Slightly different hight requirement question for those w/ ASD kids

[Gracie09]

Lots of good advice, but as we all know all our kids are different and can react different on different days, so no amount of preparation is full proof. Many of our kids could be 2" over the minimum and still not be able to be measured consistently. Just because Disney does not have an accommodation in place does not mean that it is unreasonable for them to have one in place. If the nature of the accommodation (ride including the line and safety checks) with any regularity fails to allow equal access then any reasonable (not creating an unreasonable financial burden) that maintains safety and is not substantially disruptive to other guests is required by the business. If you are getting a DAS then Disney having the capability to measure your child at the time you receive the DAS and note it on the card would certainly falls into the range of reasonable accommodations, so the OP should ask for this and if it is denied should contact OCR and file a complaint. This does not compromise safety since the CM at the attraction can still monitor that the child is near of above the height requirement and verify from the notation on the DAS. Disability accommodations are not about what is "available" but rather what is reasonable while not creating substantively greater safety risks. I can assure you OCR will give not consideration to the "we do not do that" argument and will base any guidance/enforcement on the facts of the situation. This is a situation that has been an issue for a long time and hopefully someone will formally ask for the accommodation and document the result and if inconsistent with ADA follow up so if can be settled.

Except is is a safety issue. People are generally taller in the morning. If Johnny is just 44 inches in the morning but rides a ride in the evening after "shrinking" down to 43.5 and then gets injured on the ride who is going to be liable- Disney and probably the attractions worker for not confirming with safety standards. Like with the Segway lawsuit Disney has to show there are safety reasons behind their policies. Here it's to insure at the time of riding the person is the correct height for the safety equipment on the rides to work properly.

 

[Gracie09]

Hershey park used to. You were measured when you went in the park and was given a wrist band with different candy names. Reese's was for a certain height and other for other heights. The rides would have a sign on each one with pic of the candies. If your candy was on there you got to ride.

But they will also pull you out to measure if the attractions worker thought you could be too short. It happened to my dd more than once (she was right at the bottom of one)

 

[aaarcher86]

Lots of good advice, but as we all know all our kids are different and can react different on different days, so no amount of preparation is full proof. Many of our kids could be 2" over the minimum and still not be able to be measured consistently. Just because Disney does not have an accommodation in place does not mean that it is unreasonable for them to have one in place. If the nature of the accommodation (ride including the line and safety checks) with any regularity fails to allow equal access then any reasonable (not creating an unreasonable financial burden) that maintains safety and is not substantially disruptive to other guests is required by the business. If you are getting a DAS then Disney having the capability to measure your child at the time you receive the DAS and note it on the card would certainly falls into the range of reasonable accommodations, so the OP should ask for this and if it is denied should contact OCR and file a complaint. This does not compromise safety since the CM at the attraction can still monitor that the child is near of above the height requirement and verify from the notation on the DAS. Disability accommodations are not about what is "available" but rather what is reasonable while not creating substantively greater safety risks. I can assure you OCR will give not consideration to the "we do not do that" argument and will base any guidance/enforcement on the facts of the situation. This is a situation that has been an issue for a long time and hopefully someone will formally ask for the accommodation and document the result and if inconsistent with ADA follow up so if can be settled.

Just because something is ALSO seems reasonable, doesn't means they have to offer it. They could give people with mobility issues wheelchairs for free if they also qualify for a DAS - they don't, and they don't have to. The ADA doesn't require WDW to do anything and everything someone feels is reasonable. And in fact, asking them to alter park operations is UNREASONABLE. The system they've chosen is measuring bars. That's not an unreasonable accommodation and it's done at several other theme parks. There are many methods they can choose from, and someone would have a problem with all of them. WDW wouldn't respond to the complaint with "we don't do that" they'd respond with "the system we have in place is a two tier measuring system (which is all they'd need to say). We took away wristbands and prior measuring in xxx year due to parents removing wristbands and putting them on smaller children." But again, they don't have to explain why. This is the safety measure they've out in place. Saying a child will melt down if they're measured twice and don't meet the height requirement is not, in any way, something that needs to be accommodated separately with an entirely separate system. Trying to say that 'if there is something more they can do, they have to' is entirely inaccurate. They are NOT obligated to do anything reasonable, they simply have to make things accessible by the lowest degree - anything above that is entirely extra.

