Sick of being Vilified!!!

[DisneyBamaFan]

...What would happen if there were not enough teachers to educate the public's children for free? You want to talk about angry folks?

Free? The government doesn't just print the monet to pay the teachers. They collect the money from me and you. It is far from "free"...

There is a shortage of teachers in some states, and a surplus in others. Red states see shortages, blue see surpluses.

 

[mjkacmom]

Maybe some don't understand what is going on in NJ. Our teachers are well compensated. Our new governer, who publically denounced the NJEA, cut ONE BILLION dollars of funding for education. This isn't something that adding a few more kids to each class is going to fix - this is a huge crisis. Our property taxes are the highest in the nation as it is. Where I live, schools are close to 100 years old, and are pretty much duct-taped together. Therefore, when our board of education voted to give our teachers' raises, people here were stunned (the majority of the board has family members who are teachers, or had been teachers - but not as of last night, when new school board members were elected).

 

[daughtersrus]

Teachers here don't pay into their health insurance.

I don't believe that is the norm. There have been several other threads on this topic and many teachers have posted that they do pay for their insurance.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

Maybe some don't understand what is going on in NJ. Our teachers are well compensated. Our new governer, who publically denounced the NJEA, cut ONE BILLION dollars of funding for education. This isn't something that adding a few more kids to each class is going to fix - this is a huge crisis. Our property taxes are the highest in the nation as it is. Where I live, schools are close to 100 years old, and are pretty much duct-taped together. Therefore, when our board of education voted to give our teachers' raises, people here were stunned (the majority of the board has family members who are teachers, or had been teachers - but not as of last night, when new school board members were elected).

We voted on the new budget yesterday. I hope that it passes (even though it means a few staff cuts). Why? Because if it doesn't, the council can do whatever they want. Scary stuff...

 

[eliza61]

I live in NJ and I completely agree with this post. In my opinion this entire thing was badly handled by the union, and the unions have not helped the teacher/taxpayer relations at all. In the past when there have been contract negotiations/disputes the union has had the teachers do things like refuse to write college recommendations for students, etc. because it is not specifically in their contract. This is not "professional", imo.

You need to talk to your teachers because that is definitely in no way in a contract. My oldest kid is a proud graduate of Timber Creek H.S. Gloucester Township, NJ.
He received a total of17 letters of recommendations in 2009 from every last teacher he had from freshman to Senior year.

He is the normal, the H.S. sends out announcements beginning September of the kids senior year, reminding seniors to start requesting letters as soon as possible from their teachers.
The PTA of our H.S. has fundraisers every year to cover postage and stationary so no teacher is coming out of pocket.
My 16 year old got letters of recommendations for summer jobs this year and every teacher he asked gave him permission to use them for a character reference.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

I don't understand people who moan and complain about money for teachers, fire, police. I just can't think of anywhere better to put funds.

Thank you!
People complain about the 3 most important jobs out there but you don't hear them muttering about the salaries of the administrations quite so much huh? I personally like to know that my children will get a quality education and not just any old person who decided to teach. That is why we pay our teachers as much as we do here. We get to chose who we want. Offer terrible pay and the hiring pool gets smaller.
The same with fire and police. I know that I like being able to call them in an emergency and knowing that they will come! People also forget that they put their LIVES on the line everytime they put their uniforms on. Sorry but they should be compensated for that. It is not a job for everyone.

 

[allison443]

You need to talk to your teachers because that is definitely in no way in a contract. My oldest kid is a proud graduate of Timber Creek H.S. Gloucester Township, NJ.
He received a total of17 letters of recommendations in 2009 from every last teacher he had from freshman to Senior year.

My 16 year old got letters of recommendations for summer jobs this year and every teacher he asked gave him permission to use them for a character reference.

Yes, normally the teachers are happy to write recommendations for the kids but the union, as a negotiating tactic or a way to put pressure on the negotiations, only had the teachers "work to the contract". That means nothing extra like writing recommendations, decorating bulletin boards was another thing the union told the teachers not to do during this period. This directive was from the union to its members, NOT something the teachers themselves instituted.
I only mentioned it because to me this was a tactic used by the union leadership that did not help their members.

 

[eliza61]

Thank you!
People complain about the 3 most important jobs out there but you don't hear them muttering about the salaries of the administrations quite so much huh? I personally like to know that my children will get a quality education and not just any old person who decided to teach. That is why we pay our teachers as much as we do here. We get to chose who we want. Offer terrible pay and the hiring pool gets smaller.
The same with fire and police. I know that I like being able to call them in an emergency and knowing that they will come! People also forget that they put their LIVES on the line everytime they put their uniforms on. Sorry but they should be compensated for that. It is not a job for everyone.

