shows, saving seats etc

[Sleeping Becca]

Thank you, Becca. I appreciate that. I get so tired of people saying that those without children aren't entitled to have opinions on most things that involve WDW or Disney in general. I've never once told someone that they couldn't have an opinion on a matter because they had children.

Aren't we all kids at WDW? Disney is for kids of all ages, Walt said so himself!

Anywho! You will soon be in the kids club! Congrats! Children are God's greatest blessing and also the greatest challenge! The saying is very true....Kids do change everything (well not everything, but they sure do change a lot).

The Rusty Scupper has children so obviously his opinion is not a result of being childless.

 

[CanadianGuy]

Just a reminder - opinions on this topic are like bellybuttons... Everyone has one.

There is no need to subject those with whom you disagree to the third degree. Just accept that there is a myriad of viewpoints on the issue and revel in our collective diversity.



Knox

 

[MHSweb79]

I see that Mr & Mrs Smith have a baby inside, congratulations. Please check back in two years and let us know if your opinion is the same.

Erm... I was thinking the same thing!
I know I've done pretty much EVERY SINGLE thing I swore I would never do after I had kids, including opening cracker packages in the grocery store (paid for every single thing eaten, by the way) to keep the kid quiet in the cart.
So yes, I have more sympathy to the parents of younger children who can't sit still for a 45-minute wait. Because I would much rather have dad keep the kids busy elsewhere than listen to them whine or complain for 45 minutes, or get yelled at every 2 minutes for squirming or crawling on the dirty floor, wouldn't you?

 

[dqpowell]

I am so absolutely positively sick of this attitude. [...] When I have my baby, I am not going to completely change every value that I hold now.

It's a common sentiment because it is so often true. You can rail against it all you want to now... but you too will likely understand at some point in the future.

I'm not saying you will change every opinion, or even that you will agree on this one particular issue.

But you will change your opinions on some issues that you currently think will never change, as a result of having children.

It is a universal truth that there are many things somebody can't understand or agree with until they are put into the same situation as the person they disagree with. It's the origin of "walk a mile in somebody else's shoes."

David

 

[inkkognito]

Whew, this thread reminds me of the most harsh seat-saving situation I ever encounted, which was on the Disney Magic during the Panama crossing this fall. First, let me say that I don't hold stock with unreasonable seat saving. I've had people tell me they are saving a whole row in the ship's theater, and I just say, "If you read your Navigator you'll see that's not allowed" and plunk my butt down. But a couple of seats really don't bother me...I know some people are black and white, but I just don't see that as a biggie.

So I was sitting behind a family of mom, dad, and two children. They had moved down the row, so there was still one seat at the end as well as one seat at the end of the row in front of them. Dad ran out of the theater to get drinks, which they sell at a bar right outside. Meanwhile, an older man came in and sat down next to the mom. She said, "I'm saving that for my husband." The man just laid into her! I mean really got downright NASTY about self-righteous jerks who save seats. For a minute I didn't think he was going to get up, but his wife caught up with him and he started ranting to her and they stormed off. The irony is that they could have just taken the end two seats in those two rows.

I'm all for being assertive with unreasonable savers, but I just didn't see this as a case where that applied.

 

[jeffd101]

The worst seat-saving incident that we ever encountered was at Fantasmic, a second showing, last May. We were seated in the Mickey section about halfway up. We were very satisfied with our seats as were our kids, DD9 and DS12, who patiently waited in line with us, as they have every year since they were 9 and 6. The theatre was getting quite full and people were searching for seats in our section.

Two or three rows ahead of a lady was standing looking towards the back. I believe she may have had another adult or two with her, but she had about half a row taken up with bags and jackets. The call to scoot over came and went and nothing. She was still standing, obviously looking for the rest of her party. Thankfully she was not standing in front of us or DH would have had a few choice words. The theatre got dark and the show began, she finally sat down but was on her phone. About 5-10 minutes AFTER THE SHOW STARTED, in come a pile of teenagers who blocked everyone's view while they tramped over people to get to their seats. They got a little verbal flack, but nobody really confronted their behaviour. They probably got an extra few rides on RnR and TOT, while Mama saved the seats.