Honestly, it's so tiring to see when special needs parents expect EVERYTHING to be changed for them. Seriously - totally been there with a small child on the spectrum. My 8 year old is now shorter than her younger sister and is only 44.5". There is a large measure of personal responsibility lacking from your post. The parent needs to accommodate the child sometimes. That's the way it goes. It's honestly becoming insane how instead of expecting a parent to not place they're child in the situation, we're expecting everyone else to figure it out for us. My oldest with special needs just did JTA for the first time this past trip. If there was a chance I thought she'd beat the heck out of the other kids with her light saber or fall on the ground screaming because she wasn't first to fight Darth Vader she wouldn't have done it. Period. This whole 'everyone deserves to do everything' idea is out of control. Sometimes people just can't handle the same stuff. You can't ask a business to alter their fundamental procedures, and the ADA states as much. I know you deal more with education ADA, and there is a lot more that can be done to accommodate you in that aspect. It's not the same with business.

They don't have a system in place for wrist band measuring. The OP wants a wristband to say he's 44"? Okay. Since none of the CMs have any training to accept that wristband, they aren't going to take the OPs word for it that they received it from GR and allow them to go through. They'll measure him anyway. Even if it's on the DAS, they would have no training to believe that's legitimate. I would encourage the OP to file a complaint if she feels her rights have been stepped on, but I'd also just throw out that they may very well tell her she's a nut. I personally prefer saving these things for legitimate concerns instead of bogging down the system.

 

[kaytieeldr]

If the nature of the accommodation (ride including the line and safety checks) with any regularity fails to allow equal access then any reasonable (not creating an unreasonable financial burden) that maintains safety and is not substantially disruptive to other guests is required by the business.

Who gets to quantify "any regularity"? Dozens/hundreds of people of varying heights access heeight-restricted rides daily. Just based on population ratios, many more of these guests are neurotypical. Adding a height measurement to the DAS, needed or not, would give those guests superior - not equal - access. And as virtually all humans shrink a bit as the day progresses, guests on the borderline who made the height in the morning may not later in the day.

 

[acebatonfan]

Lots of good advice, but as we all know all our kids are different and can react different on different days, so no amount of preparation is full proof.

Many of our kids could be 2" over the minimum and still not be able to be measured consistently.

Just because Disney does not have an accommodation in place does not mean that it is unreasonable for them to have one in place.

If the nature of the accommodation (ride including the line and safety checks) with any regularity fails to allow equal access then any reasonable (not creating an unreasonable financial burden) that maintains safety and is not substantially disruptive to other guests is required by the business.

If you are getting a DAS then Disney having the capability to measure your child at the time you receive the DAS and note it on the card would certainly falls into the range of reasonable accommodations, so the OP should ask for this and if it is denied should contact OCR and file a complaint. This does not compromise safety since the CM at the attraction can still monitor that the child is near of above the height requirement and verify from the notation on the DAS.

Disability accommodations are not about what is "available" but rather what is reasonable while not creating substantively greater safety risks.

I can assure you OCR will give not consideration to the "we do not do that" argument and will base any guidance/enforcement on the facts of the situation.

This is a situation that has been an issue for a long time and hopefully someone will formally ask for the accommodation and document the result and if inconsistent with ADA follow up so if can be settled.

Yes, but the ADA's purpose is designed to level the playing field between those with disabilities and the general population. For instance, I am on an insulin pump and would have to avoid rides whose queues were in direct sunlight in order to minimize my risks of my insulin spoiling. Under the ADA, a reasonable accommodation that could be granted by the DAS is the ability to wait the same amount of time outside of the queue; getting front of the line access would not be a reasonable accommodation, as it creates an uneven playing field that favors me more than the general population.

Quite frankly, asking for an accommodation where the height of the child is predetermined is a major safety and liability issue for Disney. We tend to shrink slightly during the day, and, in the event that a tragic ride accident occurs because of the child's height, Disney sets itself up for lawsuits and a boatload of OSHAA violations. Personally, I do not see how having a pre-measured height can level out the playing field for someone with a disability. It is not like the current height-measuring standards (the L-bar) creates an uneven playing field between the general population and the OP's son, as the son is able to be measured using it. The requested accommodations are simply for convenience (it does not affect the child's ability to ride a ride compared to other children at a similar height), and, as previously stated, could open up multiple lawsuits for Disney if something were to occur, and it is identified that the child was too short to ride (even if it was by a half inch).

Training staff to identify that a height written on the DAS (or a band placed on the child's wrist) is legitimate could be considered a financial burden. It is even a greater financial burden once people begin to catch onto this new accommodation, begin to abuse it (such as writing a falsified height on the DAS a few hours after receiving it), and open up more lawsuits for Disney.

