Should resale owners pay lower dues?

[Drew729]

Just wanted to get the conversation started.

We often have discussions on blue vs white card but I don’t really see this issue addressed.

When there is a promotion considered a membership extra for only blue card holders such as holiday tickets, AP, length of stay tickets etc. Situations like these can tie up phone lines and possibly increase the number of workers needed and payment for employees.

Is there a reason for this? I thought member services was primarily for reservations as well as ownership questions and help. Thanks for any thoughts!

 

[RoseGold]

Well, the resale "glitch" on borrowing points probably makes up for it. I know I have spent WAAAAY more time on the phone than I wanted to because this trash website won't let me borrow points.

I don't want to talk on the phone about any of this. I just want to click and do it.

 

[Sandisw]

DVCMC is the arm that manages the program and that includes being there for all needs.

It is a straight fee that we pay them. In addition, though, they get additional money via breakage which helps to fund them, and possible other sources, like DVD.

So, in additional to what we pay as part of annual dues, there are other revenue streams. In that sense, I think it is enough to support the extra things that one must call MS for related to having a blue card.

 

[OKW Lover]

I'd think resale owners should pay higher dues. The original buyers deserve a break for their loyal support.

 

[Drew729]

DVCMC is the arm that manages the program and that includes being there for all needs.

It is a straight fee that we pay them. In addition, though, they get additional money via breakage which helps to fund them, and possible other sources, like DVD.

So, in additional to what we pay as part of annual dues, there are other revenue streams. In that sense, I think it is enough to support the extra things that one must call MS for related to having a blue card.

I don’t disagree but maybe interpret the wording of the membership extras acknowledgement differently. If I am understanding correct what you are saying is maybe there is some kind of agreement in place to cover the additional costs? I have pasted the excerpt below which is where my initial view about this came from.

It states” None of the Benefits described in this Statement are a feature or component of a DVC Resort or an Ownership Interest, or of any rights or privileges which are appurtenant to that Ownership Interest.“

Use of any Benefits and participation in the Program is completely voluntary and payment of any fees or other costs associated with the Program or any Benefit is required only upon such use or participation. No costs of acquisition, operation, maintenance or repair of the Program or any Benefit are passed on to Purchasers as common expenses of a DVC Resort or the Club. None of the Benefits described in this Statement are a feature or component of a DVC Resort or an Ownership Interest, or of any rights or privileges which are appurtenant to that Ownership Interest. The continued availability of the Program or any Benefit or any or all of these special programs is not necessary in order for any accommodation or facility of a DVC Resort or the Club to be available for use by Purchasers in a manner identical in all material respects with the manner portrayed by any promotional material, advertising or the Public Offering Statement.

 

[Drew729]

Well, the resale "glitch" on borrowing points probably makes up for it. I know I have spent WAAAAY more time on the phone than I wanted to because this trash website won't let me borrow points.

I don't want to talk on the phone about any of this. I just want to click and do it.

Ha! I don’t disagree and have felt your pain when I had to borrow 1 measly point.

 

[Donna M]

I think people who buy resale know what they are buying into. They are getting into the system cheaper than buying direct. I don't think they should also be getting a discount.

 

[CarolMN]

Should resale owners pay lower dues?

When there is a promotion considered a membership extra for only blue card holders such as holiday tickets, AP, length of stay tickets etc. Situations like these can tie up phone lines and possibly increase the number of workers needed and payment for employees.

No. As you can see from drusba's excellent explanation on how MS is funded (from another thread), the extra employees that may be required would be paid for by Disney, not Members.

MS Services and the reservation systems and management services are paid as follows: (a) there is a $1 per member per year DVC Reservation Compenent Fee; (b) DVCM gets paid 12.5% of the annual budget (not including taxes and the 12.5% fee in the calculation), out of which it pays for any home resort reservation services and reservation systems; (c) breakage income for renting the resort rooms goes first to offset 2.5% of the annual budget (not including taxes), next to cover all the costs of member services that relate to reservations of non-home DVC Resorts and non-DVC resorts, plus 5% of those costs (a built in profit), and then the remainder goes to DVCM to do with as it pleases. Result: if DVC were to spend $100,000 on member services and reservation systems in a year or $10 million dollars, your dues would not vary one penney because none of the payment sources for such services vary according to actual cost. And the more breakage income that is made in a year, the more profit DVCM can make.

