Sick to my stomach- VENT

[mrsklamc]

"The principal wants to know" is not a valid reason for telling her. I want lots of things I don't get. I was thinking 'typical small town busybody' until I read there are 200 kids in the 4th grade!!! There were 5 kids in my 4th grade class and 100 in my Senior class.

 

[TinaMcTeer]

"The principal wants to know" is not a valid reason for telling her. I want lots of things I don't get. I was thinking 'typical small town busybody' until I read there are 200 kids in the 4th grade!!! There were 5 kids in my 4th grade class and 100 in my Senior class.

I had over 700 people in my graduating class so a class size of 200 is pretty small by my standards. Again I did not tell the principle, Lucy's mom did that. In fact that is how she got our phone number, from the principle.

 

[stitchlovestink]

IMHO
You talked to your daughter, explained what is expected of her and what she should and should not expect from friends...to me, thats the end of it. You did right.....
as far as the others....
getting a school principal involved, and adults all gabbing about it, is wrong.
The school had no business knowing this information..it did not happen there.
By NOTIFYING the school, "talking" about it amongst the parents...(lest I say gossiping) is wrong on more than one level....
To talk about things that allegedly happened, can lead to a very slippery slope (have an umbrella policy to cover possible slander for instance....)

why make this childs life any more difficult than it already is...she apparently has some anger/control issues and lets hope she gets/getting Help....
Id say remove yourself from the situation and move forward away from it....

Well at our old elementary school, if you wanted a locker change like she wants, you would have to give the principal a 'good' explanation as to why whether it happened at school or not... and not just because it needs to be changed. Without that 'good' reason, his answer would be No, sorry we will not be moving your child's locker. So I understand why she did disclose this. And as long as she used the terminology 'allegedly', they are covered. I strongly suspect this family has much bigger fish to fry than a slander lawsuit. They are tremendously hard to prove/win and lawyers don't typically take them on a you only pay if we win case.

OP, I think I would use this as learning experience. Maybe rethink overnight adventures...and also have a talk about what DD should do if she gets into an uncomfortable situation and how she can call you. She may find herself in even more difficult circumstances as she gets older (drinking/drugs). But I probably wouldn't continue to hash it out with her. If she brings it up, obviously, talk about it. But only if she brings it up. I wish you and your DD the best. But hopefully, the worst of this situation is over. Good Luck!

 

[mrsklamc]

I had over 700 people in my graduating class so a class size of 200 is pretty small by my standards. Again I did not tell the principle, Lucy's mom did that. In fact that is how she got our phone number, from the principle.

Perfectly good example of why such information should NOT be shared with this busybody principal.

 

[angwill]

I had over 700 people in my graduating class so a class size of 200 is pretty small by my standards. Again I did not tell the principle, Lucy's mom did that. In fact that is how she got our phone number, from the principle.

Sounds like I would be leary of Lucy's mom in the future. It sounds like if your daughter has a bad day at her house the whole town will know.

The principal giving out another parents information phone number/address and such is a big no no and against the law where I live. No personal info can be given out about any child or their family even if it is just for birthday invitations. A class list of names is the limit. As for the principal needing an excuse they do not need details a simple brief explaination that you feel your daughter is being bullied by the girl should be enough. If pressed for more info I would ask the principal if they are prepared to be held personally responsible if things escallate between the kids and that would have done it. Follow it up in writing and that should do it.

Honestly, I know somtimes it is hard because we wonder what the lingering effects can be but I would try your hardest to stop rehashing this in your mind or with the other parents who might not be willing to stop. As long as you have talked to your daughter about it and she knows if she has any questions about what she saw it is better to not let it upset you or your daughter. We had a similar incident with a boy in school with my son and we simply talked to our son about it and told him it was innapropriate. Listened to his questions and answered them without making a big deal of it. He knows if he ever has questions about that stuff we are open to talking to him. We also notified the boys mother and he was not allowed over at the boys house after that. The problem was solved with no lingering effects and has not been brought up since then and that was years ago.

