Sick of being Vilified!!!

[disney_fan1972]

I understand this completely. But what about the fact that teachers went to school to train to become teachers so they could work for those salaries and benefits? Teaching jobs aren't just given to people. They have to go to school and earn that privilege. It's almost like private sector employees are mad at government employees for being government employees.

It's bad out there for everyone. But I think the OP is just tired of being hated just because she chose to become qualified to be a teacher so she could work for the benefits that so many people are resentful that she has.[/QUOTE]

Stashbin, you hit the nail on the head... and thanks so much for being a voice here while I was in class. I posted while I was at lunch earlier and this is my first opportunity to come back here.

 

[Tinijocaro]

Yes, there is 8 weeks off over the summer. But compared to other professions this isn't too far off. Many professionals I know get 4 - 6 weeks vacation per year and theirs is paid vacation which they can take at any time (this is speaking generally).

I think people see our "8 weeks off" as vacation time. Nope-we are 10 month employees and only get paid for 10 months. This is not vacation time. Thanks for letting me clarify.

 

[disney_fan1972]

I guess I'm ignorant thinking that $45,000 a year is a fair salary for a starting teacher? Or that even though the fact that our town is losing 38% of $ from the state this year, teachers are getting 4% raises for the next 3 years? If a private company lost millions of dollars one year, do you really think that every employee would get across-the-board raises, and not have to pay for their health benefits?

Yes, teachers pay taxes, too, but at least their raises will more than cover the increase. My taxes are supposed to go up about $500 a year, so 15,000 total. Wish DH got a raise.

Mjkacmom,
Personally, I don't think $45,000 is bad for a starting salary! With regards to the 4% raise over 3 years... I can't explain it. Our union did negotiate a "3% raise" for teachers in our district, we lost benifits too though. Doing the math, I am getting $200 more a year. Yes, it is a raise and many didn't get that. I really don't know what to say... I'm sorry? I'll give it back? Ok. We actually moved out of our NJ town because our taxes were close to $7000 on a town house with no basement/no garage. Property taxes stink... especially when they go up. Mine doubled.... the year my 1st husband left and I became a single mom (ouch).

I'd be willing to take a pay freeze.... I wouldn't support a 3 year freeze contract though. Why? What happens when the economy improves... takes off even? Then I'm stuck with a pay freeze.

I hope your DH sees improvement with his company soon.

.... oh, and my health benifits aren't free... I contribute (we all do in my district)

 

[disney_fan1972]

I agree with this. I pay sky-high school taxes and am happy to be in a great school district, however something has got to give.The teachers raises are a given so that when the budget comes around the district threatens us with all the cuts they will make if the budget doesn't pass...oh, first they have a re-vote Where else can you retake a vote b/c you don't like the outcome? Ridiculous. I have 3 kids and have a teacher from my district in my family. I don't fault the teachers for making good money. I fault the incredible waste that goes on. My high school dd came home the other day to say that there are 3 or 4 new flat screen TV's in the high school lobby. My kids had tele-conferences that cost over $1000 in kindergarten...on and on it goes. Tomorrow is a budget meeting where the superintendent will explain the budget and smooth talk you so much that you leave the meeting thinking you'll have a check in your mailbox b/c he's saving us so much money.

The waste is stupid isn't it... I see it at our school. Sometimes I wish I could run things other times I'm grateful I don't!

The budget meeting comment made me laugh! It is SOOOOO true! LOL!

 

[JoiseyMom]

I live in NJ, and our towns school budget lost by a very large margin, over 1,000 votes. I am glad it was voted down. I am not against the teachers, I think our teachers are great, adn I think there should have been no layoffs. My beef is with the union. The NJEA rep didn't allow the teachers to take a pay freeze or pay for part of their benefits, they just said no. The admin staff took freezes.

They should take all the moeny paid to the NJEA and use that for the schools, we would be better off!! We don't need the NJEA..they are not helping the teachers anymore, they are hurting them.

I would rather them have cut after school activities and sports, which I feel as a parent I would pay extra for. My kids get a very good education, but I really feel they have "wasted" money. Why does my kids middle shcool have a full fitness center? Not for nothing, but if I want my child to work out, I will take her to a gym. It's nice..but I feel the money should be spent on education.