Usually what happens is that you get a lot of people who take the job just to have a job and not only are the lousy teachers, they usually leave within 3 years because they will not put up with the crap that teachers have to deal with for that lousy pay.
Especially in Urban areas, turnover is horrible.

 

[java]

I think it is so very clear. The no votes all across the state are sending the signal- CONSOLIDATE! I have a district with 421 students k-8 there is a superintendant, 2 principals and 7 secretaries. Really? Really? The super works 240 days a year and gets 45 PAID days off. Who else in the country gets this?

It's administation costs that have gotten out of control in our state.

 

[DawnCt1]

Free? The government doesn't just print the monet to pay the teachers. They collect the money from me and you. It is far from "free"...

And that is the perception that doesn't put the brakes on spending.

 

[Toad_Passenger]

Do you mind sharing where this is? Is this for 1st year teachers or for those that have a MA+ and have been teaching for 20 years?

Sorry for the delayed response, I went to lunch.

This is in Southeastern, PA. Bucks County to be specific. And it is not just those with 20+ years. I'm sure these are Master's holders, but nowadays getting your masters can be done from your own house on the weekends, and, in Pennsylvania, also reimbursed by public funds.

Here are some examples:

$97,236/year (10 years exp.)
$73,239/year (5 years exp.)
$53,626/year (2 years - Elementary)
$57,941/year (1 year) - Basically a starting salary for this area.

In our neighboring County, Montgomery County, PA:

$103,480/year (15 years exp. - Elementary 1-3)
$96,991/year (12 years exp.)
$93,500/year (9 years exp.)
$82,455/year (13 years exp.) --- This teacher is teaching in a District that is currently on Strike, as well.

But what bothers me most is the way the Union hides salary increases through the "step" program. No matter what a teacher will still get a yearly raise, just for terms of service. Looking in the paper regarding the current District on strike (noted above), the contract breakdown shows some yearly "step" raises of 11%-12%. Seriously, in the face of the current economic climate, who is not going to get upset seeing someone striking over the possibility of an 11% raise they will AUTOMATICALLY get at some point in their career.

Again, I love the work that teachers do, but the system is no longer working the way it should, and I do put the blame on the Unions and the way they pit Districts against each other to further their agendas.

 

[DawnCt1]

Sorry for the delayed response, I went to lunch.

This is in Southeastern, PA. Bucks County to be specific. And it is not just those with 20+ years. I'm sure these are Master's holders, but nowadays getting your masters can be done from your own house on the weekends, and, in Pennsylvania, also reimbursed by public funds.

Here are some examples:

$97,236/year (10 years exp.)
$73,239/year (5 years exp.)
$53,626/year (2 years - Elementary)
$57,941/year (1 year) - Basically a starting salary for this area.

In our neighboring County, Montgomery County, PA:

$103,480/year (15 years exp. - Elementary 1-3)
$96,991/year (12 years exp.)
$93,500/year (9 years exp.)
$82,455/year (13 years exp.) --- This teacher is teaching in a District that is currently on Strike, as well.

But what bothers me most is the way the Union hides salary increases through the "step" program. No matter what a teacher will still get a yearly raise, just for terms of service. Looking in the paper regarding the current District on strike (noted above), the contract breakdown shows some yearly "step" raises of 11%-12%. Seriously, in the face of the current economic climate, who is not going to get upset seeing someone striking over the possibility of an 11% raise they will AUTOMATICALLY get at some point in their career.

Again, I love the work that teachers do, but the system is no longer working the way it should, and I do put the blame on the Unions and the way they pit Districts against each other to further their agendas.

And if your state is like Ct., after X number of years, they can retire with a figure very close to their last year's salary.

 

[Toad_Passenger]

Yes, normally the teachers are happy to write recommendations for the kids but the union, as a negotiating tactic or a way to put pressure on the negotiations, only had the teachers "work to the contract". That means nothing extra like writing recommendations, decorating bulletin boards was another thing the union told the teachers not to do during this period. This directive was from the union to its members, NOT something the teachers themselves instituted.
I only mentioned it because to me this was a tactic used by the union leadership that did not help their members.

