So frustrated with Scouts, I could scream! UPDATE:: POST 21!

[roliepolieoliefan]

My DS (9) joined scouts last year with his BFF. They were put in the same den obviously. Well this leader was a real ya hoo. Cancelled meetings, didn't call. Never scheduled activities. Assumed we knew, but didn't since it was our 1st year.

DH, myself as well as DS was very frustrated. At the banquet, he wondered why their dens activity table was bare and all the others were over flowing. (Because your leader is a PITA)

DS wanted to quit but I talked to the scoutmaster almost 1 month ago and told him my concerns. He said he didn't think it would be a problem to switch , he would let the corrdinator know. So lo and behold I get an email tonight from the corrdinator, DS can't switch, it would make the dens lopsided.

A month it took to figure this out. I just told her if DS can't switch, we're done. Its not worth it. He's not getting anything out of it. I also forwarded a copy to the scoutmaster.

DS wanted to quit prior to me talking to the scoutmaster but he said he would give it another try since he could switch dens and still be with his friend(since they let him switch) But I know when I tell him , no forget it he has to stay in his same den, he's not going to want to stay in scouts. Makes me mad. Since him and his friend live in different districts, it was something for them to do together.

Just a vent. Thx for listening.

 

[WildGrits]

If the scoutmaster is telling you that he can switch then who is telling you that he can't? The Leader? Isn't the leader only over one den? That leader has no say over whether you leave one den and go to another. If the Leader of the new den offers to take you then the first one has no say in the matter.

 

[roliepolieoliefan]

If the scoutmaster is telling you that he can switch then who is telling you that he can't? The Leader? Isn't the leader only over one den? That leader has no say over whether you leave one den and go to another. If the Leader of the new den offers to take you then the first one has no say in the matter.

No its not the leader from DS's den. Its the pack coordinator. She is the person who organizes everything. She said DS can't move because it will put too many kids in 1 den and not another.

I'm just frustrated also because its been a month for crying out loud. I don't know really if DS will be upset or not. He just finished up day camp and had a great time. So I'm thinking yes.

 

[WildGrits]

That seems kind of foolish.

This coordinator would risk losing scouts over having dens be off balance. Did you tell this person why? You can't be the only one with this complaint seeing as your friend has already changed dens.

Is the coordinator a paid employee? If not then find out who is above this person.

It is unfortunate that scouts do not teach uniformly. Lots of times an adult wants to lead in scouts, only to find it very overwhelming. And many times these folks don't realize that they are causing thier charges to lose out.

I love scouts and feel that it has a lot of offer our community. Unfortunately with any organization that relies on volunteers, sometimes you get what you pay for.

On the other hand. If your son is having fun and making friends, that really the purpose. I went to scouts for years as a child. The only thing I remember is making a bird feeder out of a pinecone.

 

[roliepolieoliefan]

Hi Melissa,

Well I didn't originally tell the coordinator the "real" reason I wanted to switch DS's den. But when I talked to the scoutmaster a month ago, I told him the real reason and in turn said he would take care of it. Well from the email I got tonight, the coordinator obviously did not know the real reason for wanting to switch dens.

In both emails I wrote tonight, I did tell the coordinator and scoutmaster , if DS can't switch, he' s done, so I'm not sure if that will change their thinking or not. From what I experienced so far, I'm thinking no. I told both of them, I'm not trying to be rude or nasty, but DH , myself and DS are tired and frustrated and we all feel like we're wasting time.

The coordinator is not a paid position and this woman is extremely unorganized. For day camp, she ordered all the shirts in a kids medium, hello is there a reason I put my kids size on the form. Some kids shirts were to their knees, my sons barely fit.

I understand its all volunteer and I do help out alot, which makes this alot more frustrating also. DS has made some friends, but if he keeps the same leader its not worth it, I know DS won't want to continue.

