Sick of being Vilified!!!

[rgf207]

I also don't buy the "quality education" argument either. Does that mean that under the last contract the teachers were delivering "sub-quality" education, since they weren't getting paid what they want out of this contract? Or, if they have to settle at less than what they want, will they suddenly be offering inferior education as well? I'm not sure why what was good last year, suddenly isn't good this year. Especially when, Nationally, most market indicators show the cost of living has gone down.

I wouldn't say that but what people mean by "quality education" is that teachers who constantly are underpaid will end up leaving education and venture into the private sector where they can sometimes double their salary. By giving teachers more, they can keep them at their position. You get what you pay for. Many people want the best possible education for their kids, and rightfully so, but don't want to pay for it

 

[Toad_Passenger]

I wouldn't say that but what people mean by "quality education" is that teachers who constantly are underpaid will end up leaving education and venture into the private sector where they can sometimes double their salary. By giving teachers more, they can keep them at their position. You get what you pay for. Many people want the best possible education for their kids, and rightfully so, but don't want to pay for it

It's funny though, because some of our more rural Districts obviously cannot pay on the scale of the "richer" areas. So the question, again, becomes are they not getting the same quality of education? They still seem to graduate a lot of students, and, percentage-wise, still send about the same to top Universities. I'm just not convinced, especially with the lack of teaching jobs in our State (or any jobs for that matter right now!), that people will just "jump ship" after investing several years in a District.

 

[DawnCt1]

I wouldn't say that but what people mean by "quality education" is that teachers who constantly are underpaid will end up leaving education and venture into the private sector where they can sometimes double their salary. By giving teachers more, they can keep them at their position. You get what you pay for. Many people want the best possible education for their kids, and rightfully so, but don't want to pay for it

In our state at least, there are far more applicants than there are positions. The evidence suggests that teachers are NOT fleeing the public sector to go to the private sector because there are not enough private sector jobs. With tenure, it is also seems evident to me that we don't always get what we pay for. From the time I was a student, through the public education experience of my kids, the best teachers were not always the ones retained but the ones with 'longeivity'. Paying more does not always mean the best education.

 

[daughtersrus]

That would be fine to discuss if teachers were required to live where they work, but they don't. There are plenty of teachers who do NOT live in their District, or even within their County for that matter. But that's neither here, nor there, since a lot of us work in a different place than we live.

Some school districts do require teachers to live in their district. CPS comes to mind.

 

[SusanWasHere]

Wow, those PA salaries are something! I'm a teacher in Mercer County NJ (which is considered "high pay") and have been teaching 16 years and make less than what the PA teachers at 5 years make! And our benefits are not "free". We pay very high deductibles. And being single - I never ever reach the thousands of dollars of deduct. required so I am always paying. And as for the "4% raise we all get", that is not true. It's a 4% increase of the whole salary "pot". That 4% is spread out amongst however many hundreds of teachers there are. Some people get more, some people get less, some people get close to nothing. And with the 100 hours we have to do by NJ state law - many districts don't pay for those anymore. Workshops can be as cheap as $50, and up to $500. We no longer get money for lodging or meals. Especially being someone in a very specialized field, if I want to go to a very good workshop on autism over a weekend out of state, it may cost me over $1000 that I don't get back. And they often will only amount to 1/10 of the continuing education I need. Throw on top of that the materials I have to buy. I get $150 a year in supplies for my class. To include everything - paper, crayons, pencils, scissors. I teach autistic K-1, so I need a lot of stuff. I've been teaching 16 years and make in the mid $60s. I work summers bc I can't afford not to and don't get paid in the summer if I don't work. I feel like a lot of non-teachers don't actually know what goes on. We make no decisions as to where money is spent, what materials are bought, what garbage money is spent on. That's all decided by people making well into the 6 figures. It takes 10 of them to decide on a spelling book! And it takes them 5 months to do it. So teachers are getting a lot of backlash that we don't deserve. It's easy to read the papers, hear the propaganda, and make assumptions. I'd be more than happy to let people really see what goes on. Teachers are so not the problem - it's the admin and everyone NOT IN the classroom.

