Should Students be required to perform "Community Service"?

[tvguy]

Schools do not exist for community service.

Yes, and community service is an education.

 

[Pigeon]

Everything in school is forced. I bet everyone one of us had to do something in school we would not have ever done if it hadn't been required. Math, science, english, PE, History, or community service. That's one of the reasons schools exist.

And to everyone who I disagree with who has posted here, a sincere thank you. While I may not agree with your opinions, your posts have been quite informative and educational.

No, while many things in school are forced, many other things are not. As an example, I've got a child who takes orchestra and chorus, while many of her peers get study halls. Every child is not forced to take orchestra if they aren't interested. There is no reason community service would need to be shoved down the throats of the unwilling.

 

[Pigeon]

Yes, and community service is an education.

I disagree completely. I do volunteer work along with my teenager. We do this willingly and we enjoy working with an animal rescue. It really isn't all that educational, beyond what any life experience provides. It is not the role of the school to mandate that kids get all life experiences and this is no different.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

But those students apply to college too - and likely need to make a well-rounded impression on applications even more than the seemingly privileged (yes, I know that's not what you said) students. If you want or need something bad enough, you find a way to make it happen.

But those students are entitled to an education. Why make it more difficult?

You say "find a way" if you "want it bad enough".

There are kids right now--who want it bad...but they are extremely limited in their means through no fault of their own.

 

[kaytieeldr]

OK then. Let the students do the Community Service during school hours. But first, please tell me what my child will learn if they volunteer at the animal shelter and remove poop from cages.

A question for all those that support Community Service under the guise of learning. Would you support making students work a certain number of hours at a part-time job as a requirement for graduation? They would learn many life lessons by having a job: pay rates, taxes, take home pay, showing up on time, savings, etc.

Ideally they'll learn more at an animal shelter than just how to clean poop: compassion, caring, what animal 'personalities' match best with what lifestyles, maybe even opt for a career working with animals...who wouldn't want a child working at Animal Kingdom or AKL/AKV ?

Despite the so-called economic recovery, jobs are still hard to find. The employment rate is stagnant and the unemployment rate crept up last week. Community Service opportunities at nonprofit agencies go begging, while paying jobs are hard to find. On the other hand, the responsibility learned with a Community Service position is a benefit when looking for a paying job; plus, many students aren't eligible for paid employment.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Wow, you did bring up an interesting point in support of my position. Community service is just like homework, done on your own time. And as with homework, it isn't always done at home. I've lost track of how many trips to the library, art museum, musical theater performances, etc. I had to shuttle my kids to for homework.

As for jobs, out here in California, the high schools going back to when I graduated back in 1975 had ROP (Regional Occupational Program), IWE (instruction work experience) and internships that are in reality, jobs for credit, not pay. Not sure if that is unique to California.

Only if volunteering to watch your sibling at home until mom/dad come home from work count as service.

I never had required trips anywhere in high school. I utilized the school library for my needs.

In Florida--I had co-workers who were on some type of vocational program. They did not go to school the entire day their senior year. They got out earlier and went to a job where they got paid. I am not familiar with any work for credit situations.

In college--I had required attendance at activities/events that were not during class hours. However--that was college...a voluntary endeavor and classes that I took were mostly of my choosing. So I had some control in whether or not I wanted to do coursework with mandatory requirements like that and planned accordingly as any adult would.


You are the second person that mentions attending performances...wouldn't that get expensive?

I would love to attend performances, but that gets cost prohibitive.

I used to take my children to the ones that were for school groups--and the schools that attended, did so as a field trip on a school day. Those were always optional. A student could not be forced to go if for whatever reason the parent did not wish to grant permission.

 

[declansdad]

Yes, and community service is an education.

It may be part of an education but it isn't part of the education provided by the school. The only way it should be part of a school's program is if it was to be an elective component and not forced on every student.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Ideally they'll learn more at an animal shelter than just how to clean poop: compassion, caring, what animal 'personalities' match best with what lifestyles, maybe even opt for a career working with animals...who wouldn't want a child working at Animal Kingdom or AKL/AKV ?

Despite the so-called economic recovery, jobs are still hard to find. The employment rate is stagnant and the unemployment rate crept up last week. Community Service opportunities at nonprofit agencies go begging, while paying jobs are hard to find. On the other hand, the responsibility learned with a Community Service position is a benefit when looking for a paying job; plus, many students aren't eligible for paid employment.

Trust me--i am not tooting Florida's horn or anything ...

I still haven't caught up to all of Virginia's requirements. I am most familiar with Florida since I had lived there for so long....

In Florida--kids can begin working as soon as age 14. Pretty much about when they start high school, give or take a few months. I *think* the law restricts it to only 4 hours a day and only weekends during the school year. I would have been eligible in 8th grade. I worked for a grocery store and they would have been able to be baggers whose responsibilities extended to sweeping floors and gathering carts and otherwise being helpful.

And I could argue that in a customer service position, one could learn empathy and compassion.

 

[hereyago]

I still haven't caught up to all of Virginia's requirements.

