Sister Wives, anyone???

[Carly_Roach]

I was also surprised when they stated their children were free to choose their religion or no religion at all. Odds are though, that since they go to a school with only polygamist families that they will meet someone else who supports that lifestyle.

Yes, but Janelle (wife #2) wasn't raised in polygamy (which I found out I was wrong about) however she chose that lifestyle anyway. So it's conceivable that children raised in polygamy can choose differently. Just ask any person who decided once they left the nest that their parent's religion wasn't for them.

Yep, looks like the Lehi police are prosecuting and the Utah AG really isn't from that article. . interesting.

You know, I think the current bigamy laws rely a lot on fraud as the underlying reason that bigamy is illegal. If you remove that aspect. . .and someone was willing to press it. . .hmm. I mean really, there are two kinds of laws forbidding behaviors in our country: there are things that are illegal because they are wrong, ethically and morally (like theft); and there are things that are illegal for other reasons (like moonshining which is illegal due to the taxes that aren't collected from moonshine).

If you have to keep your nose out of adults' bedrooms, what is the legal justification for outlawing bigamy between consenting adults? The idea that it leads to child marriages and coersion of women isn't a valid argument. Most legal things can lead to illegal things. (A glass of wine can lead to alcoholism. Driving can lead to speeding. Going on the DIS boards can lead to pool hopping. . .)

Hmm. There might be a reason I've always felt at home in New Hampshire too.

Exactly. In this country that was founded on of freedom of religion (and freedom FROM religion), we as a people sure do seem to have a lot of emotional investment in making laws that have more to do with morality than with protecting our citizens. From gay marriage to polygamy, we just can't seem to help ourselves when it comes to keeping our nose out of other people's affairs that have absolutely no impact on us whatsoever.

It's also very interesting that we consider ourselves a "Christian" nation and want to rule by some set of morals, yet our leaders in both Government and any major industry are as corrupt as the day is long. Perhaps if we paid more attention to ethics instead of religious morals, we'd have a better country?

 

[Aristomommy]

Yes, but Janelle (wife #2) wasn't raised in polygamy (which I found out I was wrong about) however she chose that lifestyle anyway. So it's conceivable that children raised in polygamy can choose differently. Just ask any person who decided once they left the nest that their parent's religion wasn't for them.

True, any person can choose a religion different from their parents as they grow up. What I mean though that if my son in the midwest here decided to take 4 wives, he would have a heck of a time finding women who were ever exposed to that lifestyle and wanted that for themselves. In Utah, esp. going to a school with other polygamists and being part of the community, he might find a wife or 2 or 3. KWIM? Not necessarily because every girl in that community will choose the lifestyle, but some will just because it's familiar and what they grew up in.

 

[barkley]

I just recieved this from a good friend of mine who lives in Utah and is a practicing LDS woman. *Bolding mine*

‘Sister Wives' family under investigation following TV debut

A polygamous Lehi family featured on a new TV series that debuted Sunday night has drawn the attention of local police.

Kody Brown and his wives are the subject of a TLC program called "Sister Wives." In a statement released Monday, Lehi police said they are now investigating the family for bigamy, a third-degree felony.

"At the conclusion of the investigation, the evidence will be forwarded to the Utah County Attorney's Office for review and possible prosecution," according to Lehi Police Lt. Darren Paul.

TLC spokeswoman Laurie Goldberg had no comment Monday night on the investigation.

Producers of the show apparently feared the Browns could come under legal scrutiny. They contacted the Utah Attorney General's Office months before airing the program.

"They called us and said, ‘Hey, are you going to shut us down?'" said Scott Troxel, spokesman for the attorney general.

"Sister Wives" premiered Sunday night with an hourlong special, the first installment of a seven-part "docu-series" about Brown and his three (soon-to-be four) wives -- Meri, Janelle and Christine -- and their 13 children. The series began with Brown announcing plans to take on another wife, Robyn, and her three children.

A TLC news release describes the show this way: "From their unconventional family structure and living arrangements to financial challenges, each half-hour episode exposes the inner workings of a polygamist household, revealing the unexpectedly tight-knit and loving relationships between Kody's wives." Also, the show "captures the intense dynamics surrounding a man juggling three wives while attempting to keep it a secret from the outside world."

