So disgusted, just heard Sean Goldman's Brazilian relatives plan to pursue more

[Wall-E1]

I agree with you, and I haven't even posted on this thread before. BTW, I agree with everything you and MaryAnnDVC said.

I feel like my sanity has been restored. Thank You.

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

I agree with you, and I haven't even posted on this thread before. BTW, I agree with everything you and MaryAnnDVC said.

Oh, how I wish I'd hear those words from my kids.

It's all very complicated and will take several days to accurately compute if this was in fact the most bizarre exchange ever on these boards. I have had to shut down the super computer several times, as it began smoking at the bizarreness of the calculations.

I think I saw that on Star Trek one time, with Mudd's women.

 

[NY Disney fan]

Her death actually paved the way to justice.

Like Anna Nicole Smith's death. Dannilyn never would have been raised by her true father had Anna stayed alive. Since Howard K. Stern would have kept daughter and father apart by any means necessary.

 

[Sandy V.]

I feel like my sanity has been restored. Thank You.

Glad to help. I needed a diversion from dealing with two college-aged kids at home on holiday break, who clearly think that I am a bit nuts!!

 

[Sandy V.]

Oh, how I wish I'd hear those words from my kids.

Mine are 22 and 19; I don't think it's going to be heard from my kids any time soon either.

I think I saw that on Star Trek one time, with Mudd's women.

The perfect analogy!!!!

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

Like Anna Nicole Smith's death. Dannilyn never would have been raised by her true father had Anna stayed alive.

That's right...forgot about that case. Hate to say it, because I wouldn't wish death on anyone, but these fathers got "lucky". Sad it came down to that.

Mine are 22 and 19; I don't think it's going to be heard from my kids any time soon either.

My girls are 21 and 19, DS is 16. If only I could be as smart as them.

 

[Sandy V.]

My girls are 21 and 19, DS is 16. If only I could be as smart as them.

If we're lucky, we should start to reacquire some intelligence by the time they reach 25 or so . . . maybe sooner if they're out working in the "real world".

 

[moon]

Elian's mother did not have this opportunity and we will never know her side b/c none of the relatives he ended up living with were on the boat with that woman. Their argument was "clearly this is what she wanted b/c she put him on the dinghy and risked her and his life"--but that wasn't enough to strip his father of his rights as survivor and parent of this boy. Plus, it is said she was the non-custodial parent anyway, so defense of her intent loses points if you will b/c she was not in the power to make such a decision.

There was a lot of speculation on her motives and her wishes. A man who was on the raft but wasn't a relative survived, and said that her last words were "make sure my son reaches the land of freedom" supposedly she said this as she was drowning. Maybe it's just me, but that sounds too corny and convenient to the Miami side. I'd figure she'd just say something like "save my son" or something to that effect if in fact she was even able to talk. The Miami relatives had never even met her, being that they had seen Elian only once when during a vacation to Cuba. By that time the boy's parents had already divorced, so they never met his mom and had no idea what her desires were

Others said that she only got herself and Elian on the raft because her boyfriend (who also drowned) was leaving and she wanted to be with him. Who knows the truth. Regardless, she exposed a child who wasn't even six yet, to extremely dangerous conditions. It's a miracle that he survived, and watching his mother and a bunch of other people drown much have left deep scars. I always felt awful for him, and his dad

 

[Wall-E1]

There was a lot of speculation on her motives and her wishes. A man who was on the raft but wasn't a relative survived, and said that her last words were "make sure my son reaches the land of freedom" supposedly she said this as she was drowning. Maybe it's just me, but that sounds too corny and convenient to the Miami side. I'd figure she'd just say something like "save my son" or something to that effect if in fact she was even able to talk. The Miami relatives had never even met her, being that they had seen Elian only once when during a vacation to Cuba. By that time the boy's parents had already divorced, so they never met his mom and had no idea what her desires were

Others said that she only got herself and Elian on the raft because her boyfriend (who also drowned) was leaving and she wanted to be with him. Who knows the truth. Regardless, she exposed a child who wasn't even six yet, to extremely dangerous conditions. It's a miracle that he survived, and watching his mother and a bunch of other people drown much have left deep scars. I always felt awful for him, and his dad

It comes down to a simple fact that I pointed out last night. If the child has a surviving, responsible parent, they should get custody. It seems like common sense. That's what makes these custody cases so mind boggling. How can these courts deny a valid and responsible parent rights to their own child? These extended families are awful doing what they do.

