Should this book be banned?

[BoyLovesBuzz]

Originally posted by wvrevy

And as for military records, am I honestly hearing a supporter of the draft-dodger in the white house...that valiant protector of Alabama from the Vietcong (when he could be bothered to show up)...complaining about someone not releasing their military records ? That's rich...lol [/B]

Thats funny, when I first read this, I forgot what side you were on and thought you were talking about Bill Clinton, and mistakingly put Ala instread of Ark.

 

[bsnyder]

Originally posted by wvrevy
Kerry has released nearly ALL his records...

Why doesn't he release ALL of them?

 

[peachgirl]

Originally posted by bsnyder
Why doesn't he release ALL of them?

What specifically do you want him to release?

I know, maybe he's just like Bush and they can't find them!



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[bsnyder]

Originally posted by peachgirl
What specifically do you want him to release?

I know, maybe he's just like Bush and they can't find them!



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Peachgirl, there's a form he can fill out that will release everything. So far, all he's done is selectively released and published some of the documents on his website.

Why not release all of them? If you assume that they'll show the SwiftVets are all liars, why not just do it and be done with this subject and get on to the more important stuff?

 

[peachgirl]

So, where would I go to get ALL of Bush's military records?

And, unless you can tell me what it is that isn't released then I don't see what your gripe is.

Btw, has Bush signed this release that lets everything out?

why not just do it and be done with this subject and get on to the more important stuff?

Who are you kidding? It wouldn't matter what any records of Kerry's show, this isn't going to stop until those who are orchestrating this smear campaign are, down to the last piece of scum, singled out and proven to be the liar that they are.

I don't know IF there are any records Kerry has not released. I do know that the records that the WP fought to get released are proving the SBVT to be liars.

If there are records that are not released, perhaps those that want to see them should do just what the Post did.
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[DawnCt1]

Originally posted by peachgirl
Who are you kidding? It wouldn't matter what any records of Kerry's show, this isn't going to stop until those who are orchestrating this smear campaign are, down to the last piece of scum, singled out and proven to be the liar that they are.

Why are the highly decorated Swift Vet volunteers "scum" but Kerry is a highly decorated war hero. My DH was at his Special Forces reunion in Las Vegas in June and there are many vets against Kerry. My DH can't imagine a commander who would leave his men behind unless they were physically incapable of command. That doesn't seem to be the case with Kerry's wounds.
That's enough for many vets right there.

 

[peachgirl]

Why are the highly decorated Swift Vet volunteers "scum" but Kerry is a highly decorated war hero.

Because they are willing to trash a fellow veteran, who by all available RECORDS, including their own, earned every medal he got, all because they didn't like what he said when he returned home.

My DH can't imagine a commander who would leave his men behind unless they were physically incapable of command

Yeah, well can he imagine a guy who would use his daddy's money and influence to get out of serving at all?

Really, the hypocrisy is amazing. Bush gets out of serving at all and you want to hold it against Kerry because he took a perfectly honorable chance to go home after earning three purple hearts, a silver and a bronze star.

Every bit of this sleazy crap is being orchestrated for one reason...Bush has no record to run on. He can't stand toe to toe with Kerry on the issues any more than he can on their military records.
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[bsnyder]

Originally posted by peachgirl

Every bit of this sleazy crap is being orchestrated for one reason...Bush has no record to run on. He can't stand toe to toe with Kerry on the issues any more than he can on their military records.

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No! The reason this is happening is because John Kerry has made his Vietnam service the central point of his campaign. If he hadn't brought it up, most people, including me, would be saying "So what" to the Swiftvets charges.

 

[peachgirl]

Originally posted by bsnyder
No! The reason this is happening is because John Kerry has made his Vietnam service the central point of his campaign. If he hadn't brought it up, most people, including me, would be saying "So what" to the Swiftvets charges.

Oh, I see. Because John Kerry is proud of his service to his country and because his record runs circles around Bush's, people are allowed to lie and distort that record?

Nice....

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[DawnCt1]

Originally posted by peachgirl
1.Because they are willing to trash a fellow veteran, who by all available RECORDS, including their own, earned every medal he got, all because they didn't like what he said when he returned home.



2.Yeah, well can he imagine a guy who would use his daddy's money and influence to get out of serving at all?

Really, the hypocrisy is amazing. Bush gets out of serving at all and you want to hold it against Kerry because he took a perfectly honorable chance to go home after earning three purple hearts, a silver and a bronze star.

3.Every bit of this sleazy crap is being orchestrated for one reason...Bush has no record to run on. He can't stand toe to toe with Kerry on the issues any more than he can on their military records.

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1. Kerry's accuses his fellow soldiers of serious war crimes of which he has no evidence, and he gets a pass but the SwiftVets, whose story has not changed, (Kerry's keeps changing) are all liars?? I don't think so.

2. The National Guard is not only service, it is honorable service. He was there long enough to learn how to fly a jet. That horse has been beaten to death. As far as using purple hearts for superficial wounds, one of which took him out of duty for a day, to buy a ticket home. That is leaving your men behind, no matter how you want to color it.

3. Bush has no record to run on? Are you kidding? He has been Commander in Chief for four years. That's a good record.

Kerry should have focused his campaign on his Senate record of 19 years, but he chose to make 4 months of Viet Nam duty as a reason to elect him president. That was his choice. He invited the examination so he shouldn't complain when he gets one. His dedication to the service men and women became abundantly clear to me when he cancelled his appearance at Westover AFB to bid my brother's Special Forces unit goodbye, at the last minute. Why? Because the press was barred from the base and Live Shot Kerry couldn't be there without press coverage, along with his pal Teddy.