Troxel said the Utah Attorney General's Office doesn't have the resources to go after polygamists unless it suspects crimes such as child abuse or child trafficking.

"Right now, it's not in our hands, but we're not closing the door," he said.

The Utah County Attorney's Office became aware of "Sister Wives" after receiving several phone calls Monday, said Tim Taylor, chief deputy county attorney.

"Obviously, we can't do anything until we get a case," he said before Lehi issued its statement announcing an investigation. "We haven't seen anything. I don't know if we will see anything."

Taylor said the county occasionally prosecutes people under its bigamy statute, though not necessarily polygamists.

"We'll take a look at any case that comes into our office to see if it has merit," he said.

In 2001, one of Utah's most high-profile polygamists, Tom Green, was convicted in Provo's 4th District Court of bigamy and failure to pay child support. He also was later found guilty of child rape.

Prior to his convictions, Green and his family talked openly about their lifestyle on international and national TV programs, including "The Jerry Springer Show," "Dateline" and "Judge Judy." Prosecutors said they didn't start investigating Green until seeing him on TV.

the tom green case is going to be the key in a successful prosecution. the state was successful in prosecuting him because he was so open about his polygamy and spoke about it in interviews. kody is doing the same thing but i think he's been counting on utah's stance that they won't pursue prosecutions unless there are allegations of fraud and abuses (they even put up that factiod on the screen at the begining of the show).

my understanding is that the way they can prosecute for polygamy is under the bigamy laws-and that's because utah has the concept of common law marriages. therefore-if a man is already legaly married to woman, but then brings another woman/women into the household and holds her/them up to the community as a wife, once a period of time has passed-the subsequents are common law marriages therefore creating bigamy on the man's part.


btw-the big difference between this family and the type of polygamists associated with welfare fraud is the way the household is set up. in this household, despite separate living quarters, it's still one home-with dad living there. with the welfare fraud cases, the key element is making it appear that dad is not in the home (or multiple homes b/c if even one building, housing all the wives/kids can meet the legal definition of separate households for food stamp purposes-the amount received in total will be astronomicaly higher).

 

[disney_mommy]

I found the show entertaining and will continue to watch. I didn't think Kody was creepy, he seemed very happy and kind of "high strung" to me. The other wives all seemed very happy and the kids were all happy and well taken care of.

Just because I don't agree with their views, or even understand them, doesn't make me dislike the show or anyone on it.

 

[ginna74]

if you missed the first show like I did the rerun of the first show is early evening wenesday and late thursday.

 

[CaliforniaDreamin]

I haven't read all the posts -- but my question is about insurance? Does he have medical insurance and then it covers all three wives? and their kids?

what about life insurance? if he dies, do they split the money?

I used to work in payroll and benefits for a Fortune 50 company which has locations in every state, so I don't think Utah would be any different. Policies do, however,vary by employer.

Basically, he can cover a wife or domestic partner. He can cover all his children as long as he can prove paternity.
As far as life insurance, I'm pretty sure you can only have one beneficiary. My guess would be the legal wife. Now, they may have some sort of informal agreement within their household on how to divide any life insurance monies, but that would be out it.

I just watched it online here: http://www.fancast.com/tv/Sister-Wives/140996/1601296282/Meet-Kody-&-The-Wives/videos

It is the only place I could find the full episode and I had no problem viewing it so no worries if you want to watch it now.

Kody gave me the creeps, but I think the hair really added to the creep factor. The wives seemed ok, but you know there will be trouble with Robin because she is beautiful. Logan (the one who made breakfast) does not belong in that family. He is too normal. He's a great kid. Ok, I guess that was mean. I'm sorry.

I think the whole concept is weird, but (PLEASE don't flame me), it must be nice to have so many people love and support you. I would give just about anything for that. (and yes, as my daughter loves to say to me "You aren't depressed, you are feeling sorry for yourself and everyone is sick of it." LOL, telling a message board you are so lonely you can see the benefits of plural marriage is pretty darn pathetic!