I have lived here since a kid, and I still don't know if they requirements for high school. they didn't when i went to a regular high school and magnet school. my friend was a candy striper at the hospital but that was more to look' good" for college.

I do know that on our school system's website: they do have a few listings (nothing saying YOU HAVE TO VOLUNTEER) for kids 14 and up for them to volunteer if they want. a couple hospitals(where they have to keep up their grades) to volunteer, at 15: volunteer at the living museum, many volunteer positions-taking care of the animals, etc. at 16 they can work at the local SPCA and there is one for cerebral palsy.

DD12 in a few years doing regular high school with a vet assistant class at a vocational school during 11th or 12th grade, so I do think that some of their "class" is there to get hands on training.

I have mixed emotions about schools making it a requirement: people say that schools should stay out of it, but i'm sorry, not every kid is "taught" at home to have empathy and compassion for others and that could really benefit them.
Now, if said schools were to ask students: hey do you volunteer for church, boy/girl scouts and then have those certain volunteer efforts go towards the requirement, that would be great.

a few nights ago on our local city channel(think of it like a hotel channel where it tells you about the surrounding areas)they had awards for the local students who demonstrated Community Services.

it was kind of funny because a 3rd grader was someone "everyone could trust" and he was in boy scouts. ok boy scouts volunteer but the everyone could trust thing was just over the top and had nothing to do with what the award was about.

another was: a 4th grader was on the school safety patrol and was a junior master gardeneri i'm not knocking a kid for a green thumb, but really, nothing to do with community service.

So i felt like those examples were just a bunch of poop.
DD12 just got back from a youth group retreat-like a habitat for humanity type deal. and even with that they made a meal for the homeless shelter there. this was her second time going. but i'm not about to call the school system and nominate her: i'd rather her want to do it instead of doing it to "get" accolades for it.

WHen disney had the give a day get a day: we volunteered at a local food bank. now, we had donated before but we really didn't know all the different programs they had until we went for the GAD promotion and that really opened up both of us to continue and see what other places we could both help.

 

[pyrxtc]

our high school has one, public. My DD just starts this year there but will have her hours done during baseball season next spring.

 

[Chernab0g]

Some of the sheeple in this thread are quite a wonder. They be quite content living in Mao's Red China. "But, but, but..forcing kids to do mandatory volunteering is for the good of the Empire ! There is no way their parents could actually teach them that."

 

[Chernab0g]

Yes, absolutely. Giving back to society makes for a well rounded person.

We have many "well rounded" people in the US. They can be found at KFC, Taco Bell, McDonald's, Golden Corral.....

 

[PaulaSB12]

But those students apply to college too - and likely need to make a well-rounded impression on applications even more than the seemingly privileged (yes, I know that's not what you said) students. If you want or need something bad enough, you find a way to make it happen.

A kid that has to work as well as go to school to help support him/herself or their family
- A kids that has to go home and take care of siblings (make dinner, help them with their homework, etc)


So for kids who are working to support their family, its ok not to just in case you go to college? Also if they are having to take care of their siblings what happens to them while they are "volunteering"

 

[FireDancer]

A kid that has to work as well as go to school to help support him/herself or their family
- A kids that has to go home and take care of siblings (make dinner, help them with their homework, etc)


So for kids who are working to support their family, its ok not to just in case you go to college? Also if they are having to take care of their siblings what happens to them while they are "volunteering"

While I am completely against forced volunteering I think it would only work in a district where these kinds of things aren't really an issue. There are school districts around me that I would bet have many kids like you described and others where I would be shocked to find any or more then a hand full.

That is important to remember in this argument...I mean discussion. If you are in a district where you are happy just to have a 50% graduation rate why would you make it any harder? In a district that is more middle-class or affluent the priorities change and maybe it is less of a hindrance.

Regardless, I still say this is a matter for the parents and not the schools IMO.

 

[cinabug]

If requiring community service is acceptable, what about requiring community donations? Either in lieu of the service, or on its own merit? If we can mandate donating time, what about mandating students to donate money?

Just a question.

While incomes vary widely, we all have 24 hours in our day. We may choose to fill those hours in many different ways, and some of us may have more pressing obligations, but we do all start off with a level playing field. If you require kids to commit a certain amount of their time, you're asking the same for everyone. If you ask kids to donate money, you're asking much more from some than others.

I haven't read the whole thread, but for me mandatory community service isn't as much about instilling the habit of volunteering, as it is about developing the skills of work. Identifying needs in the community, researching options, trying out different roles to see what you like, making a committment and sticking to it, etc . . . all of these are crucial skills for adulthood, whether you apply them to paid or unpaid work.

Exactly. Employers have cited over and over a need for entry level workers with the sort of skills that can be learned through community service. Will some kids waste the experience and fail to gain those skills? Certainly. Some kids will also waste their time in math classes and graduate unable to calculate a tip or give change.

The only class you listed that was mandatory on the high school level(in my experience) was gym. ALL others were electives. If you want to offer a community service CLASS as an elective that is fine. How that class is run (they do the work in class, AS a class off site, or have an open hour so they can use that class time to volunteer elsewhere) is up for discussion, but it should be a CHOICE for students.