 

[Dancemom03]

I'm thinking that at nine (4th grade?) he'd be entering Webelos this year if he stayed - or is he a bear?
I ask because dens don't have to equal but it is easier to recruit bears so an arguement for moving to another bear den would be that the old den could take a few new scouts signing up at scout night in September to even it back up again.

On the other hand, the webelos program is very different from the ranks of wolves or bears and might be just the ticket to refresh your DS' adventures in scouting. Webelos do so much more and an active organized den leader is even more important. There are more campouts, ski trips, badges, projects and activities required to complete the program. Most webelos dens work with a scout troop and often have a boy scout who helps out every week also. That usually generates more interest & enthusiasm among not just the boys, but the leaders as well.

Have you considered moving to a different pack (not a den but an entirely new cub pack)? Each cub scout pack does things differently and has different leadership. Maybe both boys would be interested in another area pack. Around here transfers are always welcome. You'd just have to change the unit number patches on their sleeves and fill out the transfer papers.

I don't know who the pack coordinator you mentioned is but if you've been told that your son can't switch dens by the unit leaders (both the cubmaster & the committee chair have been made aware of the problem without results) then your next step is to call the unit commissioner for your pack and explain your concerns.
The unit commisioner is a past leader with years of experience responsible for overseeing cub packs and boy scouts troops in your area. They are still a volunteer but above the pack and should be notified of any issues that would be serious enough to affect a young man's future scouting career. You can find that leader's number by calling the Boy scouts of america area council for your city (it's in the yellow pages) and asking for the name and number of the unit commissioner for your pack.
While you're calling council for that number, I'd also suggest a conversation with the BSA District Executive as well. He (or she) is the person paid by the BSA to oversee the units and ensure that things in your area run smoothly and that membership is maintained and encouraged.

It may be that your den leader just needs a little extra training and encouragement. Perhaps he's new, perhaps he's not and is burning out. It's a volunteer position that is often not that sought after these days. Whatever the case may be, I agree that the boys need to enjoy what they do and be active to continue in the adventure of scouting. If you have to argue to get them out of the house for meetings then it's definitely time to transfer or quit.

Have you ever sat in on a pack committee meeting? That's a perfect way to effect change without ruffling too many feathers. They are open to the parents and are scheduled every month to discuss plans/issues/events/funds/activities/ect for the entire cub pack. All den leaders as well all the other leaders (ie.- the advancement chair, cubmaster, treasurer, committee chair, fundraising chair, unit commissioner, ect) are expected to attend these monthly committee meetings.
Most packs welcome and actively seek parental involvement and volunteers. They love for parents to show up and share in the planning/give input during committee meetings. Even by attending and just listening though, you'll also get a feel for how things are done on a pack level, as well as in the other dens, and how active/oragnized/prepared your son's den leader is.

I wish you luck, scouting is an awesome experience that can open countless doors for young men and provide lifelong friends, experiences and memories. It would be a shame to see your DS give up before enjoying all that scouts has to offer.

 

[darlak]

Dancemom03 has great advice. Go to your area council if necessary. My DH was a Scoutmaster for many years. His advice is to just keep going up the chain of command. We never had any problems of that nature with BS, but GS were a different matter. It still saddens me that my DD could never participate in scouting.

 

[roliepolieoliefan]

Like I said its not the leader of the new den its the pack coordinator who said he can't move.

I wasn't sure if I could go higher in ranks, now that I know I can, that may be a very good suggestion. Yes, I have volunteered and sat in as well as DH on many meetings. DS's friends dad even offered to the current leader to take over his den if it was "too much for him" and he refused. To me that sounds like he doesn't think there is a problem. He has been doing the leader job for about 5 years now.

Yes, DS will be a Weeblo. And I know it will get harder as the year goes on. That is why we need more support and guidance, one of the reasons we wanted to switch dens. I am going to wait and see the response now I get from the coordinator and scoutmaster but I'm sure they may not change their minds.