Now my DS9 will be learning Spanish via computer...they are letting all the lanuage teachers go and getting computer software.

I understand there is a need for cuts..I just agree where they are cutting. But the money isn't there, the taxpyaer doesn't have it either. As others have said, private sector jobs aren't getting raises, and most pay a fortune for really bad health benefits.

There is no good or easy solution. It's lose lose for everyone.

 

[disney_fan1972]

I live in NJ and I completely agree with this post. In my opinion this entire thing was badly handled by the union, and the unions have not helped the teacher/taxpayer relations at all. In the past when there have been contract negotiations/disputes the union has had the teachers do things like refuse to write college recommendations for students, etc. because it is not specifically in their contract. This is not "professional", imo.

I can't agree with you more!

 

[MM27]

If money was the answer to the question, 'Why are students not learning", then one has to wonder how the parochial schools have been so successful educating children, on shoe string budgets, larger classes and less technology.

Do you know for a fact that kids in parochial schools are better educated than those in public schools? I think you're missing some important factors. First of all, parochial schools can get rid of kids that don't perform or are behavior problems. In public school, we are required to keep them. Also, I would assume that if a parent was paying good money to send their kid to a private or parochial school that they would make sure they were involved in the education of that child and show an interest in making sure the child is successful. Again, not guaranteed in public school.

Wow, those PA salaries are something! I'm a teacher in Mercer County NJ (which is considered "high pay") and have been teaching 16 years and make less than what the PA teachers at 5 years make! And our benefits are not "free". We pay very high deductibles. And being single - I never ever reach the thousands of dollars of deduct. required so I am always paying. And as for the "4% raise we all get", that is not true. It's a 4% increase of the whole salary "pot". That 4% is spread out amongst however many hundreds of teachers there are. Some people get more, some people get less, some people get close to nothing. And with the 100 hours we have to do by NJ state law - many districts don't pay for those anymore. Workshops can be as cheap as $50, and up to $500. We no longer get money for lodging or meals. Especially being someone in a very specialized field, if I want to go to a very good workshop on autism over a weekend out of state, it may cost me over $1000 that I don't get back. And they often will only amount to 1/10 of the continuing education I need. Throw on top of that the materials I have to buy. I get $150 a year in supplies for my class. To include everything - paper, crayons, pencils, scissors. I teach autistic K-1, so I need a lot of stuff. I've been teaching 16 years and make in the mid $60s. I work summers bc I can't afford not to and don't get paid in the summer if I don't work. I feel like a lot of non-teachers don't actually know what goes on. We make no decisions as to where money is spent, what materials are bought, what garbage money is spent on. That's all decided by people making well into the 6 figures. It takes 10 of them to decide on a spelling book! And it takes them 5 months to do it. So teachers are getting a lot of backlash that we don't deserve. It's easy to read the papers, hear the propaganda, and make assumptions. I'd be more than happy to let people really see what goes on. Teachers are so not the problem - it's the admin and everyone NOT IN the classroom.

I couldn't agree with you more. Every time a contract is posted everyone gets all excited about teachers getting 4% or 5% raises. The thing is most people don't realize that it does not mean that every teacher, or any teacher, is getting that amount. If the contract spans 3 years, it is 4% spread over 3 years and across all the steps. Included in that amount is the custodial pay scales, secretaries, security guards, aides, etc. Yes, I appreciate any raise during these times, but it really irks me when people claim that I'm getting some huge raise just because the news tells them we settled on a certain percentage.

We also have to have a masters degree by year 5 after getting tenure or you stop moving steps. There are several teachers in my building that were told at their evaluation meeting that their increment would be withheld next year because of it. Our Superintendent informed us at our last meeting that he will start meeting with people next week to inform them of layoffs. The non-tenured teachers are so nervous right now because they were basically told that any of them can go. There is no seniority for them at all. Their only hope is people putting in for retirement that will help save their jobs.

My district announced in our budget for next year that they are cutting all supply money. So we are getting a grand total of zero for supplies. We were told to stretch what we have now because it's going to have to last until next June. Maybe I can have my students erase their papers after I hand them back so I can use that paper again next year I do not work in an area where parents send in anything, so asking for a notebook and some pencils will go unanswered. I just pray every year that Staples continues with their penny sales so I can get my whole class a notebook, folder, pencils and some crayons.

