Should we "defund" NPR?

[tvguy]

NPR should not be punished by having their funding cut.
Juan Williams just got a $2 million job offer, so he probably should donate $100 of that back to NPR. It didn't harm him, it helped him.
Clearly it was a bonehead decision by Vivian Schiller. It has exposed NPR to ridicule, and done harm to the organization and degraded their product. Clearly she should be fired too. But don't punish all the hard working people who work at NPR because the person at the top made a mistake..

 

[rie'smom]

Why would a human's heart race because someone in Arab dress takes a seat next to them on a plane? What about Arab dress would make one nervous?

If it was George Clooney taking that seat...then I could understand the heart racing.

See the post below:

9/11

Thank-you.

 

[châteaux]

Pretty much anytime someone starts out with "I'm not a bigot..." usually means that he/she is going to talk about his/her bigoted tendencies. If he would have ended it with "it's wrong for me to do that", etc. that would have been better.

It's one thing to own up to one's inner bigotries, but it's another to try to justify them.

I support NPR's decision to fire him.

 

[mouseforcemom]

I haven't read the whole thread, so perhaps this has been addressed, but I have to roll my eyes every time I hear someone say we need to have "an honest discussion on race matters in this country."

Ummmm......No, we don't. Because the "honest" discussion only runs ONE way. If you are on the "wrong" side and say the "wrong" thing, you'll find yourself unemployed and possibly villified. We can only "honestly" discuss it if we say PC things. The Juan Williams matter just illustrates that.

He only said what most Americans probably feel on a gut level. I did not feel the same way when I saw Muslims on a plane the day BEFORE 9/11 as I would have the day AFTER 9/11 and for very good reason. He didn't say he became nervous when he saw Muslims anyplace, anytime. He mentioned it in the context of air travel, and considering the 9/11 attacks, the fear is understandable. We still retain basic instincts to protect ourselves. He was HONESTLY owning up to a less than PC feeling when he sees a group of Muslims on a plane. How can we address that fear if we won't even admit it out loud?

No, let's just all keep silent and pretend that none of us, ever, ever, ever would be the teeniest bit nervous if we saw a group of Muslims on the plane with us. Sorry, I have to call B.S. on that.

This. Perfectly stated. And what I have been thinking all day.

 

[CPT Tripss]

9/11

Y'all might want to worry about the guy who has short hair and is clean cut.

4/19

 

[rie'smom]

Y'all might want to worry about the guy who has short hair and is clean cut.

4/19

The thread is about the NPR incident. Seeing someone in a keffiyeh on a plane brings back memories of 911.
No one is saying that they don't worry about others being terrorists.

 

[hambirg]

Well, actually, my money was on the executives at Fox. Keeping this story alive would attract more attention to the new show that they are creating for Williams. (Whatever else you can say about Fox, one thing is for sure: they have a very strong profit-driven culture. You don't survive working for Murdoch if you don't buy into that.)

I'm not sure how Soros might profit from having NPR accused of racial bias and censorship? That doesn't seem very logical to me.

Do I think the powers that be are high-fiving at Fox right now? Absolutely! I'm just not sure they orchestrated this whole thing.

I don't trust Soros at all. How does he profit? Well, first and foremost, he is a currency speculator.

 

[WDSearcher]

9/11

None of the 9/11 terrorists were dressed in traditional Muslim attire, were they? They were all slacks, shirts, jackets. Good ol' "normal American" clothes. In fact ... I don't think ANY of the people who have been identified as having carried out terrorist acts in the name of Islam in the US have been dressed in traditional Muslim attire. (At least, I don't remember seeing any.) The part of the equation that people seem to be missing is that most terrorists who actually get away with anything are the ones that "look just like the rest of us" (whoever 'us' is ...).

The guy DRESSED like a Muslim seems to be far less likely to be a terrorist than the guy who's trying NOT to look like a Muslim.

 

[rie'smom]

None of the 9/11 terrorists were dressed in traditional Muslim attire, were they? They were all slacks, shirts, jackets. Good ol' "normal American" clothes. In fact ... I don't think ANY of the people who have been identified as having carried out terrorist acts in the name of Islam in the US have been dressed in traditional Muslim attire. (At least, I don't remember seeing any.) The part of the equation that people seem to be missing is that most terrorists who actually get away with anything are the ones that "look just like the rest of us" (whoever 'us' is ...).

