Should we have a right to make passes at strangers?

[gina2000]

Crude, rude, and inappropriate. I find it offensive when a man does it to a woman and I find it equally offensive when a man does it to a man. Admiration is one thing....lewd comments are another.

 

[Robinrs]

I'm a straight woman. Does the fact that I'm bothered when a man makes a lewd comment at me mean I'm not comfortable in my sexuality?

No, come on.

 

[Magpie]

So is it fine if your son notices a girl's behind and comments on it if the girl doesn't hear? I guess I simply don't understand the difference.

I never really thought of that is objectification as just appreciating. I really need to get out more it seems. I've certainly been with some girls and seen someone attractive and made comments to them about it or vice versa.

It would be different if your son brought home a woman with big ****s and no brain and all he did was stare at her chest fixated. I believe that might be objectification.

I love people watching and I do it with my husband all the time, especially when we're dining out in a cafe. We comment on all sorts of people, discreetly.

So yes, I think what's rude is doing it to their face. They didn't ask you your opinion and the fact that it's "positive" makes no difference, imo.

After all, imagine walking past a person and commenting in their hearing, "Woah! That's some serious muffin top!" They're not going to be grateful. So why should they be any more grateful when you say, "Nice tush!"?

 

[lovemygoofy]

I had to read this article again because I'm talking about something entirely different. I'm talking about compliments and just observations.

I'm not talking about being nast and crude.

Dan made the first comment and when he received a comment back he didn't appreciate he fired his mouth again. When you make a comment you need to expect a reaction good, bad or ugly.

 

[LuvsDragonflies]

I think there is a difference between a "pass" and a "lewd remark" and it sounds like what he said is considered a lewd remark, on par with "I'd hit that".

It's just rude and insulting, and really, isn't it meant to be that way? Do you say that to be "nice"? No, you say it to be graphic about what you'd like to do. So, no, I don't think it's something you should be "allowed" to do.

In your OWN head, you should be able to censor yourself and not say something like that. Police yourself.

 

[FireDancer]

After all, imagine walking past a person and commenting in their hearing, "Woah! That's some serious muffin top!" They're not going to be grateful. So why should they be any more grateful when you say, "Nice tush!"?

Because people normally respond differently to a compliment (no matter how lewd) than they do to a put down.

Take the lewdness out of it. If someone says "you are pretty" you will respond a little differently than if they say "you are ugly", right?

 

[Magpie]

It has to do with the nature of the reaction. If you respond to a mere comment with violence I'd say you have some sort of issue.

I agree with you on that! There is NO way to defend what the thugs did.

 

[Magpie]

Because people normally respond differently to a compliment (no matter how lewd) than they do to a put down.

Take the lewdness out of it. If someone says "you are pretty" you will respond a little differently than if they say "you are ugly", right?

How can you take the lewdness out of it? It was a lewd comment (especially the "maybe later" follow up).

If Dan had said, "Good evening, sir. You're looking very fine today!" I'd have an entirely different opinion on his behaviour.

 

[gina2000]

It has to do with the nature of the reaction. If you respond to a mere comment with violence I'd say you have some sort of issue.

Is it any different if a man is lewd to another man's girlfriend/friend/aquaintance? Most men will respond angrily at the inappropriateness of a lewd comment made to a woman. Sometimes women will also respond. I don't like the violence either but it could easily be avoided if the remarker had kept thoughts to himself.

Public sexual remarks are inappropriate to ANY sex.

 

[Magpie]

Let me get this straight.

- Dan makes a crude remark to another guy about wanting to have sex with him.
- Dan's boyfriend is with him as our three other guys.
- Dan plays rugby but runs away when the guy yells at him.
- Dan goes to a place he thinks is safe but doesn't go in. Just stands outside.
- Other guys come and yell more stuff then they leave.
- Someone writes an article about the incident called "How safe is Ottawa?"

I would have to say sounds pretty safe. No one got hurt. But several people on both sides acted like jerks.

Do you guys not have enough news stories?

Apparently not. But according to what I've seen on CTV, our nation's capital is going to heck in a handbasket, what with all the drugs and crime and gangs running rampant... and the lowest rate of violent crime of any major city in Canada.