Here's an interesting read. Oh, the horrible teachers make so much money.

The governor's payroll / A touch of hypocrisy

What fun.

The Associated Press reported Monday that the $8.9 million payroll in the Governor's Office under Gov. Chris Christie is nearly $2 million more than the payroll under former Gov. Jon S. Corzine and includes 34 people making more than $100,000 while Corzine had 18 people making six figures.

Christie spokesman Michael Drewniak responded immediately, saying the AP had undercounted Corzine's payroll.

The former governor had at least a dozen staffers who were "on loan" to the Governor's Office and whose salaries were assigned to other departments, said Drewniak, who demanded that AP retract the story. Add in those staffers, and Corzine's $7 million payroll last year comes to $8.3 million, Drewniak added.

But even if you assume the governor's spokesman is correct, this story is still a big ouch for Christie.

Using Drewniak's numbers, the Christie administration is still spending $600,000 more on payroll than Corzine and has seven more staffers earning $100,000, the AP said.

This, when virtually every single area of state and local government is being cut. When Christie is proposing laying off 1,300 state workers. When school aid is being cut $819 million, and teachers are being fired. When aid to cities and towns is being cut by $450 million. When everything from libraries to family planning to subsidies for senior citizens' prescriptions would be cut by Christie's "shared sacrifice" budget proposal.

Oops.

To be fair, there could be some legitimate reasons why Chris Christie would have more people working for him and is spending more on payroll.

Christie isn't independently wealthy like Corzine. So the governor is taking his $175,000-a-year salary. Corzine took no pay.

Christie's administration does have certain costs associated with having New Jersey's first lieutenant governor. (Although, the AP said its figures do not include Lt. Gov. Kim Guadagno's $141,000 salary.)

And Drewniak noted, Christie has a wife. Corzine did not and so had no staff to pay for a first lady of New Jersey.

But sorry, that last one proves the point. First lady Mary Pat Christie has two staffers - a director of protocol making $125,000 and another person making $65,000.

This, at a time when - we repeat - virtually every single area of state and local government is being cut, and budgets are being scoured to find even more cuts.

Why does the first lady of New Jersey have a staff?

Because the first lady always has one?

Sorry, governor, that's not a good enough answer for a leader who insists that the old ways of running the state must end, that everyone must share the pain. What, exactly, would happen if the first lady had no staff?

The numbers here - the differences, whatever they actually are, between Christie's and Corzine's payrolls - really aren't that big.

But they are amusing.

The emperor is not quite naked, but his robe is slipping.

http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/opinion/editorials/article_077d5bf1-1faf-554f-8c0c-f7a6b060395d.html

 

[disney_fan1972]

Wow, those PA salaries are something! I'm a teacher in Mercer County NJ (which is considered "high pay") and have been teaching 16 years and make less than what the PA teachers at 5 years make! And our benefits are not "free". We pay very high deductibles. And being single - I never ever reach the thousands of dollars of deduct. required so I am always paying. And as for the "4% raise we all get", that is not true. It's a 4% increase of the whole salary "pot". That 4% is spread out amongst however many hundreds of teachers there are. Some people get more, some people get less, some people get close to nothing. And with the 100 hours we have to do by NJ state law - many districts don't pay for those anymore. Workshops can be as cheap as $50, and up to $500. We no longer get money for lodging or meals. Especially being someone in a very specialized field, if I want to go to a very good workshop on autism over a weekend out of state, it may cost me over $1000 that I don't get back. And they often will only amount to 1/10 of the continuing education I need. Throw on top of that the materials I have to buy. I get $150 a year in supplies for my class. To include everything - paper, crayons, pencils, scissors. I teach autistic K-1, so I need a lot of stuff. I've been teaching 16 years and make in the mid $60s. I work summers bc I can't afford not to and don't get paid in the summer if I don't work. I feel like a lot of non-teachers don't actually know what goes on. We make no decisions as to where money is spent, what materials are bought, what garbage money is spent on. That's all decided by people making well into the 6 figures. It takes 10 of them to decide on a spelling book! And it takes them 5 months to do it. So teachers are getting a lot of backlash that we don't deserve. It's easy to read the papers, hear the propaganda, and make assumptions. I'd be more than happy to let people really see what goes on. Teachers are so not the problem - it's the admin and everyone NOT IN the classroom.

