $8,00+ cost of a vacation there. When DH and I sat down and really calculated the costs, it doesn't seem like a value to us anymore. Even with a discount. Our rooms at the deluxe resorts showed such wear and tear that I couldn't believe I was spending $400 a night there. Our room was left dirty several times, housekeeping was a joke honestly. They must be horribly understaffed which makes me think again that Disney is cutting back but raising prices. Just my two cents worth. Thanks everyone for sharing their thoughts though, I appreciate it.

ETA: I perused a couple of comments upthread regarding Disney's marketing of themselves as an affordable family vacation. I distinctly remember a commercial with a husband and wife sitting at a computer, pricing out a vacation and saying hey, it's not that expensive. So I'd have to agree that they have marketed it as such, at least in the past. Their current promo is the special memories each family can make at Disney.

 

[TLSnell1981]

I suppose what bothers me a bit more than the ticket price increases is that a ten year old child is considered an adult. So for me, I now have two children in that category which raises our overall vacation somewhere around $1400 or so. That increase carries over not only for tickets but also the dining plan.

.

Yeah, 10 year olds are adults..in Disney's eyes. One can argue, kids have access to all rides, at that age. But, the dining prices....REALLY sticks in my craw...

 

[3prettyprincesses]

Yeah, 10 year olds are adults in Disney's eyes. One can argue, kids have access to all rides, at that age. But, the dining prices....REALLY sticks in my craw...

No kidding. Like my ten year old is really thinking hey, now I can order the mushroom filet instead of the chicken nuggets. It is a significant price increase, going from a child to ten year old adult, and it adds up.

 

[GadgetRick]

Yeah, 10 year olds are adults..in Disney's eyes. One can argue, kids have access to all rides, at that age. But, the dining prices....REALLY sticks in my craw...

Even worse is they charge so much for a 3 year old. Now, I have two boys (8 and 5) and I can tell you, at 3, neither of them were able to take advantage of a whole lot outside of MK. And even in MK, there are a lot of attractions a 3 year old isn't able to ride or handle.

I don't mind paying for a service but, at 3, you're really not using that service all that much.

At 10, I still think it's much considering them an adult but, at least, they can take advantage of everything at all of the parks. At 3 you just can't...

 

[mom2rtk]

At 10, I still think it's much considering them an adult but, at least, they can take advantage of everything at all of the parks. At 3 you just can't...

Wait til you have to start paying the adult rate for the dining plan for a 10 year old who wants chicken nuggets and hot dogs anyway!

I don't begrudge Disney the huge percentage increase over what they charged on opening day. That's really not a fair comparison. After all, they took the risk buying swampland in the middle of FL and created an entire industry.

I don't even really mind them raising ticket prices a bit, even in an economy that is not even remotely close to turning around. But I DO think it was a PR blunder to escalate their timing on it at such a bad time for most families. It's sort of a slap in the face to families struggling with deflated wages and inflated prices at the pump and grocery story.

 

[hookedonears]

Disney changed $4.95 on opening day. According to my handy dandy CPI calculator, that's worth $27.62 in today's money. Today's ticket is $90.53, over three times the inflation-adjusted initial admission.

And while you might say "but there are 4 parks now..." I'm comparing to a one-person, one-day, one-park ticket that expires. For your $90.53, you aren't allowed in the other parks.

I suspect the original tickets, once purchased, didn't expire - thus a better comparison may be $27.62 to $102.77 - but you HAVE to buy a two-day pass at $205.55

Back in 1971, many rides required an additional ticket ("e" tickets, for instance)...OK, this stopped by 1982, when a one day ticket was $14.00 (in 1982 dollars)...which would have the buying power of $32.78 in today's dollars.

SOOOO...somewhere after 1982, the rate of Disney park admission prices has increased at a rate just of about triple the CPI. And remember, CPI is an index of common household items, measured and reset every year, thus reflecting buying power of actual items, not of interest or exchange rates.

Do your calculations take into affect the devaluation of the dollar?

 

[WDSearcher]

We could go every year, but couldn't afford to do the trip the way we want to do it. As a family we started going every year for a few years and then switched to every other year because of increased prices, and now our next trip isn't going to be until 2013, because we're not going if we cant afford to do it the way we want to.