The guy DRESSED like a Muslim seems to be far less likely to be a terrorist than the guy who's trying NOT to look like a Muslim.

Correct but when I and others see Muslims dressed in traditional garb it brings up 911.
When you see a hot dog bun, doesn't it make you think hot dog?
Do you never ever think about 911 when you see someone in Arab attire?

 

[LiberalPrincess]

1.8 million from Soros.

So, people are outraged that Juan Williams supposedly doesn't have the right to free speech, but Soros does not have the right to donate money where he desires? That seems odd. Almost as odd as the fact that many of the people suddenly supporting Juan Williams for his comments were the same ones calling for the head of Helen Thomas on a platter for her comments. And Octavia Nasr. And Rick Sanchez. I guess there are some groups about whom bigoted comments can be made, but not others. Freedom of speech when it is convenient, it seems.

 

[hambirg]

So, people are outraged that Juan Williams supposedly doesn't have the right to free speech, but Soros does not have the right to donate money where he desires? That seems odd. Almost as odd as the fact that many of the people suddenly supporting Juan Williams for his comments were the same ones calling for the head of Helen Thomas on a platter for her comments. And Octavia Nasr. And Rick Sanchez. I guess there are some groups about whom bigoted comments can be made, but not others. Freedom of speech when it is convenient, it seems.

I don't think donating money is a constitutionally protected right.

And I think freedom of speech applies to everyone. . .so not sure how your comment applies.

I also think NPR had the right to fire Williams. I think it was a bad choice and now I think they will have to deal with the ramifications. Which is fine by me.

 

[NMAmy]

Do you never ever think about 911 when you see someone in Arab attire?

No, but then again, I live in a state with a large Arab-American population. Don't fly out of Detroit.

 

[Geoff_M]

So, people are outraged that Juan Williams supposedly doesn't have the right to free speech, but Soros does not have the right to donate money where he desires?

Sure he does, but we're free to raise our eyebrows when a guy that stated that his goal is to reshape our political landscape in one particular direction donates a 7-figure amount to a news organization.

Almost as odd as the fact that many of the people suddenly supporting Juan Williams for his comments were the same ones calling for the head of Helen Thomas on a platter for her comments. And Octavia Nasr. And Rick Sanchez. I guess there are some groups about whom bigoted comments can be made, but not others. Freedom of speech when it is convenient, it seems.

Straw man alert! It ain't about "freedom of speech"... all four people you cited are still free to say what they want. Ditto for the notion that "if you fire one, you gotta fire them all" assertion... unless you think "what" they said doesn't really matter.

 

[Geoff_M]

None of the 9/11 terrorists were dressed in traditional Muslim attire, were they?

True, but even Juan Williams (I believe) said that such initial feelings were irrational.... which is what makes the firing even more ironic.

 

[LiberalPrincess]

I don't think donating money is a constitutionally protected right.

And I think freedom of speech applies to everyone. . .so not sure how your comment applies.

I also think NPR had the right to fire Williams. I think it was a bad choice and now I think they will have to deal with the ramifications. Which is fine by me.

Actually, that is a source of debate. A major case (Buckley v. Valeo, I believe) and many courts have held that donating money is in fact protected as a part of freedom of speech. That is what has affected some of the campaign finance reform laws. My comment applies to the hypocrisy of many that thought Helen Thomas should be fired for her comments about Jews, yet suddenly wave the First Amendment like a banner when it is bigoted comments about Arabs.

As to whether Arab "garb" reminds me of 9/11? Not even slightly. Not anymore than seeing a priest wearing a collar reminds me of pedophilia. Small groups of bad people within a religion can do horrible things -- it should not reflect on a religion as a whole.

 

[LiberalPrincess]

Sure he does, but we're free to raise our eyebrows when a guy that stated that his goal is to reshape our political landscape in one particular direction donates a 7-figure amount to a news organization.

Straw man alert! It ain't about "freedom of speech"... all four people you cited are still free to say what they want. Ditto for the notion that "if you fire one, you gotta fire them all" assertion... unless you think "what" they said doesn't really matter.

And the rest of us are free to raise our eyebrows when a news commentator makes a bigoted remark, right? If it isn't about Freedom of Speech, then what is this arguing about? Why any argument at all? I assume you believe that a company can fire anyone they choose for breaking their contract, which Juan Williams did repeatedly.