Pennsylvania is like the King of all Strike States. I have seen this tactic in neighboring Districts, as well. The Union will prohibit the teachers from writing recommendations, staying after hours to help students, sponsoring events, etc. It's very sad, since the Teachers usually WANT to do these things, and it only hurts the true customers of Public Education, the children.

 

[Toad_Passenger]

And if your state is like Ct., after X number of years, they can retire with a figure very close to their last year's salary.

Actually in Pennsylvania, the retirement fund is funded by the taxpayers, as well. After the teacher retires, I believe they will receive somewhere around 80% of their Final Salary for the rest of their life(?).

That's not the only thing. The current fund for teacher retirement is grossly underfunded now due to the collapse of the global markets/economy. So, the State decided to "call" for all of the payments into the fund that the Districts were legally allowed to defer during the good economy. Because of this, some Districts are now short hundreds of thousands of dollars, and this HAS to be repaid ASAP to support the retired teachers. Guess what that means? Yep, more tax hikes to fund the teachers for something that the State and the Union allowed to happen.

 

[jazzielady]

ITA with you on this. Everyone I know loves the teachers in our district, but when contract time comes up, it isn't usually the teachers doing the talking. The State Union representatives come in and start whispering in their ears, and that's when things get bad. The Unions have a political agenda to push, make no mistake about it. The Union also protects teachers who are not doing their job. Certainly a majority of teachers put forth 150%, stay overtime, and help the kids out, but there are plenty who don't do that, and they are basically stealing the taxpayers' money every contract cycle.

Add to that the fact that the Union is allowed to Strike and hold students/communities hostage until they get their way, just makes for a bad situation. Where I live, the teachers' salaries have approached, and surpassed 100,000/year in Districts where taxes are already high, and rates of unemployment are skyrocketing. Five years from now, regardless of the economic climate, the State Union will once again be there to make sure that number gets even bigger, and the question is, when will it end?

It has nothing to do with being unappreciative towards the teachers, but to the taxpayers they see the Politics behind the Union driving the wages.

As a PA teacher (now retired on disability) who belongs to a union, there is NO state Union. Most school teachers are members of the NEA, but there are a number of members of the AFT. These are NATIONAL teachers unions, in the states that allow them.

 

[mjkacmom]

What would happen if I posted:

I've been working for the same company for years, and have always gotten a raise. Well, the company is in huge financial trouble, and in order to keep the staff we have, and not fire anyone, they've suggested a salary freeze. I work hard, and deserve a raise, even though that means 38 positions will be eliminated, right? Just because there's no money for my raise, it doesn't matter, because I work hard.

 

[Toad_Passenger]

As a PA teacher (now retired on disability) who belongs to a union, there is NO state Union. Most school teachers are members of the NEA, but there are a number of members of the AFT. These are NATIONAL teachers unions, in the states that allow them.

However there is the PSEA which is the state affiliate of the NEA, and does the National Unions work inside the Commonwealth.

 

[npmommie]

Pennsylvania is like the King of all Strike States. I have seen this tactic in neighboring Districts, as well. The Union will prohibit the teachers from writing recommendations, staying after hours to help students, sponsoring events, etc. It's very sad, since the Teachers usually WANT to do these things, and it only hurts the true customers of Public Education, the children.

unless it is written in their contract how does the union prohibit a teacher from doing these things?
I understand unions and the negotiating, but if a teacher really wants to help a student they will and they can.
I think its things like this that sour the public on teacher's unions.

 

[jazzielady]

Actually in Pennsylvania, the retirement fund is funded by the taxpayers, as well. After the teacher retires, I believe they will receive somewhere around 80% of their Final Salary for the rest of their life(?).

That's not the only thing. The current fund for teacher retirement is grossly underfunded now due to the collapse of the global markets/economy. So, the State decided to "call" for all of the payments into the fund that the Districts were legally allowed to defer during the good economy. Because of this, some Districts are now short hundreds of thousands of dollars, and this HAS to be repaid ASAP to support the retired teachers. Guess what that means? Yep, more tax hikes to fund the teachers for something that the State and the Union allowed to happen.

In PA, PSERS is funded by the employees along with intelligent investments on their part.

 

[npmommie]

What would happen if I posted:

I've been working for the same company for years, and have always gotten a raise. Well, the company is in huge financial trouble, and in order to keep the staff we have, and not fire anyone, they've suggested a salary freeze. I work hard, and deserve a raise, even though that means 38 positions will be eliminated, right? Just because there's no money for my raise, it doesn't matter, because I work hard.

You would be told to take one for the team, to suck it up because lots of workers are not getting raises