DS 's friend won't move since that is the district they live in. Our original town we lived in didn't have scouts plus it was a thing for DS and friend to do together, so thats why DS joined this den, so I'm not sure if he will move without his friend. We'll see. Thx for all the great advice.

 

[Suzanna1973]

The Committee is in charge over the Cubmaster. Take it to them. My husband was our DS's cubmaster for 3 years and I know that he would never like for a boy to be miserable while in scouts and would gladly switch dens if there were problems. Take it to the committee.

 

[fortheluvofpooh]

I am amazed that they would not allow your son to switch. When our DS was a 2nd yr cub we switched troops completely. We were so dissatisfied with our local cub scouts. The other troop was about 12 miles further from home as compared to the one we were in being about 1/2 mile from home. BUT it was so worth the distance. My son is now currently a boy scout new member and we travel 16 miles from home, all in all still not going to the one 1/2 mile from home. It may be to your liking to switch troops. Shop around. be aggresive. Scouting is a wonderful journey for your son.

 

[I'mNoPrince]

To me it sounds like you might not be the only one wanting to switch. So to save the Den they came to an agreement ot not let anyone go and maybe even had a talk with the den leader that he needs to get it together or else.

We had the same thing with DD way back when and it turned her off to scouts for good. She would go and just do her own crafts even bringing stuff from home and this was at the age of 5 or 6 .

 

[DawnM]

There are probably other troops in the area. I would just switch. My boys are switching scout troops this year, because we will no longer be homeschooling and the one they were in is a homeschool only troop. They aren't thrilled to switch, but I think it will work out.

Ask around to find out good troops. The one we are going TO is highly recommended and even advertizes as their motto: "The active troop." They do more than our last troop!

Best of luck, but please, don't give up on scouting all together.

Dawn

 

[Stimpy]

I hope you can work it out. We are into cub scouts too. (Dh is a den leader & I do all the work , plus I'm on the Pack committee.) We had this problem with one of the other dens and it finally came down to the Pack Master asking the leader to resign. Anyway, I'm really surprised they are giving you a hard time switching! We have 4 new boys coming into our den from another pack in September b/c there were problems in their old one. I know our Council will do almost anything to encourage the boys to stay involved with scouting. Try going higher up. Good Luck to you and your family

 

[disney6family]

Dance mom 03 has some great advice - webelos is a whole new program for those scouts who may have gotten tired of the same old thing in tigers, wolves and bears. It really can renew everyone's interest.
Don't give up on scouts because of one bad den leader - if your Cubmaster won't do something - go to your pack committee. Then go to your District Executive, then to your council's Scout Executive. If they won't act - switch packs, there are usually more than one in an area.
Sometimes you just get a leader that is not quite the best, the ways to make this better, even though I know you are already at your quit point, are to volunteer to help at meetings, get supplies, make phone calls, start a phone tree. In 4 scout groups I have 52 scouts (brownies, bears, webelos II and boy scouts) and it can get overwhelming and confusing some days in our house. It sounds like your son's leader has other organizational problems but sometimes we just need some help from the parents.
We always take any boys who want to come into our den - in fact in both of our cub scout dens we have almost a dozen, while the other den in our pack (same age) only have 4-6. This pack co-ordinator sounds like she may be on a power trip. With the upcoming fall membership drive the pack should gain more boys and I can't believe you just can't switch.
Also, make sure when you are talking to anyone at council you specify it is DENS you wanted to switch in your PACK and your CUBMASTER wouldn't do this for you. Because I know our pack/ troop have the same number and that could get confusing for the council people who don't always know the leader's names if you say scoutmaster and troop.

 

[Tam1067]

Have you thought about volunteering to help be a den leader for the den you're in? My DH was den leader for my younger son, and became frustrated with other parents who did absolutely nothing--and I mean nothing--to help. They acted as if we were paid babysitters who were supposed to organize activities. We paid for every craft, organized every meeting, held every meeting at our house, and did all the work. We never knew who was coming to meetings or not (they didn't respond to emails or phone calls very often), so we'd plan for the entire group and then have only one or two show up.

