Should the Pope apologize??

[DawnCt1]

I'm curious Dawn, does calling Muslims savages help make the world a better place?

I called the rioting Muslims savages, not all Muslims savages. It may not make the world a better place but provides for an accurate description of a volitile group of people.

 

[DawnCt1]

If you are infering that all Muslims are savages, that apology should come from you.

You quoted the quote and then speculated on an inferance. Let the apology begin with you.

 

[Uncle Remus]

It makes no difference. Pope Benedict XVI is a former professor and renowned theologian, one of the top influential people in the world before becoming an actual World Leader - no one's more qualified to speak on religion and leadership than he is. How do we know these particular "faithful" weren't waiting for some opportunity (in this case basically two words out of his 3700) to call for his death? We don't.

Didn't want you to think I was ignoring you...I don't understand what you're talkin' about? And quite frankly, don't care.

 

[Saxsoon]

Didn't want you to think I was ignoring you...I don't understand what you're talkin' about? And quite frankly, don't care.

I think what they were saying is that Believers are Thinkers too, some are the smartest in the world. One of the leading scientists on the Human Genome Project is a Christain and wrote a book on why science and God can work together.

Personally some friends of mine consider themselves thinkers and not believers, and I believe them to be utter morons.

 

[louie694]

absolutely fantastic to see a world leader speak the truth and not back down to the barbarians!!
no no no the pope must not apologize!
the world must see the islamists for the anti-civilization force that they are.
hoorah for the pope!!!

 

[fabshelly]

"The religion of peace".

Do you also think all Christians bomb abortion clinics? Same thing.

 

[yeartolate]

You quoted the quote and then speculated on an inferance. Let the apology begin with you.

Dawn, multiple posters infered the same thing from your statement - you have a history of bigoted statements so it was not that big of a leap. Please explain your savage staement fully as to how it relates to the Pope's comments.


So, do you agree that most Muslims are honoralble people ?

 

[Galahad]

Haven't ready any posts since yesterday but I just read the Pope's entire speech. Indeed, it was an academic speech that quoted an ancient emperor. It didn't seem to be trying to even make a case that Byzantium was correct - and the Pope wasn't besmirching Islam. So I still say that he showed a monumental lack of understanding of the modern Islamic world by including that quote (like the cartoon issue last year), and he should most definitely apologize. But it looks like the "Islamic street" is offering evidence for Byzantium's position which is counter production for everybody.

Pope Urban II at the time of the first Crusade said, for example:

"The noble race of Franks must come to the aid their fellow Christians in the East. The infidel Turks are advancing into the heart of Eastern Christendom; Christians are being oppressed and attacked; churches and holy places are being defiled. Jerusalem is groaning under the Saracen yoke. The Holy Sepulchre is in Moslem hands and has been turned into a mosque. Pilgrims are harassed and even prevented from access to the Holy Land.

"The West must march to the defense of the East. All should go, rich and poor alike. The Franks must stop their internal wars and squabbles. Let them go instead against the infidel and fight a righteous war.

.

It does seem that the equivalent of this would be if an Islamic cleric were making an academic lecture and included the above quote and suddenly Christians across the world started burning Mosques.

So 1) The Pope should apologize
2) He was not making a bigoted statement any more than any professor of religious studies would be making a bigoted statement by discussing the numerous problems of gigantic proportion from Christianity's past
3) His biggest mistake was playing into the hands of modern day opportunists.

 

[declansdad]

I called the rioting Muslims savages, not all Muslims savages. It may not make the world a better place but provides for an accurate description of a volitile group of people.

If you had worded it that way when you started the thread you may have created less problems.

 

[declansdad]

No it won't but appeasement and looking the other way seems to work, at least temporarily.

That's what it seems some on this board would do. Everytime this subject gets brought up, I always see the same replies from the left wingers on this site and those of us who are trully worried about this problem (like me) are accused of wanting to wipe an entire religion out or some other nonsense.

I didn't say that we should look the other way. I don't think caling people names help any situation.

 

[dcentity2000]

We're not the savages. Apology due from both sides.



Rich::

 

[Charade]

I just want to know how she thinks this helps? I think it is a fair question.

Don't you think it should be a given that when people say things you don't like or agree with there's no justification for violent actions and death threats?

I'm sorry if the word "savage" offends them. Their actions are clear. They are acting like savages. So if the shoe fits...

 

[Planogirl]

I don't think that an apology is in order here. As a statesman, I think that the Pope should choose his words a bit more carefully though. What good does it do to stir up a hornets' nest?