And that's the thing. Doing it the way you want to. My family could afford to go to Disney every year -- twice or three times, actually -- if they wanted to stay at POP, pack their lunch, eat breakfast in the room, not rent a car, not park hop, and limit TS dining to one meal per trip. But that's not how they roll. They want to stay at DAK Lodge or Wilderness Lodge. They want a car. They want horseback riding and sea mice and a character meal. They want Le Cellier and California Grill and Via Napoli. They don't want to bring in a ton of food to offset in-park food costs. They're on vacation.

So while a Disney vacation could be a twice-a-year thing for them if they wanted to go that route (and believe me, they've thought long and hard about it!), they choose instead to spend their money on a more luxurious trip. And if Disney were to lower it's ticket prices, my family would simply use the savings to upgrade to the next level of resort room. Disney would get the same amount of money out of them either way.

 

[WDSearcher]

Well searcher you wanted it so here it is.I did a comparison from the year 1985 when I went on my honeymoon to disney.So here goes.In 1985 milk was 2.26 a gallon now lets say 5.00 would be a fair number.Bread 1.00 a loaf now roughly 2.00 to 3.00 would be a fair number.Gas was 1.20 a gallon now say 4.00 is a fair number.I also paid 125.00 for airfare to florida in 85,now I can fly for 180.00.Now how did disney fair in this time period? One day pass in 85 was 17.00 now 85.00.Three day pass was 42.00 now 224.00 for a base pass(also remember in 85 park hopping was a free option as was no expiration) isn't anymore!An annual pass in 85 was 140.00 now 519.00(many more restrictions also).Parking in 85 was 2.00 now 14.00. Now the basic necessities in life have gone up by as much as a three times multiplier.However disney increases range in the 500% to 700% range!Quite a difference.Now when you factor in the changes in value seasons(alot less available now) the surcharges thrown in that are too numerous to mention.It all equals a rate way ahead of the curve! A rate that I believe if continued would not be a good thing for the parks!

Aside from the fact that you basically guessed at the prices of a lot of stuff and generalized a whole lot of other stuff, thank you for at least attempting the math.

In 1985 there were only two parks; there are currently four parks, so you would expect an annual pass to have risen significantly each time a new park was added. There are more rides, shows, entertainment experiences and attractions in the parks now than there were in 1985, so you have to also factor in that Disney itself has grown along with their pricing structure. The product you get now is bigger and more technologically advanced than what was presented in 1985. You may not think that Everest or TSM or Fantasmic! are worth the bump in price, but they're a far cry from something like Thunder Mountain or Sorcery in the Sky.

Your $125 flight in 1985 vs your $180 flight now doesn't quite take into account the fact that in 1985 your plane had more room, served food, loaded your bags for free, charged far less in taxes and was, IMO, a far better experience. Plus ... that $125 was probably rack rate. The $180 you can get now is likely based on scouring lots of different websites, buying on the discount, carrying on your own luggage and food, cramping yourself into a seat and being on an absolutely packed airplane. So ... not really the same experience. If you were to compare the $125 flight you paid for in '85 with a comparable flight now, you'd be flying first class!

My point with the whole exercise is that Disney has raised their prices while also adding stuff -- parks, attractions, shows, rides, landscaping, dining, tours, etc. Gas, milk, bread ... they charge twice as much and give you .... what? Same product. Except in the case of the bread, probably a few slices less per loaf. Your flight doesn't appear to have gone up all that much, but you've lost a ton of services to keep that price low. A flight now is not the same as a flight twenty years ago. And it's certainly not giving you more than you used to get.

And all of that is why I still think of WDW as a value. It's not cheap, but I get my money's worth. You may not feel that way. Or you may actually feel as though you are getting your money's worth, you're just mad that it costs more. But whether you want to call Disney greedy or money grubbing or whatever, it's comparable to other experiences of its kind. For my family, a single non-park-hopping day at WDW is worth considerably more than a single non-park-hopping day at Universal. And yet, as of this morning, they cost exactly the same. YMMV

 

[GadgetRick]

Wait til you have to start paying the adult rate for the dining plan for a 10 year old who wants chicken nuggets and hot dogs anyway!