To the OP, I highly recommend measuring him yourself right before you leave for Disney. If he is on the border between being too short and being tall enough, it might be a good idea to avoid those rides and prevent being in the situation where you tell your son that you are going to ride a ride, you later learn that he is too short, and he has a meltdown because of it.

 

[sunshinehighway]

I think there are only 3 rides with a 44 inch height requirement. Simply avoiding them to head off a very stressful situation could be the easiest solution.

 

[Lolsmum]

I think there are only 3 rides with a 44 inch height requirement. Simply avoiding them to head off a very stressful situation could be the easiest solution.

That was my thought too. If he's not clearly above the height by then (unlikely), then skip it.

 

[lost*in*cyberspace]

I agree that a simple solution would be to measure your son at home, then make a list of all the rides he is not tall enough for. When you're at the parks, avoid them.

 

[ChloeH]

1) Actually, this is a VERY common occurrence. 2) One CM simply does not measure correctly and one does. 3) Yes, the child gets upset, but rules-is-rules. 4) They either meet the "story pole" height or not.

I agree that either they meet the pole height or they don't. We aren't talking about morning versus night and possible shrinkage. We're talking about the start versus the end of a line.

If a child gets measured at the beginning and they stand the same way at the end, the result should be the same. You can't tell a child that they are tall enough and then ten minutes later say they are too short! If that same child had to measure a line at school he or she would not get away with writing the wrong answer and telling the teacher that people measure differently. There is no reason that Disney cannot have an accurate measuring system in place.

 

[ChloeH]

OP, I totally understand how you feel! I hope it works out for you.

Also just to think about this - if he is barely big enough to be safe in the ride restraints then I would worry about how secure he would be on the ride. I don't ride those so I don't know if the restraints are looser on a very small child. I do know that if my nephew freaked out on a ride he would do anything he could to get out off his seat He has amazing wiggle himself loose ability which is why my sister won't let him ride any of those yet. Obviously alll kids are different.

I wish you good luck with his height, and with the new systems at Disney.

 

[SMD]

I agree that either they meet the pole height or they don't. We aren't talking about morning versus night and possible shrinkage. We're talking about the start versus the end of a line.

If a child gets measured at the beginning and they stand the same way at the end, the result should be the same. You can't tell a child that they are tall enough and then ten minutes later say they are too short! If that same child had to measure a line at school he or she would not get away with writing the wrong answer and telling the teacher that people measure differently. There is no reason that Disney cannot have an accurate measuring system in place.

But kids do sneak into the line, either because the parents found a way to sneak them in or because a CM was distracted by another guest. As the CM at the end of the line, you can't just ignore your responsibility to make sure the rider meets the height requirement by assuming that the CM at the front of the line judged the height correctly.

PP's advice to avoid rides with the 44 inch height requirement is the best way to avoid the possibility of her son injuring himself or someone else. If he does have a meltdown, not only are they not going on that ride, but how will that impact the rest of the day?

 

[bookwormde]

Yes, but the ADA's purpose is designed to level the playing field between those with disabilities and the general population. For instance, I am on an insulin pump and would have to avoid rides whose queues were in direct sunlight in order to minimize my risks of my insulin spoiling. Under the ADA, a reasonable accommodation that could be granted by the DAS is the ability to wait the same amount of time outside of the queue; getting front of the line access would not be a reasonable accommodation, as it creates an uneven playing field that favors me more than the general population.

Quite frankly, asking for an accommodation where the height of the child is predetermined is a major safety and liability issue for Disney. We tend to shrink slightly during the day, and, in the event that a tragic ride accident occurs because of the child's height, Disney sets itself up for lawsuits and a boatload of OSHAA violations. Personally, I do not see how having a pre-measured height can level out the playing field for someone with a disability. It is not like the current height-measuring standards (the L-bar) creates an uneven playing field between the general population and the OP's son, as the son is able to be measured using it. The requested accommodations are simply for convenience (it does not affect the child's ability to ride a ride compared to other children at a similar height), and, as previously stated, could open up multiple lawsuits for Disney if something were to occur, and it is identified that the child was too short to ride (even if it was by a half inch).

Training staff to identify that a height written on the DAS (or a band placed on the child's wrist) is legitimate could be considered a financial burden. It is even a greater financial burden once people begin to catch onto this new accommodation, begin to abuse it (such as writing a falsified height on the DAS a few hours after receiving it), and open up more lawsuits for Disney.