 

[kimmar067]

legal action??? Just give the kid a break and let him move on with his real father...he was kidnappred by his mom and never should have been kept there in the first place. Sad.

...ITA....leave the kid alone, for corn's sake....

 

[Wall-E1]

for corn's sake....

for corn's sake Where are we, Iowa?

 

[kimmar067]

for corn's sake Where are we, Iowa?

..... sorry, mah 'past-life' verbiage came out....

 

[olena]

...ITA....leave the kid alone, for corn's sake....

Oh, and the corn thing reminded me of the classic 'cans of corn at MK' threads....

 

[CapeMayMommy]

There was a lot of speculation on her motives and her wishes. A man who was on the raft but wasn't a relative survived, and said that her last words were "make sure my son reaches the land of freedom" supposedly she said this as she was drowning. Maybe it's just me, but that sounds too corny and convenient to the Miami side. I'd figure she'd just say something like "save my son" or something to that effect if in fact she was even able to talk. The Miami relatives had never even met her, being that they had seen Elian only once when during a vacation to Cuba. By that time the boy's parents had already divorced, so they never met his mom and had no idea what her desires were

Others said that she only got herself and Elian on the raft because her boyfriend (who also drowned) was leaving and she wanted to be with him. Who knows the truth. Regardless, she exposed a child who wasn't even six yet, to extremely dangerous conditions. It's a miracle that he survived, and watching his mother and a bunch of other people drown much have left deep scars. I always felt awful for him, and his dad

This is what a lot of people didn't really get at that time...

It didn't really matter what the mother's "desires" were. It didn't matter if she was bringing him to "the land of freedom" or "the land of milk and honey" or the "land of beautiful cars and houses".

she was breaking the law and denying her son a relationship with his biological father.

 

[moon]

This is what a lot of people didn't really get at that time...

It didn't really matter what the mother's "desires" were. It didn't matter if she was bringing him to "the land of freedom" or "the land of milk and honey" or the "land of beautiful cars and houses".

she was breaking the law...

Yeah, but you know that the dead are elevated to another status.....The "wishes" of the deceased are sacred, and above the law......

 

[CapeMayMommy]

Actually--they did not do anything with a handover as they had no opportunity to.

They had a lifestyle publicity stunt--but as far as a handover, Janet Reno had Elian taken b/c this family was so uncooperative.

The family did their little stunt by flying up to and driving to the base and expected to get on. Of course they were turned away and were "shocked' that they could not see him. But they had no right to him. They felt their rights were violated, but in turn they had violated Elian's right to be with his father. In 5 months they tried to demonstrate that he preferred living with them, but they were basing that on their own biases of a Fidel Castro Cuba. They then of course spent 5 months letting Elian do anything and everything that is impossible to do in Cuba.

Who knows what Sean's mom told her family. But I'm sure his wealthy family did something similar--showering him with all the things that his American Father could never be able to do.

It seems both families attempted to bribe a child to win favor.

Of course right after he was taken, they took immediately to the ariwaves to pledge their case.

But "we" as a country never took the stance that Brazil did with Sean. Our country never thought it was okay. They gave it some due process. But our country quickly realized that this family had no right to Elian probably due to all that stuff Mickey's Minion posted above. All that infomration makes it all that much more "sense" of why the US handled Elian as they did.

I believe Brazil was giving the Brazilian family more chance to prove their case than really the family ever was entitled and there may be some that argue that is the way it should be done.

But bottom line, mom kidnapped kid, mom died, family had no rights to child.

It's interesting because a lot of Brazilians are feeling sympathy for David Goldman--at least those are the sentiments they are posting on blogs. They also resent the fact that wealth buys you a different set of justice in Brazil.