 

[MrsPete]

This sounds bad, but I think it's important to notice that your daughter 1) wasn't upset enough about it to go to Jane's grandmother and say she wanted to go home; 2) didn't tell you about it herself once she was at home. So it doesn't sound like it upset her all that much.

It sounds like the grandmother's taking care of things from her end. I'd find a reason to say no anytime a play date involving Jane came up.

Other than that, I'd do nothing. You've talked about it with her already. She knows she can come back to you, if she feels the need. Sometimes talking about these things too much just adds credence to what could otherwise have passed over quickly. Don't let it become a big thing.

 

[sk!mom]

Thanks for the replies everyone! I did not tell the school, Lucy's mom did. We live in a very small town and the principle likes to be kept aware of major issues that are happening outside of school so the teachers can keep an eye out and maybe stop a problem before it starts. Jane has had in school suspension probably more times than she has been in class. Last school year she was suspended from school three times for her behavior. I know Jane lives with her grandmother because there is no room for her to live with her mother and her 6 brothers and sisters. She is the oldest so she was the one who was shipped off to grandmas. The school is offering an hour a week for her to see a therapist.

Knowing all of this, it's hard to understand why anyone would allow their child to be alone with Jane.

The principal also seems a bit nosey. I don't think this issue should have been brought to school. Unless the goal was to have them separated as much as possible at school. The parents were the ones who allowed their child to spend time with a child that they knew to be troubled.

I would limit all future contact and spend some time working through scenarios with your DD about how to handle peer pressure situations. Her behavior indicates in this one that she needs lots of help in this area or she wasn't that upset by what happened.

 

[KKB]

And you are a parent. I am ALL about letting children fight their own battles but your daughter is too young to fight & this has gone on too long (and a line was crossed--abuse by Jane, physical, emotional & sexual)
We have a toxic girl in our neighborhood. The girls are in middle school & this year we mothers finally had to say ENOUGH--you cannot be mean to her, but you DO NOT have to spend time with her; they don't want to, sometimes they feel they must include her when kids in the neighborhood hang out.
We came just short of saying they couldn't spend time with her at all...things like a parent must be home & within earshot if she is over. We have talked at length about what she is doing, what is inappropriate, how she hasn't been taught appropriate social skills, etc. First they tried to "save" her, now they are just sick of her (and her helicopter mother), feel sorry for her & simply want to distance themselves from her.
It is important that you give her an "OUT" to save face with the bully & other children. "My mom says I can't play with you." sound honest & direct but having taught elementary school for 20 years, this is the WORST thing you can do. It is fuel for the bully and any that can be influenced by her. She is better to simply always have plans (even if you have to make some!!!) whenever the bully wants to play. "I can't, I have to....go out of town...spend time with my family...clean my room...WHATEVER" I am not saying have your daughter lie--but we had A LOT of extra events on our agenda for awhile until this young lady got the hint!
Recently the bully "invited" herself to a church event the other girls were going to (the bully doesn't even belong to our church) I was ready to call the mom & go off. My very smart DD (who has obviously been listening & digesting all we have talked about) said, "Well, I hope she is going for the right reasons, but I doubt she is." Wow. BUT luckily we have a no extra room in their hotel room for another(well, we WON'T...)
Take care & keep being your child's greatest advocate & protector.

 

[cornflake]

Add me to the list who doesn't understand a number of things here, including why the school is involved.

The principal does sound like a busybody and I'd tell Lucy's mother in no uncertain terms that I didn't appreciate her bringing anything involving other people's kids to the nosy principal and certainly not getting phone numbers the principal shouldn't be giving out. It's inappropriate like 6 different ways.

Agree the porn isn't the deal, theoretically forcing people to watch it and trying to lock them in closets is but... don't get why a kid would want to go over there after she'd chucked them in a stream or the rest of it either so...