Rules and/or common courtesy don't seem to apply to everyone. Many people seem to have what DH likes to call "entitlement issues". But what to do besides cause a scene? Others have mentioned that they spoke politely to these types and were verbally (and physically in some cases) accosted.

Sometimes the Happiest Place on Earth makes you feel like the Crankiest Person on Earth. However, I guess it takes all kinds to make the world go round, even WDW.

 

[delmar411]

I see that Mr & Mrs Smith have a baby inside, congratulations. Please check back in two years and let us know if your opinion is the same.

ETA~ we don't do seat saving but we do get up to use the bathroom frequently. And by 'we', I mean ME. After 4 huge babies my bladder has taken a beating and my 4yr old can hold it longer than me! LOL

But we grab our seats when we need to and do the entertaining of the kids when we need to. We are fully prepared with drinks, snacks, toys, and silly songs to sooth the antsy children. So I've never really noticed seat/space saving problems.

 

[Mr. & Mrs. Smith]

It's a common sentiment because it is so often true. You can rail against it all you want to now... but you too will likely understand at some point in the future.

I'm not saying you will change every opinion, or even that you will agree on this one particular issue.

But you will change your opinions on some issues that you currently think will never change, as a result of having children.

Again, I don't see why this thread has to turn into "You don't have children so you can't possibly understand seat-saving." Sure, some thoughts about parenting may change when I have a baby. However, there's nothing to indicate that my views on seat-saving will. Again, as you can see, there are posters here with children who feel the same way I do on the issue.

 

[dqpowell]

Again, I don't see why this thread has to turn into "You don't have children so you can't possibly understand seat-saving." Sure, some thoughts about parenting may change when I have a baby. However, there's nothing to indicate that my views on seat-saving will.

As I said, you may not change your opinion on this particular issue. In my previous post I was commenting more generally on the sentiment you're exasperated with hearing. It was pretty annoying to my wife and I as well in the years before we had children... I can't count the number of times somebody said "we'll see how you think/feel about that once you have kids." We hated it.

And yet it's often true. Opinions change with new perspectives. It is impossible, in some cases, to 'get it' until you're in the same situation as another.

Again, as you can see, there are posters here with children who feel the same way I do on the issue.

For what it's worth, there are also a lot of people who thought as you do about this particular issue until they had kids. No -- not everybody changes their minds about this. Some never will. Some don't when they have one child, or are lucky enough to have children of a particular temperament that makes this a non-issue. Some change their opinions with their second or third child or change their opinion on the matter when they have their first child of a particular temperament.

Children are not blank slates that their parents can program at will to act in exactly the way they want them to. Certainly a parent can have an influence -- even a significant one. But kids are not computers. Personality is only part nurture -- nature plays a significant role as well. My wife and I did not alter (in any significant way) our methods of parenting for each child that came along. Yet the temperaments and personalities of our first and third children are similar, and our second is very different.

My mother is one of nine children. I assure you that my grandparents (her parents) raised them all the same way, or if their methods changed they were gradual and should at least have affected siblings of similar ages the same way. Yet there are significant differences in personality between my mother and her three sisters and five brothers, and similarities don't consistently correspond with approximate ages.

I'm getting off on a tangent, but it's related to the pertinent question. My point is that you have no frame of reference -- yet -- to understand the seat-saving issue for parents. You know what works for you and notice that even some people with children agree with you. I assure you -- the vast majority of parents don't. You may not, once you have children.

David

 

[Mr. & Mrs. Smith]

I'm getting off on a tangent, but it's related to the pertinent question. My point is that you have no frame of reference -- yet -- to understand the seat-saving issue for parents. You know what works for you and notice that even some people with children agree with you. I assure you -- the vast majority of parents don't. You may not, once you have children.