 

[CapeMayMommy]

Yeah, but you know that the dead are elevated to another status.....The "wishes" of the deceased are sacred, and above the law......

Then, if I am ever (God forbid) declared terminally ill, I will rob a bank for my children's college tuition. It is my desire to have their education entirely paid for.

 

[JoiseyMom]

Does anyone remember the highly-publicized case of Elian Gonzales? His mother "abducted" him from Cuba and was drowned, along with many others, during an attempt to reach the US from Cuba on an overcrowded and unsafe boat. (I'm calling on my memory, here). Elian was rescued and claimed by the extended Cuban-American family of the mother. They showered him with love and provided him with amenities he'd never known. He seemed to be very happy! Then came the legal quest from Elian's Cuban biological father to get him back. This went on for months and months and months. Whatever court ruled that Elian should be given back to his biological father. Most Americans - including myself - were outraged that this boy should have to leave a family that loved him and provided so well for him! The scenes of this boy being torn from the arms of this loving family by authorities were repeated by the worldwide media for days. It really broke our hearts! What I'm saying is that these are two very similar cases, but the loyalties depend on the country. We didn't want Elian Gonzales to be re-united with his biological father, but we were all about Sean Goldman being re-united with his biological father! The "separation" scenes in both cases were media events. We cried and expressed sympathy for Elian's American family when this happened, but we immediately blamed Sean's Brazilian family for doing exactly the same thing! I'm just saying. I'm an American and love my country, but these two cases are very similar, with predictable countries' loyalties being expressed. I'm sure that most Brazilians had sympathy for Sean's Brazilian family, just as most Americans had sympathy for Elian's American family. We've have no formal relations with Cuba since 1962, and it is long overdue! We've had problems with Brazil's visa requirements, and we reciprocate in kind. We're still playing a "nanny nanny boo boo" game with both of these countries. I'm just saying.

They really aren't that similar legally. David Goldman's case was based on the Hague treaty, which Brazil signed, and they should have sent Sean back at the beginning. They did say that the mother was wrong and in violation, but they let her keep him anyway. The only reason David is with his son today is because his ex-wife is dead.

Cuba is not part of the Hague treaty. Our country did the right thing/legally/morally and ethically. This child had a father who wanted him back, and we sent him back where he belonged. It was a shame that we had to use force to do it. And btw..not every American wanted him to stay. I felt he belonged with his father. Another FYI his father provided for him and loved him, loved him more then his AMerican family. More money doesn't make you a better parent. If that was a criterian in American Custody Cases it would get more ugly then it already is!

And most Brazilians thought Sean belonged home with his father.

 

[kimmar067]

Then, if I am ever (God forbid) declared terminally ill, I will rob a bank for my children's college tuition. It is my desire to have their education entirely paid for.

...can ya let me know ahead of time (God forbid) so's ah kin make a hasty withdrawal....or close mah account altogether..... [ ]

 

[JoiseyMom]

I have some compassion for them. This is their grandson. They may never see him again. Would you ignore your dead daughter's wishes and turn your grandchild over to his father if she had gone to such lengths to 'protect' him?
It would take a lot to convince me that my child had lied about the welfare of her child. Just sayin'

I have ZERO compassion for those grandparents. Their dd decided she liked the high rich live she gave up in Brazil and didn't want to be a middle class housewife and teacher in NJ. She used to tell her friends here in NJ about how wonderful her life in Brazil was and how much she enjoyed her vacations there. She could have worked out an arrangement with David, she choose to lie and kidnap her son and keep him from hsi father. She and her family allowed no contact, no calls, no mail..NOTHING...they tried to have her new husband adopt him. They led Sean to believe that his father didn't love him and gave him up..it is abuse and vile and disgusting! Their actions on the last day, by parading Sean through that crowd proved what type of people they are and how little concern they had for Sean's best interest.

David is a saint for allowing his ex mil talk to his son. And he has at least 3 times. David will do the right thing by Sean. I am sure visitation with be supervised, adn that his son will never be alone with them or ever step foot in Brazil again.