Also, 200 kids in a grade is a huge school to me.

 

[StuckInKS]

PERFECT! Exactly my thoughts. Another thought, sleepovers at 9 years old should be with close family friends. If you don't know the parents, I wouldn't allow my child to sleepover. If it's with a group of friends and friend of mine knows the family and assures me they are ok than I may. That's just me...but 9 is still young and you are entrusting your child with a stranger for a sleepover, that just doesn't seem right.

This. Some people are not as careful with your children as you may be and serious things can happen. My aunt is dating a guy whose 8-year-old was killed in a fire last October during a sleepover. The home had a smoke detector, but the batteries had been taken out the week before. This is something that would never happen in our house, just like we'd never let our children ride in a car without a seat belt, but some people are not as careful about things like that. It was NOT a major fire (the home had minimal damage) and everyone should have gotten out with ample warning. I cannot imagine how mad I would be at someone if my child died in a minor fire because they made the decision to use their fire alarm batteries for something else, while the people who made that decision got out safe and sound.

OP - I am not trying to judge you or your parenting decisions. I just know that sometimes it takes a story like this to remind us that very bad things can happen due to the poor judgement of someone else. I hope you DD moves past this quickly.

 

[angierae]

Also, 200 kids in a grade is a huge school to me.

Yeah, that's pretty huge to me, too. My elementary school had two classes of each grade, so there was maybe 60-65 kids in each grade. My senior class had 700 kids, sure, but there were multiple elementary schools that fed into the high school.

 

[melissapealo]

Add me to the list who doesn't understand a number of things here, including why the school is involved.

The principal does sound like a busybody and I'd tell Lucy's mother in no uncertain terms that I didn't appreciate her bringing anything involving other people's kids to the nosy principal and certainly not getting phone numbers the principal shouldn't be giving out. It's inappropriate like 6 different ways.

Agree the porn isn't the deal, theoretically forcing people to watch it and trying to lock them in closets is but... don't get why a kid would want to go over there after she'd chucked them in a stream or the rest of it either so...

Also, 200 kids in a grade is a huge school to me.

There are things I don't understand here either.

The thing that puzzles me the most is how you say Jane locked 2 other girls in the closet and made them watch the adult material however allowed your dd to go when she said she didn't want to see. This doesn't make sense to me. I would think that either a) Jane made your dd watch or b) your dd was a willing participant. I also don't understand your dd wanting to go there if Jane is so mean to her or you allowing her too. If one of my ds friends pushed him in a stream he would no longer be allowed at the friends home. That friend would be at our house so I could supervise what was going on.

I'm sorry but things just don't add up to me. I certainly think Jane's behavior is horrible and she needs professional help. However it seems like there is more to this story.

I would consider a school with 200 children in a grade big too. The school I attended had about 75 in our graduating class. That is what I consider a small school.

 

[Bren's Mom]

We've had issues with Jane over the last few years, pushed DD in a stream on their property in 35 degree weather, yelling at DD when Jane doesn't get her way and pushed DD twice on a school field trip just to name a few. We have always let it be DD decision if she wanted to be friends with this girl and now we are having to put our foot down. They are in the same class and she shares a locker with Jane. I don't want any retaliation from Jane to go towards DD.

I think you put your foot down several incidents too late. If a child behaved like this toward or with my child, I'd never allow my child to go spend the night ALONE with this other child. I think you dropped the ball there and gave your dd WAY to much responsibility to make a decision that at 9 she isn't capable of making.

Be sure that you get your dd's locker changed immediately.

 

[ccgirl]

Knowing all of this, it's hard to understand why anyone would allow their child to be alone with Jane.

The principal also seems a bit nosey. I don't think this issue should have been brought to school. Unless the goal was to have them separated as much as possible at school. The parents were the ones who allowed their child to spend time with a child that they knew to be troubled.