 

[DawnM]

I just couldn't watch it. I am so opposed to it that even the commercials make me cringe. I saw them on some morning show and I could barely watch that. I don't know how the interviewer maintained her cool.

Ick, Ick, Ick.

Dawn

 

[tlbwriter]

my understanding is that the way they can prosecute for polygamy is under the bigamy laws-and that's because utah has the concept of common law marriages. therefore-if a man is already legaly married to woman, but then brings another woman/women into the household and holds her/them up to the community as a wife, once a period of time has passed-the subsequents are common law marriages therefore creating bigamy on the man's part.

Aha! Thanks for clearing that up. I didn't understand how they could be charged with bigamy/polygamy since he wasn't legally married to the other women, but I didn't realize that Utah recognizes common law marriages. Although I should have.

 

[tlbwriter]

As far as life insurance, I'm pretty sure you can only have one beneficiary. My guess would be the legal wife.

No, you can have more than one beneficiary. It's generally specified by percentages on your policy, not set amounts (i.e., you might leave 50% to your spouse and 25% to each of your two children). Other benefits, such as social security or employer-sponsored retirement packages, can probably only go to the spouse or one domestic partner.

 

[ginna74]

yeh you can leave your money to whom ever you want. if the family says I want 10% and this wife wants 10% and this wife wants 10% and the kids split the rest then they could do it like that or however they so choose....

 

[CaliforniaDreamin]

No, you can have more than one beneficiary. It's generally specified by percentages on your policy, not set amounts (i.e., you might leave 50% to your spouse and 25% to each of your two children). Other benefits, such as social security or employer-sponsored retirement packages, can probably only go to the spouse or one domestic partner.

Thanks for clearing that up. Maybe I was thinking if you don't list a beneficiary, it defaults to the legal spouse. Heck, I don't know what I'm talking about. LOL

Thanks for the correction though. I hate putting wrong info out there for others.

 

[punkin]

I just couldn't watch it. I am so opposed to it that even the commercials make me cringe. I saw them on some morning show and I could barely watch that. I don't know how the interviewer maintained her cool.

Ick, Ick, Ick.

Dawn

Yeah, that's pretty much my feeling too.

 

[MushyMushy]

I just watched the show this morning. I was really interested in seeing it because Big Love had me very intrigued about the idea of plural marriage. Plus I had a friend who'd been engaged in polyamory.... though with her and two men.

And THAT right there is the problem I have with plural marriage. The guy says at the beginning of the show that love should be multiplied and not divided, yet I don't see any of these polygamous men allowing their wives the same freedom to find more love in their lives. Hypocrisy and double standards.

 

[ElizabethB]

ITA Mushy -- Hypocrisy and double standards -- you got it exactly right!

 

[RC Fan]

And THAT right there is the problem I have with plural marriage. The guy says at the beginning of the show that love should be multiplied and not divided, yet I don't see any of these polygamous men allowing their wives the same freedom to find more love in their lives. Hypocrisy and double standards.

Indeed. Clearly women are not valued the same as men in that lifestyle. It's like turning back the clock on the progress women have made.

 

[Carly_Roach]

Hypocrisy and double standards.

The world is full of hypocrisy and double standards. Look at those who call themselves Christians yet spend their days judging and hating others based on looks and lifestyles. Jesus never taught that.

Then there are those who will lecture on and on about decency and morality, but they'll be the first ones to swipe the $10 bill that some stranger happened to drop, or cheat on their taxes, or tell "little white lies" if they think that being deceitful is "for the common good" when it's really for the liar's own personal validation.

 

[tlbwriter]

The world is full of hypocrisy and double standards. Look at those who call themselves Christians yet spend their days judging and hating others based on looks and lifestyles. Jesus never taught that.

Is it hypocrisy to point out that someone else is a hypocrite, even if you are not a perfect person and exemplary, sinless Christian? I don't think so, but I guess some people disagree.

 

[LiberalPrincess]

Indeed. Clearly women are not valued the same as men in that lifestyle. It's like turning back the clock on the progress women have made.