It seems so silly to me that people would take the time to very carefully argue why they think I am not entitled to have an opinion on this issue. I do have a frame of reference on saving seats that is just as valid as yours or anyone elses. You may disagree but it's still my opinion that I am allowed to express.

It's not as if I'm judging anyone for saving seats. I already said that it's not a big deal to me what other people do. I'm just saying that I have never saved seats, including when traveling with my cousin who has very special needs, and I don't intend to start when I have a child.

For the record, I realize that kids have different temperments. I spend plenty of time with children. However, I think it's up to parents to make adjustments for a child's individual needs. If you have a kid who can't sit for an hour, don't show up an hour before a show starts.

 

[Schmeck]

However, I think it's up to parents to make adjustments for a child's individual needs. If you have a kid who can't sit for an hour, don't show up an hour before a show starts.

But they're entitled to have the best seats, you know, because they paid $$$ and it's going to be the perfect vacation, and the kids are in these elaborate, gaudy outfits, with matching accessories, and aren't they just the best creatures ever created and of course they can't just sit and have a conversation, they need to have that toy now, and he's only two so of course they let him try to grab your bags and dump your purchases out and stand on your feet and get his chocolate covered hands all over your pants and cough on you and they need to go and come back and go again, stepping on your feet each time...

Yeah, we sat behind a family like this at Fantasmic once.... Little brats, and their kids were a pain too...

 

[dqpowell]

It seems so silly to me that people would take the time to very carefully argue why they think I am not entitled to have an opinion on this issue.

Who -- please quote them -- said you aren't entitled to have an opinion on this issue?

What I'm saying, and I believe what others are saying, is that your opinion is likely to change once you have children. There is a not-subtle difference between what I'm saying and the way you're interpreting it.

I do have a frame of reference on saving seats that is just as valid as yours or anyone elses.

Your frame of reference lacks a component right now that it will have in the future. Because your frame of reference will change, your opinion may change with it. That is all I'm saying.

I'm just saying that I have never saved seats, including when traveling with my cousin who has very special needs, and I don't intend to start when I have a child.

And yet you may. Because traveling with your cousin is not the same as having children who are not your cousin. Your role and priorities and perspective will be different.

However, I think it's up to parents to make adjustments for a child's individual needs. If you have a kid who can't sit for an hour, don't show up an hour before a show starts.

If the show requires showing up an hour ahead of time just to be able to see it (think Fantasmic playing only twice per week, or some as-yet-unknown show), and seeing that show is important to you, you will almost certainly change your opinion. I'm not talking about one person saving a dozen seats. I'm talking about one or two people saving one or two seats besides their own. You may find that for the sake of everybody's comfort and happiness (EVERYBODY'S -- yours, your family's, the other spectators at the show), that it makes the most sense for you or your spouse to save one or two seats for you or your spouse and a child to sit in later.

I have no further desire to discuss this. The back-and-forth is likely to seem argumentative when I really don't intend it to be.

I wish you a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year -- sincerely.

David

 

[ScarletFire]

I've not read the entire thread but, I have children and never save seats. If they don't want to wait; then we don't go. That goes for rides, shows, whatever. I've never considered any other option.

 

[Mr. & Mrs. Smith]

What I'm saying, and I believe what others are saying, is that your opinion is likely to change once you have children. There is a not-subtle difference between what I'm saying and the way you're interpreting it.

{snip}

If the show requires showing up an hour ahead of time just to be able to see it (think Fantasmic playing only twice per week, or some as-yet-unknown show), and seeing that show is important to you, you will almost certainly change your opinion. I'm not talking about one person saving a dozen seats. I'm talking about one or two people saving one or two seats besides their own. You may find that for the sake of everybody's comfort and happiness (EVERYBODY'S -- yours, your family's, the other spectators at the show), that it makes the most sense for you or your spouse to save one or two seats for you or your spouse and a child to sit in later.