Susan,

Love you for that! I teach HS Chemistry and STILL buy crayons (yes, they color the periodic table) pencils, pens, and paper (ya think kids could bring these) and on and on.

 

[disney_fan1972]

I'm a little taken back by the bad spelling from a couple of the teachers that posted on here. Agianst was one word used (this was done twice so I don't believe is a typo), sallary another.

LOL! Probably my fault! I can't spell to save my life... that said I teach chemistry and physical science and spell check everything I show the kids! I promice I will NEVER EVER teach English!

 

[princessmom29]

LOL! Probably my fault! I can't spell to save my life... that said I teach chemistry and physical science and spell check everything I show the kids! I promice I will NEVER EVER teach English!

I guess we need to form a "Chemistry Teachers Who Cannot Spell" club! Mabye it has something to do with the parts of the brain processing different activities?? I can solve a physics problem on the spot, but i don't write text on the board without checking!!

 

[MM27]

I'm a little taken back by the bad spelling from a couple of the teachers that posted on here. Agianst was one word used (this was done twice so I don't believe is a typo), sallary another.

I'm sure you meant taken aback, right?
and
I don't believe it is a typo

I wouldn't normally correct someone, but I find it a bit obnoxious to correct people on a message board. I don't spell check every time I post something, because honestly, it's my free time and I don't care.

 

[Jen414]

First, I must start out by saying that I am a public school teacher and thus a member of a union and have been for the last 14 years. My husband is a police officer and also a member of a union. Obviously, we are both pro-union.

The other "arguement" that can be made is that in some states it's property taxes that fund education. What about people that don't have children or send children to private schools? They are still paying for the public education and not utilizing it. I think most people, especially now feel overworked and underpaid.

Property taxes fund education here in MA. While I feel for those who don't use the public schools, I do feel like everyone must support them. Using this flawed logic, people who never need fire fighters or police officers should not pay for them either. And if you are a "snowbird", you don't benefit from all of the plowing in the winter, so you shouldn't have to pay for snow removal.

I don't think that everyone has a problem with teachers getting raises at all, per se ... I believe the issue is with the fact that some teachers and their unions are just not willing to even compromise to take a temporary pay freeze just until this financial fiasco that we are all facing takes a turn for the better ...

I applaud the teachers and administrative who have agreed to take a pay freeze and pay towards their health benefits ... everybody, whether in the public or private sector, has had to make these same financial sacrifices in one way or another ... maybe if we can all just do our part and work together for the short term, it'll help us all for the better in the long term ...

In my district, we have agreed to take a one-day furlough. (We will give up one day's pay and have only 4 professional development days instead of 5.) My sister's district is taking a 4-day furlough next year. My mother's district just settled a one-year contract for a 0% raise. My district also agreed to forgo our course reimbursement pool for a year.

I think that teachers are willing to bend, but only to an extent. For me and many in our union, it is annoying that when times are bad, school committees, board of selectmen, and the general public ask us to open our contract (which was agreed to by both parties) and take a smaller raise or take no raise at all. However, when times are good, they don't say, "Hey, we have some extra money sitting around. What do you say we open your contract and give you a bigger raise." I think that's one of the biggest differences between the public and private sector. Don't get me wrong--I know that times are tight in the private sector and people have been laid off, or taken a pay cut, or had their job increased (due to others being laid off) and their pay decreased. However, when times were good 5-10 years ago, these were the people getting big year-end bonuses. In the education field, bonuses don't exist. And this is fine with me--I knew that going in. However, I do expect that when I negotiate a raise (and I was part of the last negotiating team), it is honored.

I feel for many of you on this board who work or send children to schools in districts where education is not valued. I can't imagine teaching in schools with some of the class sizes you have stated. Next year, with the cuts that have been made in my district, I will have 23 kids. This is the highest I have had in 11 years. I cannot imagine how I could effectively teach in a room with 30 children. How can anyone even move around the room?

I don't know how to fix this giant problem, which is obviously nationwide, but I think it is obvious that at this point, there are many, many leaks in the dike and we are in great danger!