 

[DawnCt1]

Dawn, multiple posters infered the same thing from your statement - you have a history of bigoted statements so it was not that big of a leap. Please explain your savage staement fully as to how it relates to the Pope's comments.


So, do you agree that most Muslims are honoralble people ?

If multiple posters inferred the same thing it is no doubt because they have their own preformed opinions about my opinions. Again, I don't know how I can be more clear; if people of a certain persuasion around theworld are in the streets burning churches,screaming, threatening the pope's life, causing absolute mayhem and if an Arab op ed piece is stating that his comments "may lead to war", tell me WHO YOU think the savages are. I don't think its the Pope! And yes, I do think most Muslims are honorable people. I think most Muslims however are silent people and need to be much more vocal about the crazies that represent an estimated 5 to 10% of their population.

 

[DawnCt1]

Do you also think all Christians bomb abortion clinics? Same thing.

Not the same thing. When abortion clinics are bombed, which BTW is a rare occurance, the Christian community stands together and condemns the violence. Church leaders condemn the violence. Society as a whole rejects the actions. Everyday suicide bombers take to the street, threats of terror attacks are a contant concern, and yet one rarely hears Muslim clerics calling out for order or condemning the acts as against the Koran. The only thing I am hearing the Muslim leadership say quite vocally btw, is the 'Pope should apologize".

 

[DawnCt1]

Don't you think it should be a given that when people say things you don't like or agree with there's no justification for violent actions and death threats?

I'm sorry if the word "savage" offends them. Their actions are clear. They are acting like savages. So if the shoe fits...

I guess this is the type of "cultural diversity" that we should be more "tolerant" of. What Islam needs is a reformation. They are several centuries late.

 

[eclectics]

[/B]


Thank you for answering a legit question with honesty. I may not agree with everything you wrote but it was a damn good post, imo. At least you took the time to think and reply respectfully and I appreciate that. Too bad UR didn't do the same and I guess it's easier to throw bombs then to answer the question.

Thank you.

You're welcome. Just wanted to add something I forgot last night; my confusion about the conservatives apparent trepidation about our safety should we get a Democratic regime. Is this just political posturing or are you guys actually serious? Can you tell me with a straight face they you really believe Al Gore would have whimpered and hid under the desk after 9/11. Come on, he would have been in Afghanistan just as quick as Bush was and you guys know it. If you honestly think a Democrat isn't capable of keeping us safe, that's just wrong. Btw, UR is a very wise man indeed if you want to take the time to have a honest rapport with him. He does answer you, you just don't like the answer.

 

[DawnCt1]

You're welcome. Just wanted to add something I forgot last night; my confusion about the conservatives apparent trepidation about our safety should we get a Democratic regime. Is this just political posturing or are you guys actually serious? .

I am dead serious. I think that the Dems have been more interested in defeating President Bush than defeating the enemy. I think that they are more beholding to the concept of political correctness than the concept of doing what it takes to protect the country. With regard to Al Gore? A lot of democrats at the time were very relieved that he wasn't in the White House. I heard an audible sigh across the country and there were polls that confirmed that sentiment. With the shrill rhetoric that he has engaged in since, I don't think I am wrong in my assessment. When terrorists rights consume such a large part of the liberal dialog, I think they are on the wrong page. I haven't heard a single plan from Nancy Pelosi, et al. I hope the American people will recognize that when November rolls around.

 

[eclectics]

I am dead serious. I think that the Dems have been more interested in defeating President Bush than defeating the enemy. I think that they are more beholding to the concept of political correctness than the concept of doing what it takes to protect the country. With regard to Al Gore? A lot of democrats at the time were very relieved that he wasn't in the White House. I heard an audible sigh across the country and there were polls that confirmed that sentiment. With the shrill rhetoric that he has engaged in since, I don't think I am wrong in my assessment. When terrorists rights consume such a large part of the liberal dialog, I think they are on the wrong page. I haven't heard a single plan from Nancy Pelosi, et al. I hope the American people will recognize that when November rolls around.

Your response Dawn, was pretty much a given. I still wonder what the others honestly think.

 

[yeartolate]

If multiple posters inferred the same thing it is no doubt because they have their own preformed opinions about my opinions.

I don't buy that for a second. The Pope's quote (quote of quote really) was a general one against Islam. So if an apology was required (I am on the fence on whether he should) it should be towards Muslims in general. So why would I think your comment narrowly focused on just the terrorists ?

You have history with bait and switch with your comments and this is yet another example.