I have no idea why you can't just accept that I have a different opinion than you that is no less valid than yours. You don't know that my opinion on seat saving is "likely" to change when I have kids. Period. You have absolutely no way of knowing that and it has very little to do with this thread. And, frankly, I think this is such a silly discussion to be having.

Seeing a show should be no more important to any parent than the comfort and enjoyment of their children. I might really, really want to see Fantasmic but it might be impractical for me to do that with a toddler. Then, I can always take my chances and show up when it is about to start or find something else to entertain my family for an hour or so.

Again, you don't have to agree but that's just how I feel.

 

[sandym718]

I've not read the entire thread but, I have children and never save seats. If they don't want to wait; then we don't go. That goes for rides, shows, whatever. I've never considered any other option.

ITA with this! We have a 4 yo and 6 yo, our first trip was when they were 2 and 4. We don't save seats, we don't let anyone leave the line, etc. They are perfectly capable of waiting, and WE are responsible esp. at age 2!) for providing the appropriate entertainment to keep them and those around us happy. That may mean playing I Spy or looking at a book, giving a snack (brought in with us, like raisins), or whatever else. If they want to enjoy the attraction -ride or show- they wait in line or in seat- like everyone else. Or at least like everyone else SHOULD be doing!

That said, I understand if someone with a Young child needs to leave a line or show that they WERE ALREADY WAITING FOR to take them to the bathroom. I never find it acceptable for 1 party to enter a line/show and save seats, but if the family/group has already been waiting then a small child has a bathroom emergency, I think that is OK for them to leave and return. Our DD was potty-trained at 25 months, and that first 6 weeks or so, when she had to go, she had to GO!! However, I wouldn't have done it then (she really did it herself) if we had a Disney trip planned. By 27-28 months she could hold it as long/longer than me! But I understand little ones can't always hold it. Same thing applies if a BABY (infant!) is just crying and crying, can't be calmed. I am totally fine if a parent needs to take them for a walk or whatever to get them calmed down - obviously they have no concept of lines, shows, etc. But, again, they were already waiting when that problem started.

I have to politely disagree with the poster talking about a 5 and 7 yo who could not sit for an hour. Maybe that is true for her family, but in that case the family shouldn't arrive an hour early. As others have said, arrive later and take your chances on seats. But, most children that age SHOULD be able to wait an hour for something they want to do - they can make the choice - sit and wait or don't see the attraction/show. Of course, if there are special needs involved, that's different, and there is other assistance available for that.

 

[Mr. & Mrs. Smith]

Sandym718, thank you so much for your post.

 

[donaldsgal]

Why did this thread turn into a debate regarding whether Mr. & Mrs. Smith can really "get it" regarding seat-saving since she doesn't have kids and asserting/strongly implying her opinions will change when she has a child (which seems like a mean way to comment on someone's pregnancy - to offer a back-handed compliment)? IMO, that's unkind and unnecessary. I really dislike it when people tend to target on one person in a thread - especially when it's over a secondary issue not directly related to the reason for the post - such as whether someone's opinions about handling toddlers' and children's needs will change after having kids. Again, IMO, there have been a handful of posters who have done this, and I just don't see it as helpful or informative on Theme Park Attractions and Strategies. Maybe on the community board where people shoot to kill , but not here. This thread is about seat-saving, personal space, and whether or not you should have to move if you're on the end. Whether or not the people that have posted their opinions on these issues have produced offspring seems highly irrelevant. I know some people won't like this post, but seriously. Enough with the commentary on people's status as parents.

Here's my opinions to the original question:

1) We don't often make use of seat-saving but will if a) one or two people in our party are getting ready to hit the ride vehicle in a ride queue and texted/called us that they'll be there soon (as in minutes), b) someone has to go to the bathroom, or c) someone runs to a cart to get a drink. Other than that, no seat-saving for us. And I don't subscribe to the belief that we should save seats just because.