And as for gym -- I would be THRILLED if that was never a requirement. But that is another thread.

That's crazy, kids in my school district are required to graduate with fine arts credits, from art or music. They also have to take health, computer classes, and home economics (though a modernized version of this one). They get some choices, such as art or music, just like kids get some choice about where and how they will fulfill community service hours.

OK then. Let the students do the Community Service during school hours. But first, please tell me what my child will learn if they volunteer at the animal shelter and remove poop from cages.

A question for all those that support Community Service under the guise of learning. Would you support making students work a certain number of hours at a part-time job as a requirement for graduation? They would learn many life lessons by having a job: pay rates, taxes, take home pay, showing up on time, savings, etc.

OK. Several other people have answered this very well, but I'll just chime in that your child will learn a lot from removing poop, even if it's only that he or she will want a college education in order to avoid working manual labor later in life.

Yes, I think a paying job would have many of the same benefits, but it would be next to impossible to place every student in a paying job, whereas community service positions can be found more easily. Schools make these sorts of practical decisions all the time. Your student might get great exercise from swimming, for example, but since pools are expensive to build and maintain, P.E. classes tend to involve more gym based activities.

There is an important piece missing from this argument. Yes students would possible learn valuable lessons from performing community services and some would be more than happy to perform these services. However, many students would resent being forced and perform poorly. This, in turn, would have an impact on the group who would be receiving this service. Volunteers who are not able, or choose not to do the job properly do more harm than good to the organization they are suppose to be helping.

Plenty of students do more harm than good in the classroom, because they resent being asked to do any work at all. Those same kids are likely to be a pain during community service hours. Fortunately, the organization being served can simply ask the student not to come again. In the classroom, teachers have to work with students all the time who resent being asked to work.

Seriously, I worked with a couple of high achieving high school students one summer. These were smart girls, who met all expectations in the classroom. When they showed up for a real job, though, they needed a different kid of education. For instance, they both showed up in flip flops for a job that required lifting and moving heavy objects. I had to explain to them that they needed different footwear. The next time they had a similar job, they presumably knew about appropriate footwear. It was a little thing, but we all have to learn those little things somewhere.

It's difficult for me to understand why any parent would be upset by an additional learning opportunity. People keep citing hardships, due to transportation and scheduling, but I would guarantee that those issues could be overcome if the school was simply made aware of the problems. Even that would be a valuable life lesson, since we all need to learn to communicate with others, such as future employers, in order to solve problems in life.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Some of the sheeple in this thread are quite a wonder. They be quite content living in Mao's Red China. "But, but, but..forcing kids to do mandatory volunteering is for the good of the Empire ! There is no way their parents could actually teach them that."

Major difference between "could" and "would/will". Many of the posters cite lack of transportation or unavailability of a parent to supervise as one reason against Community Service as a requirement for graduation. What makes you think if it's not convenient as a requirement, it'd be something the parents would encourage in real life?

We have many "well rounded" people in the US. They can be found at KFC, Taco Bell, McDonald's, Golden Corral.....

Your sarcasm is showing.

 

[kaytieeldr]

So for kids who are working to support their family, its ok not to just in case you go to college? Also if they are having to take care of their siblings what happens to them while they are "volunteering"

Well, there are a lot of 'ifs' or presumptions in the original statement; but if something has to be done, a way can be found to do it. Some of the posters in this thread whose kids do have to do Community Service are saying they need to do 20, 40, or 60 hours per year, or 100 or 150 over four years.

Even at 60 hours per year, that's an hour and a half per school year or an hour and nine minutes weekly distributed throughout a full year. I never said it's okay not to help your family in need (although in my opinion, expecting/needing a 14 or 15 year old to get a paying job to help support a family is a lot more pressure than a few hours of CS a week); but college isn't something one "just happens" to attend.

 

[bicker]

If I have the choice between the volunteer who is going to do a poor job/nothing at all or a cheque, I'll take the cheque.

However, this isn't about what's good for the specifically community service organization - it's about what's good for society overall.

my responses are bolded.
Anyone know how to do color using google chrome?

Just put each statement you want to reply to in separate [ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ] tags. That makes the quoting a lot easier to follow, and reply to, than using colors or font-weight.

 

[bicker]

The definition of CIVICS is the branch of political science that deals with the rights and DUTIES of citizens. IMHO, service to the community is a duty of us all---we should be contributing members of society not dead weight.

And that was indeed part of what we were taught in Civics. Given that the courses-by-that-name are gone, I suspect that they changed over time, with their most essential aspects relevant to this thread, perhaps, washed out of them for some reason.

 

[bicker]

Homework is part of schoolwork. Community service isn't schoolwork.

This would make it such - or, as I suggest earlier, would make it one of two ways of satisfying a requirement for graduation.

I don't get requiring it for graduation.

The idea is to add a hands-on means by which schools can teach civic responsibility.

People who are looking for the negative are going to see it wherever they want to see it.