 

[princessmom29]

You can count me as one teacher who would rather save teachers than get a raise. When teachers are cut from a school, it effects every tacher at that school. We already have 40 in a class and I don't want to see it pushed any farther than that. It is not fair to the kids, and they are just not getting what they need in a class that size. There is only one of me to go around. There really are those of us out there that care about the students we are educating, and that is really what it is all about isn't it? Getting the kids the best education possible with the money that can be spent. Not al lteachers are out to get more money at the expense of the students. I think that step raises SHOULD be suspended if that is the only way to save teacher jobs, but I think that districts should be trimming the fat elsewhere first. We spend WAY too much money as a district on teacher professional development. Not that it is not a good thing to do, but that department absolutely bleeds money. They spend a of money flying in presenters and consultants and housing them when they are here to send us to traing after training on the same material, rather than actually developing and presenting programs themselves. Administration on the district level is another area spending has gotten out of control. You could pay 4 teachers for what one district supervisor makes.

 

[tinkerdorabelle]

I'm a little taken back by the bad spelling from a couple of the teachers that posted on here. Agianst was one word used (this was done twice so I don't believe is a typo), sallary another.

 

[mom2boys77]

Well said. I completely agree.

You were very brave posting this but you are exactly right. New Jersey is the "canary in the mine". The rest of the states will follow. Public employees as a whole make more than those in the private sector in terms of benefits, retirement, etc and yet without the private sector, those jobs can't exist. Ct. is facing unfunded mandates, underfunded pension plans and the answer in Hartford? Increase the taxes. New Jersey has lost of lot of those "evil rich people" who decided that they can move and not pay those tax hikes. What happens when all of those "evil rich people" move to a more business and tax friendly state? Those in the private sector are tired of being squeezed to fund those who work in jobs with guaranteed pay raises while their salaries are being cut and their jobs are being lost.

 

[mom2boys77]

I was wondering if it was just me that noticed. Bad spelling, especially from a teacher, is a huge pet peeve of mine. Kinda reminds me of when my son was in 4th grade and the teacher sent home a note complaining about his handwriting, well guess what..hers was awful! That bugs me.

I'm a little taken back by the bad spelling from a couple of the teachers that posted on here. Agianst was one word used (this was done twice so I don't believe is a typo), sallary another.

 

[princessmom29]

I'm a little taken back by the bad spelling from a couple of the teachers that posted on here. Agianst was one word used (this was done twice so I don't believe is a typo), sallary another.

I really, really don't want to get into this debate agian. I have a disability that makes it hard to type/ write correct spellings and I don't use spell check because it is a pain on these baords. Why does everyone feel like it is ok to point fingers at teachers who don't type with absolutely perfect spelling and grammar at all times? This is a message board for heavens sake! I teach science, not English so my diability doesn't effect my job. By the time they get to my class as juniors and seniors they just correct me and move on evetyone knows about my disability and my students are very accepting of it. I wish more people were.

 

[luvsJack]

You can count me as one teacher who would rather save teachers than get a raise. When teachers are cut from a school, it effects every tacher at that school. We already have 40 in a class and I don't want to see it pushed any farther than that. It is not fair to the kids, and they are just not getting what they need in a class that size. There is only one of me to go around. There really are those of us out there that care about the students we are educating, and that is really what it is all about isn't it? Getting the kids the best education possible with the money that can be spent. Not al lteachers are out to get more money at the expense of the students. I think that step raises SHOULD be suspended if that is the only way to save teacher jobs, but I think that districts should be trimming the fat elsewhere first. We spend WAY too much money as a district on teacher professional development. Not that it is not a good thing to do, but that department absolutely bleeds money. They spend a of money flying in presenters and consultants and housing them when they are here to send us to traing after training on the same material, rather than actually developing and presenting programs themselves. Administration on the district level is another area spending has gotten out of control. You could pay 4 teachers for what one district supervisor makes.

ITA. Our state is doing some major budget cutting in education from the university level down. Different districts are doing different things, but at least two locally are cutting salaries at the district office rather than having to lose teachers.

I cannot imagine walking into a classroom and seeing almost twice the number of students as they have now! There is absolutely no way a teacher could do his/her job with that number of students. It is just such a scary thought. And then to tell the teachers that their students have to make the score on state tests--it would just be impossible.

 

[princessmom29]

I was wondering if it was just me that noticed. Bad spelling, especially from a teacher, is a huge pet peeve of mine. Kinda reminds me of when my son was in 4th grade and the teacher sent home a note complaining about his handwriting, well guess what..hers was awful! That bugs me.

Teachers are NOT perfect. Their job is to teach children. It is amazing to me how many parents expect prefection from teachers at all times. Teachers are people too, and everyone has shortcomings. My ahndwriting is not the best either, but I am a darn good chemistry/physics teacher. Which is more important??

 

[mom2boys77]

Nobody is perfect obviously but if you are going to teach my child handwriting, you better at least have decent handwriting yourself. Same goes for spelling and grammar from an English teacher.