To the OP, I highly recommend measuring him yourself right before you leave for Disney. If he is on the border between being too short and being tall enough, it might be a good idea to avoid those rides and prevent being in the situation where you tell your son that you are going to ride a ride, you later learn that he is too short, and he has a meltdown because of it.

As a point of physiology, adults shrink significantly during the day children typically do not shrink significantly.

The financial burden standards for a company like Disney are so high that in this case with the accommodation as described it is not a factor.

Never talked about using wrist bands, my suggestion was an indicator on DAS

Asking for an alternate accurate measuring system if the current system creates issue with equal access is exactly why the law exists. It is not about special treatment but rather ensuring equal access.

There are lots of ways to ensure the information placed on the DAS can not be compromised and in the end the CM has the final say, the measurement just provides an alternate to re-measuring and the variability that is included in that.

The OPs concerns were clearly not a "convenience" issue

 

[kuhltiffany]

I have an ASD son too, so I know what you're talking about

I'd measure him in his tallest shoes right before you go. If there is any possibility that he may not meet the height requirement, I wouldn't go near those rides to avoid the issue.

Each time we go, I measure my DS, then do one of the customizable, print-at-home maps (available on the Disney website) that ONLY has the rides on it he can do. That's the only map we use with him, keeps us all happy!

 

[kaytieeldr]

It's Cedar fair, and cedar point has held the #1 spot for as far as I can remember for amusement parks in the world.

Not sure where you're getting that ranking. Cedar Point ranks somewhere in the thirties worldwide. It's not even Cedar Fair's top-ranking park. That honor goes to Knott's Berry Farm - at 29 http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_amusement_park_rankings

 

[MaryLovesPoohBear]

We just got home from the pediatricians and w/o shoes right now (50 days out from our trip) he's 43.5 inches. SO depending, he could be right at that cusp where he could meet requirements of 44 inch rides w/ one CM and not w/ another on the same ride.

If it were me, I would tell him now that he is too short. And that he can't ride the rides that say he has to be 44 inches.

Then I would measure him right before you leave.

The one thing I wouldn't do, is to measure him in his tallest shoes. Or first thing in the morning. If you want to measure right before you leave, measure at night, barefoot. That way, you will have the shortest he is. He will only be taller when he puts shoes on.

If he isn't clearly tall enough, without shoes, at night, I would tell him he isn't able to ride those rides.

Don't put him in the position of not being tall enough when he gets to the ride.

 

[Aladora]

Asking for an alternate accurate measuring system if the current system creates issue with equal access is exactly why the law exists. It is not about special treatment but rather ensuring equal access.

Asking for an alternate measuring system for those who use a DAS is special treatment since it is not just children with special needs who have issues with being measured. Just about every child, when faced with a measuring bar will automatically duck beneath it to avoid hitting their head. It is a natural and typical behaviour, not just one that effects non-neurotypical kids. Since this is something that effects both neurotypical and non-neurotypical kids alike, then having an alternate system that benefits one group over the other is in fact a textbook case of special treatment instead of equal access.

The OP asked a question, "does Disney have a system in place where my child can be measured once to verify whether or not he can ride attractions that have a height restriction of 44 inches?"

The answer is no, there is no system in place.

Over and above answering the original question, a number of us have given the OP some advice about how to avoid potential issues. The best piece of advice that I have seen so far is that if your child is close to the minimum height and you want to ensure that they are not turned away is to just avoid those attractions until your child is over the height minimum enough so that you feel there is no debate about whether or not they are tall enough.

 

[SueM in MN]

Measuring and putting a height on the DASmight sound like it would be easy to do and would be a reasonable accommodation.

But, it would require a very large change in practice in a system that is set up for safety. CMs at Guest Relations would need to be trained to measure .
And, many people with children with ASD have mentioned that their children don't like anyone to touch them, don't like the measuring sticks currently used - so there is no guarantee that a child who would have a meltdown if measured
at very attraction would not have a meltdown in Guest Relations.

They would have to come up with a secure way to record it on the DAS and then every CM at every attraction with a height requirement would need to be taught the new procedure. That is not reasonable in my mind at attractions where the height requirement is for safety.

And, as was mentioned by several posters, there are children without ASD or using DAS who also get very upset if turned away at the boarding area because they didn't meet the second height. Many would say it is not fair to just allow that for DAS.

 

[SueM in MN]

I a, closing this thread at this point.