And the various system issues are not happening only to resale members, and the ones that seem to be, are not happening to all resale members.

 

[Drew729]

Should resale owners pay lower dues?



No. As you can see from drusba's excellent explanation on how MS is funded (from another thread), the extra employees that may be required would be paid for by Disney, not Members.



And the various system issues are not happening only to resale members, and the ones that seem to be, are not happening to all resale members.

That is an excellent explanation! Thanks for posting that as it is much appreciated.

So are we thinking the that member benefits and cost incurred for staffing phone line for cases such as ticketing for special events would fall under the reservation component or that it would come from the additional income outside of the reservation component?

 

[CarolMN]

That is an excellent explanation! Thanks for posting that as it is much appreciated.

So are we thinking the that member benefits and cost incurred for staffing phone line for cases such as ticketing for special events would fall under the reservation component or that it would come from the additional income outside of the reservation component?

Doubt it really matters or that Disney even assigns MS expenses to a particular revenue stream. Disney probably considers all the revenue streams as one big pot. Any $$ not used to pay MS expenses goes to Disney' s bottom line. Of course re breakage, those $$ only flow to Disney after the cap is reached.

 

[Sandisw]

I don’t disagree but maybe interpret the wording of the membership extras acknowledgement differently. If I am understanding correct what you are saying is maybe there is some kind of agreement in place to cover the additional costs? I have pasted the excerpt below which is where my initial view about this came from.

It states” None of the Benefits described in this Statement are a feature or component of a DVC Resort or an Ownership Interest, or of any rights or privileges which are appurtenant to that Ownership Interest.“

Use of any Benefits and participation in the Program is completely voluntary and payment of any fees or other costs associated with the Program or any Benefit is required only upon such use or participation. No costs of acquisition, operation, maintenance or repair of the Program or any Benefit are passed on to Purchasers as common expenses of a DVC Resort or the Club. None of the Benefits described in this Statement are a feature or component of a DVC Resort or an Ownership Interest, or of any rights or privileges which are appurtenant to that Ownership Interest. The continued availability of the Program or any Benefit or any or all of these special programs is not necessary in order for any accommodation or facility of a DVC Resort or the Club to be available for use by Purchasers in a manner identical in all material respects with the manner portrayed by any promotional material, advertising or the Public Offering Statement.

Correct. It means that none of the expenses are part of the ownership and you can’t be charged via dues for those benefits. For example, they can’t charge costs at the Epcot Lounge against the dues.

The work the DVMC does is to manage the ownership plan which they do. But my take is that does not limit them for doing additional work which is what happens when MS takes care of those things.

Again, they get revenue in addition to dues so there is no reason, IMO, to say a resale buyer should be paying less.

 

[Dizzydizney]

Considering the fact that resale buyers are getting a large discount when purchasing points vs a direct buyer, that would be a big NO. BWV direct is $210 pp, resale averages $150 pp.;Poly $250 direct, resale $180; Copper Creek $225 direct, resale $160.

I don’t understand all of the whining that goes on.....resale buyers know what they are getting when they are buying points at a discount. Then once they are members start all the complaining about things they are not entitled to.

You can save $9,000 on a 150 point Boardwalk contract. Sorry but that does not make me think that resale buyers should pay less dues because they might have to spend more time on the phone.

 

[drusba]

There is actually one group of resale buyers that may have a potential challenge to a certain dues item charged to them. That is the Riviera resale buyers and the particular charge in the annual budget is for the "DVC Reservation Component,"

The DVC Reservation Component is the name of the reservation system that applies to members using home resort points to reserve a non-home resort at 7-months or fewer from date of arrival. It is a $1 per member per year charge that is part of the funding for the Buena Vista Trading Co., the one responsible for reservations made through use of the DVC Reservation Component.

When I read through the Riviera annual budget, it appears that all Riviera owners, including resale purchasers, are subject to that fee. Riviera resale purchasers are expressly prohibited from using the DVC Reservation Component to make reservations at other DVC resorts, and thus could assert they should not be required to pay the fee for it.