3.

 

[bsnyder]

Originally posted by peachgirl
Oh, I see. Because John Kerry is proud of his service to his country and because his record runs circles around Bush's, people are allowed to lie and distort that record?

Nice....

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Of course people shouldn't lie and distort that record. If the allegations made by the Swiftvets are proven to be false, people will discount them and it should have a negative affect on the Bush campaign.

But should the record be completely off-limits to investigation by neutral parties? That's what you seem to be implying.

 

[DawnCt1]

Why isn't Kerry using this information in his campaign??

www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38738

 

[shortbun]

Originally posted by peachgirl
Oh, I see. Because John Kerry is proud of his service to his country and because his record runs circles around Bush's, people are allowed to lie and distort that record?

Nice....

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What she said.

I think this is a non issue. The lies have been told by the Swift Boat guys(guys-lies, there has to be a poem in here somewhere)
and the damage is done. McCain knows about this type of thing
all too well. Had Bush not done exactly what his people have been accused of now already, maybe he/they would not be under such scrutiny. Besides, who's gonna read this trash anyway, people who are already voting for Bush. A non issue as I said.
That's the last thing I'm saying about this.

 

[sgtdisney]

Why is it that when Clinton was running, his military record had no bearing at all on his leadership abilities in the eyes of the democratic party voters, and now it means so much? Really I am just curious. You keep hearing about Bush's record from the democratic party and them slamming his record, where was their disdain for Clinton's?

Personally I don't think anyone's military record has any bearing on their ability to be President. I would like to know where the candidate stands on the issue. Has Kerry decided where he stands yet?

Oh and to answer the original question, no this book should not be banned. No book should be banned, just as Moore's movie shouldn't be banned. If you want to boycott one or the other, go for it.

 

[peachgirl]

Kerry's accuses his fellow soldiers of serious war crimes of which he has no evidence,

Lie #1...He did no such thing.

From the congressional transcripts:

It is impossible to describe to you exactly what did happen in Detroit, the emotions in the room, the feelings of the men who were reliving their experiences in Vietnam, but they did. They relived the absolute horror of what this country, in a sense, made them do.They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country.

He made no "accusations", he was simply telling the stories the veterans themselves had told.

And most certainly you wouldn't argue about the accuracy of the freeper's would you?

http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/index.php?topic=Testimony

The National Guard is not only service, it is honorable service.

If your husband is a Vietnam vet, then he knows how things were during the Vietnam era. The NG became a haven for the rich and powerful to get out of serving. Those without contacts couldn't get in and that's a simple fact. The NG of Vietnam is not the NG of today.

From Colin Powell:

I am angry that so many of the sons of the powerful and well-placed... managed to wangle slots in Reserve and National Guard units...Of the many tragedies of Vietnam, this raw class discrimination strikes me as the most damaging to the ideal that all Americans are created equal and owe equal allegiance to their country." (Colin Powell’s autobiography, My American Journey, p. 148)

He has been Commander in Chief for four years. That's a good record.

I see, so his campaign theme is " Since I'm already President, I should be President again"???


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[DawnCt1]

Originally posted by shortbun
What she said.

I think this is a non issue. The lies have been told by the Swift Boat guys(guys-lies, there has to be a poem in here somewhere)
and the damage is done. McCain knows about this type of thing
all too well. Had Bush not done exactly what his people have been accused of now already, maybe he/they would not be under such scrutiny. Besides, who's gonna read this trash anyway, people who are already voting for Bush. A non issue as I said.
That's the last thing I'm saying about this.

Again, they don't seem to be lies. The book has been difficult to get in the brick and mortar stores, either they are selling out or have been conveniently under ordered. No matter, Amazon has been busily shipping them out. Its not a NON ISSUE because Kerry has made it an issue. Further more, he is making it a bigger issue by calling on the publisher to withdraw the book. Now lets all just imagine the hue and cry if President Bush called on Joe Wilson's book, which is proven to be a pack of lies to be "withdrawn". We would have pictures of nazis burning books from the 1940's with the head line, NOT AGAIN!!!

 

[Lanshark]

Micheal Moores movie should not be banned?

This book should not be banned?

How could anyone argue to ban one and not the other?

According to supporting sides each is gospel and according to opposing sides they are filled with lies.

 

[nuke]

Why don't they concentrate on the war that is going on now instead of the war that happened 30 years ago?

 

[orvilleair]

Books shouldn't be banned. In this case of this book, I'm sure the publisher is making $$$$$ just from the buzz that Kerry and the media generated.

There are inaccuracies on both sides that can be resolved with direct debate between the Swift Boat Veterans and Kerry. The swifters need to address their changing views of 2004 vs. 1968. Elliot has praised Kerry in writing. Thurow(sp) received his bronze star from the same mission as Kerry etc....

If I was a veteran, I wouldn't vote for either one of these candidates. I share some posters views of the NG as being a haven for the rich, and Kerry dug his own hole immediately after Vietnam. Don't ban the book. Just dispute its accuracy.

 

[DawnCt1]

Originally posted by nuke
Why don't they concentrate on the war that is going on now instead of the war that happened 30 years ago?

I guess you would have to ask the fine senator from Massachusetts that. He doesn't seem to want to talk about his senate record either.