And you know what--after doing this for two years, we said, "Enough," and asked for the other parents to take turns hosting two meetings a year at their house and supplying what was needed. Guess what? The four other kids in that den dropped out of Scouts. I would assume that if their parents were talking, they'd say they had a lousy den leader who didn't want to do anything, but in reality, we felt that we were being used and not appreciated by the other parents.

This is not unique to us, either. My son is in a new den, which my husband is co-leading with another parent, and still, the non-leading parents do not offer to do anything. It's just easier now that DH is not all alone.

I'm not saying that's the situation with you at all, and I'm not saying that your leader is good at all, but I am speaking from some experience with leading a den, and trying to show that there are two sides to every story.

Also, you don't know if the den leader is having some other issues you don't know about. My husband spent 5 days in the hospital at the start of one year, and was still recovering and quite sick for several more months. Scouts was the last thing on his mind, but he didn't share that with the other parents, and did hold a meeting when he could hardly manage it. At least one parent was irritated that we weren't scheduling meetings regularly at that point (she emailed me and called one of the coordinators), but then she never volunteered to hold a few meetings at her house either even after I told her my husband was very sick and couldn't do anything at that point--she just ignored my email.

Please don't take offense at this, and I'm not at all trying to make excuses for a lousy den leader. I would just say that if you are unhappy with the situation, you can certainly volunteer to help out and hold a few meetings at your house. It's really pretty simple to do that; just look at the book for the requirements or electives and do it! Scouting is always short of good volunteers, and I know my sons' pack would welcome any parent stepping forward to help out.

 

[disney6family]

Tam - I agree that you should definitely ask for help from the other parents, but every set of parents is different - in my one den I have parents who would just rather pay for the stuff than be bothered, so now at the beginning of each year we set up a dues schedule and any 'extra' fees we may be expecting like bigger trips, larger projects (especially those for Christmas) and we give the parents the option to pay x $ per month or all at once. This past year I only had 2 parents not want to pay all at once and they did pay monthly and for the Christmas project by the date we had set (Nov 8) - I was surprised how much better this worked than asking for dues each meeting where it was so easy for the parents to forget.
Also, I too had medical problems this year and was on crutches for two weeks and am still in a brace. My parents however are very understanding of these cancellations and if not, then they know they are welcome to hold a meeting (as if ) I have also cancelled for weather (we had horrible snow this past feb - two meetings in a row), and the flu (jan meeting) - which my parents all said they would rather not be at my house when that was going around - can't imagine why However, I always call and leave messages, which this den leader did not feel he needed to do
BTW, roliepolieoliefan, I just noticed you are from Pittsburgh, so I know there should be help available for you - even though we are in Westmoreland Fayette which is probably one council over from you this area has some great scout leaders - the next of which could be you! Go Steelers! Training Camp is now open!

 

[dogluva]

Have you thought about volunteering to help be a den leader for the den you're in? My DH was den leader for my younger son, and became frustrated with other parents who did absolutely nothing--and I mean nothing--to help. They acted as if we were paid babysitters who were supposed to organize activities. We paid for every craft, organized every meeting, held every meeting at our house, and did all the work. We never knew who was coming to meetings or not (they didn't respond to emails or phone calls very often), so we'd plan for the entire group and then have only one or two show up.

And you know what--after doing this for two years, we said, "Enough," and asked for the other parents to take turns hosting two meetings a year at their house and supplying what was needed. Guess what? The four other kids in that den dropped out of Scouts. I would assume that if their parents were talking, they'd say they had a lousy den leader who didn't want to do anything, but in reality, we felt that we were being used and not appreciated by the other parents.

This is not unique to us, either. My son is in a new den, which my husband is co-leading with another parent, and still, the non-leading parents do not offer to do anything. It's just easier now that DH is not all alone.