 

[ManMythLegend]

None of the 9/11 terrorists were dressed in traditional Muslim attire, were they? They were all slacks, shirts, jackets. Good ol' "normal American" clothes. In fact ... I don't think ANY of the people who have been identified as having carried out terrorist acts in the name of Islam in the US have been dressed in traditional Muslim attire. (At least, I don't remember seeing any.) The part of the equation that people seem to be missing is that most terrorists who actually get away with anything are the ones that "look just like the rest of us" (whoever 'us' is ...).

The guy DRESSED like a Muslim seems to be far less likely to be a terrorist than the guy who's trying NOT to look like a Muslim.

Doesn't matter to me. 9/11 carried out by Muslims. Muslims have clothing that can easily be identified. Therefore if I'm sitting on a plane next to someone that is a Muslim, I know they pray to the same God that was also prayed to by people that killed Americans and still to this day wish the death of America. Makes me very uneasy...

What's even more sad is that most of the time they have small children with them. Normally that would mean I have nothing to worry about but I know some Muslims would have no problems at all sacrificing their own children to inflict pain on America. Sad, very sad.

 

[mouseforcemom]

And the rest of us are free to raise our eyebrows when a news commentator makes a bigoted remark, right? If it isn't about Freedom of Speech, then what is this arguing about? Why any argument at all? I assume you believe that a company can fire anyone they choose for breaking their contract, which Juan Williams did repeatedly.

My eyebrows are raised that Nina Totenberg didn't even get a slap on the wrist when she wished AIDS on Senator Jesse Helm's Grandchildren. Do I like Sen. Jesse Helms, nope. But to wish AIDS on he and his Grandchildren and not do a darn thing about it? Urm, yeah I would say that according to Schiller "Controversial opinions should not come from NPR reporters or news analysts." If it's good for the goose it's good for the gander.

Oh, and here's the link and she is clearly identified as working for NPR.


What this comes down to, regardless of what was said (Personal Fear vs. Personal Opinion) is that according to NPR some things are evidently acceptable behavior (the above link) & others (appearing on The Factor, voicing a non-PC fear) are not. My belief on this is that he basically provided them a way to oust him thinking they would be able to just walk away. They probably have not liked him appearing on The Factor for a LONG time, this just became a convenient excuse for letting him go. But, it does start bringing to light how some articles of their "Contract" are enforced for some and not for others.

 

[LiberalPrincess]

My eyebrows are raised that Nina Totenberg didn't even get a slap on the wrist when she wished AIDS on Senator Jesse Helm's Grandchildren. Do I like Sen. Jesse Helms, nope. But to wish AIDS on his Grandchildren and not do a darn thing about it? Urm, yeah I would say that according to Schiller "Controversial opinions should not come from NPR reporters or news analysts." If it's good for the goose it's good for the gander.

Oh, and here's the link and she is clearly identified as working for NPR.


What this comes down to, regardless of what was said (Personal Fear vs. Personal Opinion) is that according to NPR some things are evidently acceptable behavior (the above link) & others (appearing on The Factor, voicing a non-PC fear) are not. My belief on this is that he basically provided them a way to oust him thinking they would be able to just walk away. They probably have not liked him appearing on The Factor for a LONG time, this just became a convenient excuse for letting him go. But, it does start bringing to light how some articles of their "Contract" are enforced for some and not for others.

I agree with part of what you say, except -- life is not fair. I can find very few situations where everyone is treated equally. Parts of contracts are often enforced while others or not. That is at the discretion of a company. In athletics (Ben Roethlisberger, anyone?), politics, business and on and on. Gosh, that stinks. But it is not just NPR, check the comments on Helen Thomas's remarks, and tell me if Williams and Thomas were treated equally by the rest of the press. I agree that NPR had been looking for a reason to oust him. However, ever since his sexual harassment days at the Post, and his defense of Clarence Thomas while it was going on, I have wanted that as well.

 

[mouseforcemom]

I agree with part of what you say, except -- life is not fair. I can find very few situations where everyone is treated equally. Parts of contracts are often enforced while others or not. That is at the discretion of a company. In athletics (Ben Roethlisberger, anyone?), politics, business and on and on. Gosh, that stinks. But it is not just NPR, check the comments on Helen Thomas's remarks, and tell me if Williams and Thomas were treated equally by the rest of the press. I agree that NPR had been looking for a reason to oust him. However, ever since his sexual harassment days at the Post, and his defense of Clarence Thomas while it was going on, I have wanted that as well.

Racial & Religious profiling isn't fair either, but it happens too.