 

[deb24k]

It is interesting to read other's perspectives on this issue. I guess many of my opinions lie squarely in the middle of most on this forum. For example I agree that the pension system (at least in MA) is a drain on the system and, quite frankly, is a reason that some teachers who should move on to other professions due to burn out etc remain in their posts. In Ma I contribute 11%of my earnings and if I were to leave the job after 10-15 years I would only pull out my money as if it were a savings account. Who wants to contribute to a retirement plan for that long with no possibility of a return? You either put in your due time or buy back that time.

I am more than willing to accept a pay freeze in order to maintain possitions and services during hard economic times; however many people would wish us to accept those terms even in good economic times. I understand fully that the majority of the school budget is comprised of salaries and benefits (we contribute to our plans) but much waste is spent elsewhere in systems particularly in sending out students with special needs rather than developing appropriate in-house programs.

I am a teacher in MA and am required to hold two liscenses for my position. My contract stipulates that I earn 4 college credits each four years in order to continue to move up steps on the salary scale. The reimbursement amount I receive generally does not cover the costs. The last course I took cost me 600$ out of pocket which was about 1/2 of my step raise for that year. Most of the offerings in my district are courses that I have already taken and cannot be counted for liscense renewal. I am required to hold two for my position.

My work environment is like nothing I have encountered in the private sector. When it rains I can run a YMCA swim class in some of our classrooms. Computer equipment never works properly yet is required for job completion thus I must spend my own time and money on equipment not to mention supplies. There is no money left in the budget to send me to workshops or seminars. These are requirements in order to maintain liscensure and I am required to pay it out of my own pocket. My circle of friends who are professionals in the private sector most certainly do not pay for required job elements. Although I am sure that there are those in the private sector who do I do not think this would be a common phenomenon.

 

[SusanWasHere]

Just to let people in on a little story to do with wage freezes. There was a NJ district that decided to take a pay freeze even before it was brought up in the press or by the governor. They reopened the contract and took the freeze. Their budget was passed. And guess what?? No jobs were saved!!! They're going to cut the same people they said they would before the freeze, there are the same number of administrators, and the programs for the kids are going to be cut. So everyone wanting teachers to take a freeze - WHY SHOULD WE??? It doesn't help! And now all those teachers - most are probably parents - aren't getting any raises and will now be paying more for anything extra their children may need in their districts. In actuality, it's like a pay CUT. And once again - the teachers have NOTHING to do with the overspending, and yet they took one for the team - and the team still lost. And the kids still suffer!

 

[Jen414]

Just to let people in on a little story to do with wage freezes. There was a NJ district that decided to take a pay freeze even before it was brought up in the press or by the governor. They reopened the contract and took the freeze. Their budget was passed. And guess what?? No jobs were saved!!! They're going to cut the same people they said they would before the freeze, there are the same number of administrators, and the programs for the kids are going to be cut. So everyone wanting teachers to take a freeze - WHY SHOULD WE??? It doesn't help! And now all those teachers - most are probably parents - aren't getting any raises and will now be paying more for anything extra their children may need in their districts. In actuality, it's like a pay CUT. And once again - the teachers have NOTHING to do with the overspending, and yet they took one for the team - and the team still lost. And the kids still suffer!

It's not like a pay CUT; it is a pay cut. Before I was a teacher, I was an accountant, so I can find my way around a spreadsheet pretty well. Although we were never asked to take a freeze (or take a "0" as we call it), it was definitely out there. I knew it was a bad, bad idea, but just so others could see it, I ran some numbers. For a young teacher, with virtually no experience, over the course of 30 years, it would be an $80K decrease in overall earnings. If you had around 5 years experience and with a Masters, it woud be around $100K less, and if you were in the corner on our salary scale (11 years, Master's +60), it would be a $117K net reduction in earnings. For some in our union that were contemplating it, this totally swayed them the other way. This all assumed a 2% raise in every year after next year. To get this figure, I asked the people in my building who had been there over 30 years, and they thought if you averaged out 30 years, you would probably end up with 2%. This also doesn't take into account moving down the salary scale (based on number of years in service) or moving across (based on more degreees or graduate credits). Taking a "0" is a very drastic thing for a union to do and I hope that in communities where it has been done, the people are very greatful.