No need to worry about that. I stopped doing the plan years ago. Stopped staying onsite about 2 years ago and we don't eat meals on-site very often any longer due to the ridiculous cost increases to the food and the horrible food quality. We do, however, occasionally do a character breakie. Food is still good but at $70+ for a family of 4 it's getting a bit expensive which is why we don't do that very often anymore...

 

[WDSearcher]

Disney changed $4.95 on opening day. According to my handy dandy CPI calculator, that's worth $27.62 in today's money. Today's ticket is $90.53, over three times the inflation-adjusted initial admission.

OK. How many attractions, rides and shows could you get for that $4.95 (or, rather, that $27.62) vs. the number of attractions, rides and shows you get for $90.53 today? Since most rides and attractions on opening day required additional tickets to be purchased, and since that $4.95 ($27.62) only covered basic admission and a few rides, my guess is that the over three times I'm paying for MK today is giving me well over three times the offerings. Particularly when you consider that I could literally spend all day long riding one thing over and over and over again, unlike on opening day, when I needed a hard ticket to ride something like Jungle Cruise or Pirates or see the Tiki Birds and then, if I wanted to see it again, had to use / buy another ticket. You have to look at value, not just price. The $90.53 ticket I buy today is worth more inside the park than the $4.95 ticket I could buy in 1985.

I suspect the original tickets, once purchased, didn't expire - thus a better comparison may be $27.62 to $102.77 - but you HAVE to buy a two-day pass at $205.55

The original tickets, actually, were only good for one day. Multi-day tickets weren't offered until 1980. So I'm not sure that you can make that claim on an opening day price ticket.

Back in 1971, many rides required an additional ticket ("e" tickets, for instance)...OK, this stopped by 1982, when a one day ticket was $14.00 (in 1982 dollars)...which would have the buying power of $32.78 in today's dollars.

SOOOO...somewhere after 1982, the rate of Disney park admission prices has increased at a rate just of about triple the CPI. And remember, CPI is an index of common household items, measured and reset every year, thus reflecting buying power of actual items, not of interest or exchange rates.

Again ... for that buying power of $32.78, how many rides and attractions were you getting vs. the ones you're getting for your $90+ today? Are you receiving three times the value for three times the price? I am. You may not be.

 

[GadgetRick]

Aside from the fact that you basically guessed at the prices of a lot of stuff and generalized a whole lot of other stuff, thank you for at least attempting the math.

In 1985 there were only two parks; there are currently four parks, so you would expect an annual pass to have risen significantly each time a new park was added. There are more rides, shows, entertainment experiences and attractions in the parks now than there were in 1985, so you have to also factor in that Disney itself has grown along with their pricing structure. The product you get now is bigger and more technologically advanced than what was presented in 1985. You may not think that Everest or TSM or Fantasmic! are worth the bump in price, but they're a far cry from something like Thunder Mountain or Sorcery in the Sky.

Your $125 flight in 1985 vs your $180 flight now doesn't quite take into account the fact that in 1985 your plane had more room, served food, loaded your bags for free, charged far less in taxes and was, IMO, a far better experience. Plus ... that $125 was probably rack rate. The $180 you can get now is likely based on scouring lots of different websites, buying on the discount, carrying on your own luggage and food, cramping yourself into a seat and being on an absolutely packed airplane. So ... not really the same experience. If you were to compare the $125 flight you paid for in '85 with a comparable flight now, you'd be flying first class!

My point with the whole exercise is that Disney has raised their prices while also adding stuff -- parks, attractions, shows, rides, landscaping, dining, tours, etc. Gas, milk, bread ... they charge twice as much and give you .... what? Same product. Except in the case of the bread, probably a few slices less per loaf. Your flight doesn't appear to have gone up all that much, but you've lost a ton of services to keep that price low. A flight now is not the same as a flight twenty years ago. And it's certainly not giving you more than you used to get.