I'm not saying that's the situation with you at all, and I'm not saying that your leader is good at all, but I am speaking from some experience with leading a den, and trying to show that there are two sides to every story.

Also, you don't know if the den leader is having some other issues you don't know about. My husband spent 5 days in the hospital at the start of one year, and was still recovering and quite sick for several more months. Scouts was the last thing on his mind, but he didn't share that with the other parents, and did hold a meeting when he could hardly manage it. At least one parent was irritated that we weren't scheduling meetings regularly at that point (she emailed me and called one of the coordinators), but then she never volunteered to hold a few meetings at her house either even after I told her my husband was very sick and couldn't do anything at that point--she just ignored my email.

Please don't take offense at this, and I'm not at all trying to make excuses for a lousy den leader. I would just say that if you are unhappy with the situation, you can certainly volunteer to help out and hold a few meetings at your house. It's really pretty simple to do that; just look at the book for the requirements or electives and do it! Scouting is always short of good volunteers, and I know my sons' pack would welcome any parent stepping forward to help out.

I agree. If you think you could do a better job then I say go for it. Instead of calling the leader names, maybe you should just put your time and effort into leading a troop of you own. Then you will see how hard it is and how little thanks you get (but lots of complaints!).

I ran a GS troop for six years. Rarely got a thank you (didn't do it for that) but boy, did I ever have to listen to parents rant and rave over the slightest things. Hello, this is not my job-it is volunteer work. It was very frustrating. I had parents not sign up for events or pay fees but cry when their daughters couldn't go to a fun event. Or people not paying dues and expecting the world. SO many things, I could go on and on.

Eventually, I had to quit when the parents planned to come on an overnight trip and my daughter overheard them planning what booze they would be bringing. I had to wonder why they never wanted to go on trips or help out before this trip. I was beyond resentful and knew I was not longer getting any thing out of Girl Scouting. I loved the girls, but the crap that went with it was not worth it. I felt used and like a babysitter.

So, maybe you should take it upon yourself to become a leader. That is what my husband did. He is very thick skinned which will be a good thing.

 

[happy_redhead]

As a scouting family, (DS9-Webelos, DS7-Wolf, DH and I both leaders), I think scouting is one of the best things out there. My boys both enjoy sports, but scouting is where their heart is. When it comes to needing to choose between a game and scouts, they choose scouts every time. At the beginning of the season, I tell the coach that we are involved in scouting and it comes first. Fortunately, they have all understood. One of the coaches was even an Eagle Scout so he agreed!

Anyway.....in our pack, the Scoutmaster has the final say on the dens and den size. I would contact the Scoutmaster directly and tell him your concerns. If he doesn't seem concerned, it may be best to seek out a new pack. I know in our area, we have many boys who have packs closer than ours, but stay with us because of the way our pack is run. A well run pack has consistency throughout, and all involved recognize the benefit.

Please don't give up.

 

[momsully]

This thread has convinced me to let DS8 try Scouts for one more year. While I am still frustrated with Scouts in general I am looking at it in a new light. If anyone wants to share more info on how Webelos is different I am interested in that as well. DS is a bear right now but I am still curious.

 

[Stimpy]

This thread has convinced me to let DS8 try Scouts for one more year. While I am still frustrated with Scouts in general I am looking at it in a new light. If anyone wants to share more info on how Webelos is different I am interested in that as well. DS is a bear right now but I am still curious.

I'm hope it works out for you and your son! Webelos is getting the boys ready to move up to Boy Scouts. Kind of like the minor leagues moving up to the big time. They have a lot harder and more detailed requirements, more life skills. I'm sure someone can explain it better.

My DS is also going into the Bears this year. As a "leader", I'm a tad nervous myself about the boys all moving up to Webelos. It is more responsibility for them and for us. Heck I was looking at the Program Helps for this year and I was asking "Are you kidding me??!!" almost every page I get very stressed out about it but in the end we get it done, the boys learn & have fun so it's worth it.