 

[SusanWasHere]

It's not like a pay CUT; it is a pay cut. Before I was a teacher, I was an accountant, so I can find my way around a spreadsheet pretty well. Although we were never asked to take a freeze (or take a "0" as we call it), it was definitely out there. I knew it was a bad, bad idea, but just so others could see it, I ran some numbers. For a young teacher, with virtually no experience, over the course of 30 years, it would be an $80K decrease in overall earnings. If you had around 5 years experience and with a Masters, it woud be around $100K less, and if you were in the corner on our salary scale (11 years, Master's +60), it would be a $117K net reduction in earnings. For some in our union that were contemplating it, this totally swayed them the other way. This all assumed a 2% raise in every year after next year. To get this figure, I asked the people in my building who had been there over 30 years, and they thought if you averaged out 30 years, you would probably end up with 2%. This also doesn't take into account moving down the salary scale (based on number of years in service) or moving across (based on more degreees or graduate credits). Taking a "0" is a very drastic thing for a union to do and I hope that in communities where it has been done, the people are very greatful.

Wow, that's even scarier than I thought! Really puts it out there! And after reading all about the salary CC has his wife's "staff" making, I'll fight to the death to not take a wage freeze!!

 

[mom2aredhead]

I think it is so very clear. The no votes all across the state are sending the signal- CONSOLIDATE! I have a district with 421 students k-8 there is a superintendant, 2 principals and 7 secretaries. Really? Really? The super works 240 days a year and gets 45 PAID days off. Who else in the country gets this?

It's administation costs that have gotten out of control in our state.

Exactly. NJ is ridiculous. There is no reason for a state that size to have as many "districts" as it has. Seriously, do we need almost 600 (yes 600!!) school districts? Each with its own administrators, boards, etc. that has overhead costs associated with it. THAT is where the money is going people...not in the teachers pockets. But heaven forbid the district of Marlboro merge with the Aberdeen-Matawan district next door and they no longer have the "prestige" factor of the "Marlboro school system". Spare me.
I would even venture to guess that given the choice, the tax payers that live in the so-called elite "blue ribbon" school districts would rather pay more in taxes, fire teachers and eliminate programs to retain their "status" than combine with a district with a lesser reputation to combine the costs, even f it means that their kids would sit in the same classroom with the same teacher getting the same education either way.

I fully support teachers. I have several teachers in my family. They work hard, and deserve more money and respect. However, they sometimes forget that there are other professions that also work hard and are underpaid and under appreciated. Lots of people bring work home at night and on weekends - not just teachers. Lots of people are being asked to do more with less. Lots of people are not receiving pay increases.
A lot of people I know become teachers, despite the salary and hard work, but not because they were compelled to stimulate the minds of America's youth, not because they received a calling, not because they felt like they were "making a difference". It was BECAUSE it is a pretty family-friendly schedule which offers many benefits that are completely unheard of in a corporate environment...sometimes you just have to take the good with the bad.

 

[Alphabetsoup]

Sorry for the delayed response, I went to lunch.

This is in Southeastern, PA. Bucks County to be specific. And it is not just those with 20+ years. I'm sure these are Master's holders, but nowadays getting your masters can be done from your own house on the weekends, and, in Pennsylvania, also reimbursed by public funds.

Here are some examples:

$97,236/year (10 years exp.)
$73,239/year (5 years exp.)
$53,626/year (2 years - Elementary)
$57,941/year (1 year) - Basically a starting salary for this area.

In our neighboring County, Montgomery County, PA:

$103,480/year (15 years exp. - Elementary 1-3)
$96,991/year (12 years exp.)
$93,500/year (9 years exp.)
$82,455/year (13 years exp.) --- This teacher is teaching in a District that is currently on Strike, as well.

WOW... I just accepted a university professor position in PA and with a PhD in my area and 8+ years experience, I will be making roughly $15 LESS than an entry level teacher in your county?!?! Good grief... and I still have to pay for my health insurance (I'm not sure where all the talk about getting free health care is, because I have yet to see a bit of that 'good luck').