 

[SLK1]

First of all, this is only one side of the story. You might get a completely different take from the "cute guy".

Second, while I believe the "cute guy's" reaction was a bit much and he didn't need to get physical (if in fact that really happened), I don't believe Dan can honestly expect all men to be willing to accept and enjoy those types of "compliments" from other men. Obviously, a gay man accepts and is open to certain lifestyles, but you just can't expect others to appreciate them. I have many gay friends but I'm realistic enough to know that there are many people who do not approve of that lifestyle, so if you're going to encroach into someone else's territory, not knowing their feelings, you better be ready to accept the consequences. Again, those consequences don't need to be violent, but if you're going to throw out some lewd-ish comment, you better be ready to take a nasty comment right back...too bad if your feelings are hurt.

I'm glad no one got hurt, but hopefully Dan learned a lesson.

 

[sparklynails23]

Let me get this straight.

- Dan makes a crude remark to another guy about wanting to have sex with him.
- Dan's boyfriend is with him as our three other guys.
- Dan plays rugby but runs away when the guy yells at him.
- Dan goes to a place he thinks is safe but doesn't go in. Just stands outside.
- Other guys come and yell more stuff then they leave.
- Someone writes an article about the incident called "How safe is Ottawa?"

I would have to say sounds pretty safe. No one got hurt. But several people on both sides acted like jerks.

Do you guys not have enough news stories?

Maybe Dan and his friends were afraid the cute guys would run back to their cars and get their hockey sticks.

 

[hambirg]

Is it any different if a man is lewd to another man's girlfriend/friend/aquaintance? Most men will respond angrily at the inappropriateness of a lewd comment made to a woman. Sometimes women will also respond. I don't like the violence either but it could easily be avoided if the remarker had kept thoughts to himself.

Public sexual remarks are inappropriate to ANY sex.

These were my thoughts as well. Considering alcohol was involved, the outcome, most likely, would have been the same if he made these remarks to a woman standing with her friends and or boyfriend.

I think it was a stupid move on his part and maybe he should consider that it's not just a gay issue. Of course, the gay issue probably made it worse. But again, a group of drunk guys making lewd comments to a woman outside of some clubs, would run into the same problems if her boyfriend or male friends were anywhere within earshot.

 

[FireDancer]

How can you take the lewdness out of it? It was a lewd comment (especially the "maybe later" follow up).

If Dan had said, "Good evening, sir. You're looking very fine today!" I'd have an entirely different opinion on his behaviour.

I wasn't talking about the issue in the article. I was responding to your assertion that there is no difference between the reaction to a positive comment and a negative comment.

You said:

"After all, imagine walking past a person and commenting in their hearing, "Woah! That's some serious muffin top!" They're not going to be grateful. So why should they be any more grateful when you say, "Nice tush!"?"

The reason one would be more grateful for the latter is because it was a compliment, no matter how lewd, and the former is an insult.

Is it any different if a man is lewd to another man's girlfriend/friend/aquaintance? Most men will respond angrily at the inappropriateness of a lewd comment made to a woman. Sometimes women will also respond. I don't like the violence either but it could easily be avoided if the remarker had kept thoughts to himself.

If someone says something like that to a woman I'm with I don't get angry or respond with violence. I respond with humor. Think of something witty to say instead of getting all angry and the situation doesn't have to escalate to a fight. I have never and will never get in a fight over words no matter what they are. That just isn't me.

Maybe Dan should have been a little less overt but in the end no matter what was said violence was not the proper response.

 

[jrmasm]

First of all, this is only one side of the story. You might get a completely different take from the "cute guy".

Second, while I believe the "cute guy's" reaction was a bit much and he didn't need to get physical (if in fact that really happened), I don't believe Dan can honestly expect all men to be willing to accept and enjoy those types of "compliments" from other men. Obviously, a gay man accepts and is open to certain lifestyles, but you just can't expect others to appreciate them. I have many gay friends but I'm realistic enough to know that there are many people who do not approve of that lifestyle, so if you're going to encroach into someone else's territory, not knowing their feelings, you better be ready to accept the consequences. Again, those consequences don't need to be violent, but if you're going to throw out some lewd-ish comment, you better be ready to take a nasty comment right back...too bad if your feelings are hurt.