And all of that is why I still think of WDW as a value. It's not cheap, but I get my money's worth. You may not feel that way. Or you may actually feel as though you are getting your money's worth, you're just mad that it costs more. But whether you want to call Disney greedy or money grubbing or whatever, it's comparable to other experiences of its kind. For my family, a single non-park-hopping day at WDW is worth considerably more than a single non-park-hopping day at Universal. And yet, as of this morning, they cost exactly the same. YMMV

Keep in mind you can make the same case against Disney for taking things away while raising those prices. Sure, they've added more but they've also taken a lot away. I'm more comparing today to the last 10ish years as I think it's a much better comparison rather than to when they first opened.

When you run a business like Disney, you know it's an expensive proposition. It's a gamble every time you spend millions of dollars on an attraction (e.g. Expedition Everest) and hoping it generates enough additional revenue to justify the cost amortized over x number of years. These things cost more money but they also bring in more people so that offsets the costs quite a bit but it's not a hard number (the number of people who come for a new attraction).

You can, however, put a hard number on the things which have been taken away recently (say in the last 10ish years). Here's a partial list I can think of off the top of my head (I'm sure I'm missing things):

-Non-expiring tickets (without paying extra) - if I remember correctly, they did this one year at the same time as raising ticket prices (could be wrong on this one). If that was truly the case it was a double whammy....
-DDP has obviously gone through changes - less food for more money unless you decide to pay more money for the same amount of food.
-Less staff - less staff everywhere has definitely had an impact on the quality of service. It's still quite good but not what it used to be. I've experienced this on many occasions.
-No package delivery to rooms - and they don't even call you to let you know your package has arrived at the resort store any longer.

This is just a short list of the things which you can put a number on (so to say). There are many other soft things which I've noticed which are gone over the years from better pins for things such as the Keys to the Kingdom tours to less stickers given out to kids throughout WDW to going to the generic (boring) birthday buttons (Remember when they had one from each park? I do, I have one from each park!). Honestly, these little things (imo) are much more important to the Disney experience than any pricing issue. But it's hard to put a number on these soft things.

Basically, Disney has done some upgrading of their parks and other things but they've also taken a lot away. Is it a wash or skewed one way or another? I have no idea but I do know I miss many of these things they've taken away. If they were still doing these things I wouldn't be noticing the price increases quite as much.

 

[WDSearcher]

Tickets didn't expire in those days and you could park hop also.The numbers you have basically simplified show what I am most concerned about,pricing many out of going.I hope the higher ups soon realize they need to go in a different direction. I truly think disney should be a park for almost anyone to enjoy not a select portion of the population!

You actually couldn't hop until 1982, when Epcot was built. And they didn't start offering multi-day tickets until 1980. So until 1980, there were no leftovers on your ticket to expire (you bought a seperate ticket for every day you were in the park). And until 1982, a multi-day ticket was only good for one park. Starting in 1982, your multi-day ticket was, indeed, a park hopper (two parks) and didn't expire provided you had leftover days from your 3- or 4- day passport.

Two questions, regarding your comment of "I truly think disney should be a park for almost anyone to enjoy not a select portion of the population!"

1. What do you think would be a fair ticket price that would both reflect what WDW has to offer and would also make it possible for "almost anyone to enjoy"? (Keep in mind that the ticket price is often not the most expensive part of a WDW vacation -- there's travel and lodging in there too, so be sure to set the price low enough to make up for the money people would have to spend to get there.)

2. If WDW were suddenly cheaper and it was possible for "almost anyone to enjoy", what do you think that would do to the crowds and, in turn, the overall guest experience?

 

[rt2dz]

I suppose what bothers me a bit more than the ticket price increases is that a ten year old child is considered an adult.

Yeah, 10 year olds are adults..in Disney's eyes. One can argue, kids have access to all rides, at that age. But, the dining prices....REALLY sticks in my craw...

No kidding. Like my ten year old is really thinking hey, now I can order the mushroom filet instead of the chicken nuggets. It is a significant price increase, going from a child to ten year old adult, and it adds up.

I totally agree, although I will admit, my kids wouldn't touch a chicken nugget for anything and MUCH prefer a more "adult" meal; although not anything overly fancy. That's part of my problem with Disney's restaurants--the kids menu is very fast food that my kids don't eat and is not healthy for them to eat for 10 days. Junk food is a treat, not a staple!

Disney would probably fare better if they had a junior price on the tickets. Perhaps just split the difference between adult and child.