That said, I know HS and elementary school teachers with 5-8 years experience in NC who are still making less than $40k a year...you can't tell me they are overpaid for the work they do. My SIL regularly has to buy textbooks for her classroom, construction paper and craft things for the kids, plus is expected to spend her own money to decorate her classroom -- all of which FAAAAR exceeds the $250 tax deduction she is allowed to take. Last year she spent over $1000 on her kids and her classroom! WHY?? Because she was told to that she had to do certain things in her performance evaluation.

The fact is, teachers these days are expected to do FAR more than they used to. It is no longer a matter of teaching during the school day...they have to be counselors, psychologists, parents, security officers, etc.... and constantly dealing with parents who complain because their precious snowflake of a child isn't doing as well as they expect, or has too much homework, or isn't picked first for kickball....all kinds of things.

At the moment my SIL has FIVE students out of 30 who have serious learning difficulties and behaviour problems....the parents ALL refuse to have their students tested, even after being shown that if they are tested, then they can get more help in the classroom (she would get a classroom assistant to help with them). But no, the parents would rather blame the teacher for not spending enough time working one-on-one with their children, than consider that there may be something else going on. She ends up doing up doing up to an hour (EACH) of documentation on these kids every 2 days or so, so that she can document each issue. All of this takes time away from kids who also need her. The administration is supporting the parents -- meanwhile the kids are getting further behind because they are getting in-school and out of school suspensions due to their behavior issues.

And lets face it...in some districts, teachers should be paid hazard pay for the stuff they have to put up with (my SIL had a 9 year old pull a knife on her and a classmate one day...and this is a small mountain town in NC!!!).

There is no way in the world I would look at her and say she needed a pay cut...the woman needs a raise (and an administration team that actually supports teachers...but that is another matter).

 

[TheDisneyGirl02]

Keep that in prespective Todd,

The average house in bucks county compared to the rest of PA in 2008 cost

Mean price in 2008:

Detached houses: $407,450
Here: $407,450
State: $226,884


Townhouses or other attached units: $292,427
Here: $292,427
State: $161,921


In 2-unit structures: $321,764
Here: $321,764
State: $152,955


In 3-to-4-unit structures: $238,236
Here: $238,236
State: $178,834



Read more: http://www.city-data.com/county/Bucks_County-PA.html#ixzz0lkx5vg00

The cost of living in Bucks county is higher than average in the US

Dec. 2009 cost of living index in Bucks County: 108.4 (more than average, U.S. average is 100
Read more: http://www.city-data.com/county/Bucks_County-PA.html#ixzz0lkxL79U5


So teachers in Bucks county who must live in Bucks county have to have a comparable salary

and so their salary is no way out of line for the area they live.

I drove my husband to work this morning. We live in Bucks County (in an apartment, might I add because we can't afford a house right now) but drove into Montgomery County. As I was driving, I was noticing the amount of large and when I say large, I mean LARGE houses with 3+ garages. We drove past one development where the homes STARTED at over $800,000!



I'm originally from Lehigh County (which is connected to Bucks County). My father teaches in a suburban district there and my twin teaches in an urban district there. I can tell you for a fact that my sister (who started teaching less than 10 years ago) makes no where NEAR the salary that Toad posted.

Many many folks have lost jobs, have not had pay increases in recent years if they are employed and also have had to "take" pay cuts to keep their jobs. You can't keep robbing Peter to satisfy Paul.

Funny thing about your statement - last March, I received a glowing review at my job and I was rewarded with a 5% raise. Between March and July, we got a new CEO. July 16, 2009 I was laid off from my job. I would have been taken back my raise in a heartbeat if it would have saved me from being laid off. I know of very few people, if given the option, who wouldn't.

If money was the answer to the question, 'Why are students not learning", then one has to wonder how the parochial schools have been so successful educating children, on shoe string budgets, larger classes and less technology.

The bolding is mine.

I know for a fact that the parochial schools in my area are suffering. They don't have enough students to keep the schools open. They are consolidating three schools into one beginning next year. My friend who is a teacher at one of those schools, was lucky enough to get hired as one of the two teachers per grade level at the new school. She's scared that come the beginning of the school year, enrollment will be so low that she will get laid off before school even starts. She is currently applying at other districts in hopes that she will get another job. She has always had a very small class - no more that 12 or 13 students. That is practically unheard of in public schools in this area.