Teachers are NOT perfect. Their job is to teach children. It is amazing to me how many parents expect prefection from teachers at all times. Teachers are people too, and everyone has shortcomings. My ahndwriting is not the best either, but I am a darn good chemistry/physics teacher. Which is more important??

 

[daughtersrus]

I was wondering if it was just me that noticed. Bad spelling, especially from a teacher, is a huge pet peeve of mine. Kinda reminds me of when my son was in 4th grade and the teacher sent home a note complaining about his handwriting, well guess what..hers was awful! That bugs me.

I was hoping that the debate wouldn't turn to spelling but since it has, kinda isn't a word.

 

[mom2boys77]

Well thank goodness I'm not a teacher

I was hoping that the debate wouldn't turn to spelling but since it has, kinda isn't a word.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I'm a little taken back by the bad spelling from a couple of the teachers that posted on here. Agianst was one word used (this was done twice so I don't believe is a typo), sallary another.

I make that typo often...double letter, transposed letters and homonyms are my biggies.

Also....I'm right handed, so that is my dominate hand and sometimes it gets a little more speedy than my left hand and letters such as an "a" and an "i" will get transposed b/c my right hand won the race. ("a" is typed with the left pinky and "i" is typed with the right middle finger. I can thank my typing teacher for teaching the proper way to type...but sometimes I am too fast for my own good. lol!)

And if you've resorted to being the "typo/grammar/spelling" police--chances are, you've run out of anything valid to contribute to the debate.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I was wondering if it was just me that noticed. Bad spelling, especially from a teacher, is a huge pet peeve of mine. Kinda reminds me of when my son was in 4th grade and the teacher sent home a note complaining about his handwriting, well guess what..hers was awful! That bugs me.

I'm not sure why that disqualifies her to teach handwriting.

Unless he is using her handwriting as the model of how to form letters--in the context of a workbook lesson where most letter formation is taught and practiced. I have sucky handwriting....but I can teach it to my child. I can blame my teachers for my sucky handwriting though. Theirs was quite beautiful. Mine, not so much. So my child learns from a workbook to improve it.

But so easy to nitpick when one gets bad news they don't want to hear.

 

[disney_fan1972]

I think this is partly the fault of the teachers unions. "professionals" don't have unions, labor does. Teachers exist in this odd limbo where they want union benefits and contracts like labor but treated as professionals. As long as teacher unions exist, they will be treated as "labor".

And even though teachers get villified, I don't think it's teachers per se, but the union and the ridiculous contracts.

If OP wants to lay blame, start with her union rep.

This whole union thing is still new to me, I didn't have one in corporate, why would I? That said, I don't know that I need it... but I am required to be a member (If I want to teach in a NJ public school anyway). I think you have a good point, unions are typically viewed as blue collar barganing groups. I never had anyone negotiate on my behalf before and didn't have a contract.

... I don't want to lay blame on anyone, I just don't want people who have not experienced teaching to sling mud my way

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

... I don't want to lay blame on anyone, I just don't want people who have not experienced teaching to sling mud my way

But that is going to happen whether it is justified or not. You are paid with tax dollars and tax payers have the right to not be happy with something.

As for your facebook...grrr..it's tough to have "friends" who have very different ideas than you. Since you are in a tax payer position--it probably makes that even more difficult.

 

[gina2000]

What would happen if I posted:

I've been working for the same company for years, and have always gotten a raise. Well, the company is in huge financial trouble, and in order to keep the staff we have, and not fire anyone, they've suggested a salary freeze. I work hard, and deserve a raise, even though that means 38 positions will be eliminated, right? Just because there's no money for my raise, it doesn't matter, because I work hard.

I have to comment on this because my district told the teachers outright that if they agreed to the freeze, the district would not reinstate teachers. Instead, they would reinstate freshman sports and security in the schools.

I think most teachers would take the freeze in a heartbeat if they knew that the assets would be used to save jobs. Well, that was the response given....and it was truly disheartening.

I made more money my first couple of years on Wall Street 25 years ago than I do now. I also pay megabenefits (try $1400/mo) because my district will not cover family until I teach for the magic 3 years. If the state imposes another 1 1/2% in benefit payment for my share, I could potentially be paying more in benefits than I take home.


Oh, and I have to say this because it drives me nuts everytime Christie says that no superintendent should earn more than the Secretary of Education. Government posts at the state level earn little more than token payments. Officials serve their time and then head back to an even more lucrative private sector job than the one they left before they chose to serve. No one ever took the job for the money. They take the job for the prestige and the connections.