 

[Sandisw]

There is actually one group of resale buyers that may have a potential challenge to a certain dues item charged to them. That is the Riviera resale buyers and the particular charge in the annual budget is for the "DVC Reservation Component,"

The DVC Reservation Component is the name of the reservation system that applies to members using home resort points to reserve a non-home resort at 7-months or fewer from date of arrival. It is a $1 per member per year charge that is part of the funding for the Buena Vista Trading Co., the one responsible for reservations made through use of the DVC Reservation Component.

When I read through the Riviera annual budget, it appears that all Riviera owners, including resale purchasers, are subject to that fee. Riviera resale purchasers are expressly prohibited from using the DVC Reservation Component to make reservations at other DVC resorts, and thus could assert they should not be required to pay the fee for it.

That is a good point. I know it’s only a total of $2 for us as we are two owners, but I might just have to inquire about it to see what they say.

 

[Ssplashhmtn]

Considering the fact that resale buyers are getting a large discount when purchasing points vs a direct buyer, that would be a big NO. BWV direct is $210 pp, resale averages $150 pp.;Poly $250 direct, resale $180; Copper Creek $225 direct, resale $160.

I don’t understand all of the whining that goes on.....resale buyers know what they are getting when they are buying points at a discount. Then once they are members start all the complaining about things they are not entitled to.

You can save $9,000 on a 150 point Boardwalk contract. Sorry but that does not make me think that resale buyers should pay less dues because they might have to spend more time on the phone.

I think OP is asking a fair question, a math question, nothing to be triggered over. The ’lower than market‘ price paid by a resale buyer is borne by the owner that is selling their contract, not Disney. Disney did not provide a discount to anyone, but is indeed incurring less cost when a contract is transferred to a new owner. So OP is simply asking a reasonable math question, given Disney didn’t provide a discount to anyone, but provides less services at the time of resale.

 

[Tornat]

I’m new to dvc and haven’t dived into every little thing in dvc . But way I look at it a 10 point night room and my due $7.50. So that night is $75.00. I don’t see why someone who buys resell should get that night at a cheaper rate.

 

[Drew729]

I think OP is asking a fair question, a math question, nothing to be triggered over. The ’lower than market‘ price paid by a resale buyer is borne by the owner that is selling their contract, not Disney. Disney did not provide a discount to anyone, but is indeed incurring less cost when a contract is transferred to a new owner. So OP is simply asking a reasonable math question, given Disney didn’t provide a discount to anyone, but provides less services at the time of resale.

Thanks. I appreciate the feedback and yes it was in fact a math question. Membership extras are not the issue, the question should be if the service of providing support to those membership extra programs should be paid by all owners, even those who can’t access them.

I am actually pretty neutral on this subject and was just hoping for some thoughts and conversation because this is DVC forum where discussions sometimes take place and you don’t even need to take a “side”.

 

[gharter]

My understanding is dues are charged based mainly on property taxes and maintenance costs, not the few perks that blue card members get, which is paid for by direct buyers.
So it doesn't matter how many years you've owned, the expenses for the current year are the same for everyone.
Does your bank say you've owned your house for 20 years, so we will lower your mortgage payments?

 

[Maistre Gracey]

to

My understanding is dues are charged based mainly on property taxes and maintenance costs, not the few perks that blue card members get, which is paid for by direct buyers.
So it doesn't matter how many years you've owned, the expenses for the current year are the same for everyone.
Does your bank say you've owned your house for 20 years, so we will lower your mortgage payments?

I think the point is, and I could be mistaken, why should white card holders be paying member services to assist blue card holders for things whites are not entitled to?
I think that’s a good argument.

 

[gharter]

to

I think the point is, and I could be mistaken, why should white card holders be paying member services to assist blue card holders for things whites are not entitled to?
I think that’s a good argument.

As I understand it, they aren't. The moonlight madness parties are paid entirely by direct sales, as are any perks the blue card holders get..
I'm not aware of any perks that blue card holders get (which are very few now) that are paid by all the DVC owners. I may be wrong