I'm glad no one got hurt, but hopefully Dan learned a lesson.

I didn't get the impression that Dan thought he did anything wrong.

 

[Andtototoo]

I somehow doubt that if Dan had been Danielle and made a comment like that (which frankly was no big deal), that the guy would have wanted to beat her up. It was all about cute guy being afraid that a gay guy commenting on him would mean that OMIGODTHEHORROR he might be gay too. And of course, the way you prove you're not gay is by beating a gay guy up.

 

[tlbwriter]

I agree it's silly to get into a fight over it. But I do have an issue with what Dan did. It's rude. He doesn't know the men and they've given no indication that they're interested in knowing him.

I'd be very disappointed in my son if he was going around saying to his buddies - in the woman's hearing! - "I'm not angry at that!" or "Yeah, I'd like a piece of that!" or "Nice tush on that, eh?" I'd hope I'd raised him better. Women are more than just "that", especially to their face.

Besides, that kind of hit-and-run comment is not really a pass. It's just objectification.

I agree with all of this. Dan was rude. That doesn't mean he should be physically assaulted, but he was rude. (And foolish, after it became clear the guy was angry, to keep it up.)

Actually, though, If I heard someone say "I'm not angry at that" I would assume I was hearing only one side of a conversation and I woud just ignore it because I have never heard that phrase used to hit on anyone before. I'm sort of surprised that this incident turned so ugly simply because it seems like such an innocuous phrase to have set off such an unpleasant situation.

Where you live, yes. Where I live, yes. But apparently in Ottawa it's got a very specific meaning and is not innocuous at all.

 

[Magpie]

I wasn't talking about the issue in the article. I was responding to your assertion that there is no difference between the reaction to a positive comment and a negative comment.

You said:

"After all, imagine walking past a person and commenting in their hearing, "Woah! That's some serious muffin top!" They're not going to be grateful. So why should they be any more grateful when you say, "Nice tush!"?"

The reason one would be more grateful for the latter is because it was a compliment, no matter how lewd, and the former is an insult.

I guess my thought is that a lewd comment made to a stranger (as opposed to a sincere compliment) is always an insult. Lewd remarks certainly don't show respect and admiration, so I don't consider them "compliments". And I don't see why anyone should be required to feel grateful for a lewd remark.

Now, lewd comments made to friends and lovers can be all in fun. But that's something entirely different.

If someone says something like that to a woman I'm with I don't get angry or respond with violence. I respond with humor. Think of something witty to say instead of getting all angry and the situation doesn't have to escalate to a fight. I have never and will never get in a fight over words. That just isn't me.

I completely agree! (Although not everyone agrees with my definition of "witty".)

 

[Magpie]

I somehow doubt that if Dan had been Danielle and made a comment like that (which frankly was no big deal), that the guy would have wanted to beat her up. It was all about cute guy being afraid that a gay guy commenting on him would mean that OMIGODTHEHORROR he might be gay too. And of course, the way you prove you're not gay is by beating a gay guy up.

I think you're right. There's a double standard for male and female behaviour. Girls are also allowed to smack their boyfriends around and many people think it's harmless.

But if the cute guy had been a cute GIRL, then things might also have gone rather badly for Dan that night.

 

[NotUrsula]

I don't enjoy lewd comments directed at me by a stranger on the street, but I don't consider them fighting words, either.

Women have known for centuries that the proper response to such a comment is no response at all -- not a word, not a wince, not a gesture. You just act like you didn't hear it, and that takes all the power out of it. Men have generally not learned this lesson properly, as being on the receiving end of sexual commentary on the street is largely a new phenomenon for them, relatively speaking.

My reaction to ANYONE who implies that they find me attractive is a certain amount of feeling flattered, but I have the sense not to react to it in any way if I don't want to deal with the question of whether the admiration is mutual. That is how it is done.

Dan needs to learn better manners, but the object of his admiration needs to get over himself.