That would be fine to discuss if teachers were required to live where they work, but they don't. There are plenty of teachers who do NOT live in their District, or even within their County for that matter. But that's neither here, nor there, since a lot of us work in a different place than we live.

The problem is how long can a District's tax base support salaries that are already that high, and will only get higher with each subsequent contract?

I was born and raised in the school district where my dad teaches. As a matter of fact, I attended the school he taught (well still teaches) at when I was in elementary school. Everytime he gets a 'raise' he pays for it too. He also has to pay for benefits for him and my mom. He has worked his 35 years (he'll be 59 in October) but has no plans to retire anytime soon. He enjoys what he is doing way too much to leave. Does he have bad days at work, yeah - who doesn't? But he loves his job and he works very hard at it. Last night, he came home around 6:30-7pm which was an early night for him.

Now, my sister on the other hand comes home right after school is done. Why? Because she doesn't have a classroom at her school - actually she doesn't even have a desk. She is a special ed teacher and goes into the classrooms to teach her kids. She has a shelf in a closet where she can keep some of her teaching things - other than that, it has to go on her 'cart' that she takes with her everywhere. It still amazes me that she doesn't even have a desk and people wonder why some teachers leave as soon as school is over. Don't think it's because they are lazy - maybe it's because they truly have no place to do their work.

I have come from a family of teachers - my great-aunt was a teacher/college professor, my aunt was a teacher/principal, my dad is a teacher and my sister is a teacher. It takes a special person to be a teacher - I know I don't have that quality.

OP, I feel your pain. I defend good teachers all of the time online and it gets depressing after a while. And people wonder why kids disrespect their teachers so much.

 

[texaslover]

I teach in TX where we do not have unions. The problem here is that we have good starting salaries but retention is very poor because teachers are not given much compensation for experience. A first year teacher can make 40,000 in our district and a teacher with 8 years experience and a M.A. can make 46,000. If a teacher is truly committed to education they realize that this is not a profession that is valued or rewarded based upon merit. It is a very intrinsic reward. The most I have received from the district is a 2% raise. This is based upon funding and is not guaranteed. There are years that we get 0.

We also contribute a lot to our health insurance. Sadly, it is very rare that a couple can both be teachers because the monthly contribution for an employee and spouse is close to $1,000. My husband works in the private sector and has a decent health plan so our family is covered through his company. This is something that we thought long and hard about before I changed professions from a corporate position to a SAHM to teaching. We had to decide if his employment was secure enough that we were confident in his insurance because we could not afford to be on my plan, especially if he was laid off, etc.

Oh, wanted to add that we have a retirement plan but we contribute to it. We do not pay Social Security taxes but we are required to put that money into the Texas teachers retirement fund. We will not get Social Security for our years of teaching. So we basically pay for our own retirement in a way that is similar to 401k but required, not optional.

We get paid on a 10 month schedule but can stretch those payments to 12 months if we would like. We are required to attend at least 5 days of non paid training in the summer to retain our certificate in addition to meetings with our team for beginning of the year planning, setting up our rooms, and being on any special committees. Again, non-paid. We do have parents bring supplies at the beginning of the year but if we run out we buy what we can't live without. Examples from this year: Kleenex, dry erase markers, treasure chest items for rewards, pencils, notebook paper, crayons/folders for new students, chart paper, and highlighters. I also had several struggling students that I have been very concerned about so I purchased additional curriculum extensions and interventions.

I have had parents verbally berate me in emails for making their kid sit by themselves in the cafe for one day because they threw food in someone's hair or sending them to the office for cursing (3rd grade), just 2 examples of interactions I have daily. No matter how many hours I give after school tutoring students (no extra pay), serving on the PTA, attending literacy meetings, or researching new ways of reaching a struggling or difficult student I never feel like I am doing enough.

I love the kids and am very good at my job. The lack of respect for me personally and for the profession in general is what will lead me to another career as it has done many, many other great teachers. I will really miss the students and the reward of seeing their learning. The cycle of young teachers coming into and then leaving the profession will continue. The funny thing is that most parents complain about getting a 1st year teacher (not good enough for their babies) yet do not want the experienced teachers to be compensated for their knowledge.