I would limit all future contact and spend some time working through scenarios with your DD about how to handle peer pressure situations. Her behavior indicates in this one that she needs lots of help in this area or she wasn't that upset by what happened.

Add me to the list who doesn't understand a number of things here, including why the school is involved.

The principal does sound like a busybody and I'd tell Lucy's mother in no uncertain terms that I didn't appreciate her bringing anything involving other people's kids to the nosy principal and certainly not getting phone numbers the principal shouldn't be giving out. It's inappropriate like 6 different ways.

Agree the porn isn't the deal, theoretically forcing people to watch it and trying to lock them in closets is but... don't get why a kid would want to go over there after she'd chucked them in a stream or the rest of it either so...

Also, 200 kids in a grade is a huge school to me.

I agree with both of these. My DD's school is tiny. A total of 250 students for the entire school (K-8). The Principal does not get involved in matters outside of school and I like that. SHould it encroach into school then she will absolutely get involved. SHe really is a fan of parents handling their own children outside of school.

I agree that I am perplexed why you would let you child sleep over her home when she is such a disruptive child. There is one child like that in my DD's class. I tell her, you have to be friendly with her but you do not have to be friends with her and, quite frankly, I prefer you would not be friends with her as I do not like the way she acts.

I really hope this is the end of it with Jane and your DD.

 

[sunshinehighway]

Add me to the list of people confused by this story.

How is something that happened outside of school the business of the principal?

Why is you dd sleeping over this girl's house if she's done things to your daughter and is so disruptive?

Was there a school vacation day or something last week? I don't get why there would be three sleepovers during a school week?

 

[JusbKoz]

Just here to give words of encouragement.

I "kinda" know what you are going through right know and you as a mother are second guessing your actions because all you want to do is protect your child.

I had a very bad experience that happened to my 4 yr old. I was so torn up and regretted my decisions that I was more emotionally affected by the incident than my child.

This is my advice.....what ever you do let your daughter know who is at fault here.....make sure she knows she did nothing wrong and tell her you appreciate her telling you the truth after you asked her what went on at the sleep over when you asked. Kids this age are afraid of saying things to adults because they are afraid they will get in trouble. So just reassure her that in cases like this she will never get in trouble when she comes to talk to you.

Second, take it easy on yourself.....would of, could of, should of.......is always easy to answer after the incident.

The only thing I would do like most people has suggested is to move your daughters locker and no more sleep overs. This lets your daughter know it not okay for her peers to treat her like this and also it will let "Jane" know it's not okay to "bully" her friends.

 

[Leajess99]

Add me to the list who doesn't understand a number of things here, including why the school is involved.

The principal does sound like a busybody and I'd tell Lucy's mother in no uncertain terms that I didn't appreciate her bringing anything involving other people's kids to the nosy principal and certainly not getting phone numbers the principal shouldn't be giving out. It's inappropriate like 6 different ways.

Agree the porn isn't the deal, theoretically forcing people to watch it and trying to lock them in closets is but... don't get why a kid would want to go over there after she'd chucked them in a stream or the rest of it either so...

Also, 200 kids in a grade is a huge school to me.

I agree. As for the 200 kids in a grade, that is even big for my youngest's school. There are approximately 100 kids in the 3rd grade at her school. Even her old school never had more than 150 kids in one grade level.

 

[TinaMcTeer]

I agree. As for the 200 kids in a grade, that is even big for my youngest's school. There are approximately 100 kids in the 3rd grade at her school. Even her old school never had more than 150 kids in one grade level.

Sorry I should have also stated that her school only houses upper elementary school. So in Whitehall it services all of the 3-5 grades. So while it seems to some like it is a lot of kids in her grade, this is the only school that she could go to in our area. Whitehall has less than a 3000 population. So it is a small town.

Thanks for all of the replies. I appreciate the words of encouragement. I know that I have done all that I can I this situation. DD9 has had her locker moved and has handled herself well with Jane at school. So far so good!