"Clearly women are not valued the same" by whom? Based on watching the show, I was much more impressed with the wives than the husband. What progress has been turned back? The women are making their own choices, working for a living and raising their families as they choose. No one is forced into anything, and I think the children seemed much better adjusted than on any other show on tv I could name. Particularly as compared to some of the Real Housewives shows where the kids are entitled, spoiled snowflakes.

 

[Carly_Roach]

"Clearly women are not valued the same" by whom? Based on watching the show, I was much more impressed with the wives than the husband. What progress has been turned back? The women are making their own choices, working for a living and raising their families as they choose. No one is forced into anything, and I think the children seemed much better adjusted than on any other show on tv I could name. Particularly as compared to some of the Real Housewives shows where the kids are entitled, spoiled snowflakes.

Agreed. I felt the exact same way about these women as I watched the show Sunday evening. The whole point about women's liberation (as I understand it) was to allow women to have the freedom to make the choices that best suited their lives, not the choices that other women felt they should make.

There are those (including my mother) who feel that I set back the women's rights movement when I catagorize DH's and my particular jobs around the house. I say certain things are "women's" work and certain things are "men's" work. She says women fought for years to get out of the kitchen and here I am putting us back into the kitchen when I say doing dishes or doing laundry is "women's" work.

What she misses, what EVERYONE seems to miss, is that this particular method works best between myself and my husband for whatever reasons that are known to us and us alone. I'm not telling every woman I meet that they should be doing the dishes and/or laundry because that's their work; I'm classifying that particular task for myself and identifying with it as a woman.

And I am glad that, as a child of the 70's and 80's, women fought for my right to decide how I wanted to live my life. Unfortunately, it seems that we still have a long way to go to be able to actually live our lives freely without having to put up with other women telling us how we should live our lives. But I suppose that until we as women actually evolve to the point where we finally realize that how others live their lives has absolutely no impact on our lives unless we allow it to, we'll have to put up with the passing of judgment from others.

 

[barkley]

I used to work in payroll and benefits for a Fortune 50 company which has locations in every state, so I don't think Utah would be any different. Policies do, however,vary by employer.

Basically, he can cover a wife or domestic partner. He can cover all his children as long as he can prove paternity.
As far as life insurance, I'm pretty sure you can only have one beneficiary. My guess would be the legal wife. Now, they may have some sort of informal agreement within their household on how to divide any life insurance monies, but that would be out it.

I just watched it online here: http://www.fancast.com/tv/Sister-Wives/140996/1601296282/Meet-Kody-&-The-Wives/videos

It is the only place I could find the full episode and I had no problem viewing it so no worries if you want to watch it now.

Kody gave me the creeps, but I think the hair really added to the creep factor. The wives seemed ok, but you know there will be trouble with Robin because she is beautiful. Logan (the one who made breakfast) does not belong in that family. He is too normal. He's a great kid. Ok, I guess that was mean. I'm sorry.

I think the whole concept is weird, but (PLEASE don't flame me), it must be nice to have so many people love and support you. I would give just about anything for that. (and yes, as my daughter loves to say to me "You aren't depressed, you are feeling sorry for yourself and everyone is sick of it." LOL, telling a message board you are so lonely you can see the benefits of plural marriage is pretty darn pathetic!

you know, depending on what kind of benefit program an employee is under it could be advantageous (if the wives would buy into it-which i kind of doubt because i believe there is a pecking order in these marriages wherein the first wife is accorded the legal standing with the valid marriage in the eyes of the law) to whom one designates AS their legal wife.

some employee health plans (including my former gov. employers) had it such that a step-parent could provide coverage to their step-kids so long as they were living in the home and claimed on the tax return as dependants. to that end-if one of the wives works in a job with a benefit package like that, and it was cheaper for her to carry all the kiddos (we paid the same for employee coverage no matter if you had 1 kid or 20) it would realy result in a cost savings to make her's the legal marriage.

i'm willing to bet that these (for lack of a better term) "main stream" polygamists are very attuned to how to structure their legal standing in order to best utilize employer sponsored benefit programs without tipping their hands (if they work for an anti pologomy employer). i would suspect they also have legal paperwork in place pertaining to granting guardianship of the children to their sisterwives/non legal standing spouses (in the case of the husband with regard to his children from one wife going to a one of his other wives in the event of the death of both parents).