2) I wouldn't use bags to save seats. If, as I mentioned in #1, someone ran out quickly or will be there soon, I'd just try to keep their space open without putting some object there. However, if someone came up and needed that spot or a CM asked me to move in, I'd do it.

3) Little to none on the personal space front. We usually are within 3 or 4 inches of the people next to us at shows that don't have individual seats (F!, Spectro, etc.). Them's the breaks.

4) YES! Fill in all available spaces. I see how this can (and sometimes does) contradict my opinion on saving spaces, but I reiterate that I think saving one or two spaces for someone who dashes out or will arrive in 5-10 minutes is reasonable. I know others will disagree. My opinion isn't so important that I'll fight with someone who challenges it in the park because, in reality, this has never been a problem in our trips. Either we go at slower times (although we don't) or people around us happen to be easy-going. The most frequent situation like this that we encounter are those people who sit in the middle of a row at PhilharMagic, and because we choose to follow the rules, we step over them (and sometimes on them, which I'm sure is unpleasant and I don't like doing but can't be helped). We also manage, apparently, to hydrate, visit the facilities, feed ourselves, and get in line together 99% of the time. I can think of one time when we didn't in the last 8 visits in 8 years, and that was a situation in which three of us were coming in to F! after having ridden ToT. We got there with 15 minutes to spare and there were still empty seats, so I don't think we denied anyone anything. If we did, I apologize, and if someone politely points out that they need a seat and it appears I have a few free spaces around me, I'd agree and - as I said - move over and tell my missing family member what happened by phone or text, or I'd give up my seats so we could be together.

Oh, and I have no children. I do travel, every trip, with my now-3 year old niece who is recently potty-trained, is strong-willed, has been known to scream bloody murder when she doesn't get her way, and is a positively fabulous human being. We try to keep her occupied while we wait for things. IMO, this doesn't make me better or worse than any of the rest of you - seat-savers, non-seat-savers, waiters-with-toddlers/kids, non-waiters-with-toddlers/kids, scooter-over-ers, non-scooter-over-ers, etc. I just want us all to get along and stick to the topic at hand. These remarks constitute my opinion and touring philosophy, which has apparently worked as I've only chastised one fellow guest at Disney (but that was about a HA issue).

 

[Mr. & Mrs. Smith]

Donaldsgal - Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

 

[glitterkittyy]

We do not save seats in our family. We take care of business beforehand (snacks, bathroom breaks, etc) then enter as a family and wait together. If my kids can't wait, they don't get to see it/ride it/do it, whatever.

We see lots of seat saving going on, and we generally don't let it bother us. What I hate more than seat saving is line saving when one person stands in line to wait then here comes mom or dad with the crew of 5 right before seeing a character or riding a ride.

My opinion on this didn't change after giving birth either. lol

 

[Matt71]

Hi all,
1. is it appropriate to save seats at a very crowded show?
2. is it appropriate to keep large bags,etc on seats taking up space?
3. how much "personal bubble" space shoule one expect in a crowded show?
4. If you like sitting on the end, should you have to scoot in to make more room?

1. If the person you are saving it for is IN the venue somewhere, it's fine to save a seat or two. Basically, if you arrived together you should be able to sit together. In other circumstances, it's ok to save a seat until someone else needs it. People who made the effort to show up on time for the show should always get a seat over someone that didn't bother to show up on time. For the record, showing up at the last minute for a show with the expectation of having a seat saved for you is just rude.

2. Saving a seat with a bag or a coat is fine, as long as the rules above are followed.

3. I expect to be able to sit down with my legs separated and my arms away from my body. Basically, I should be able to move my arms without elbowing the person next to me. One a related note, I always find it amazing how many seats magically appear when the PA requests people to slide over to make room. Last year at Fantasmic they did that 4 times and every time I thought, "there's no way we're gonna squeeze more people on this bench", but somehow we did and were still comfortable. One time we were able to nearly double the number of people on the bench.

4. If you want to sit on the end, show up later