Should OKW 2042 dues be different to OKW 2057

[Ruttangel]

I'm sure this has been answered before but as a 2042 OKW owner am I paying into a reserve for a roof replacement that may be due in 2045?
Effectively helping the 2057 owners out.

Even soft goods refurb, that might be planned to happen in 2038 and next 2044, why would I pay for that after 2038?

If so is there anything wrong with this? Doesn't feel right to me?

 

[_auroraborealis_]

The reality is that no one actually legally expires in 2042. Disney is still trying to make it happen with ROFR and quitclaims, but there is legally no such thing as a 2042 expiry at OKW.

You all expire in 2057.

 

[Ruttangel]

The reality is that no one actually legally expires in 2042. Disney is still trying to make it happen with ROFR and quitclaims, but there is legally no such thing as a 2042 expiry at OKW.

You all expire in 2057.

i thought that it was just the original owners who may argue that. I bought resale long after the issue with quitclaims

 

[perchy]

The reality is that no one actually legally expires in 2042. Disney is still trying to make it happen with ROFR and quitclaims, but there is legally no such thing as a 2042 expiry at OKW.

You all expire in 2057.

I'd love a good resource around this to research. I can't imagine Disney will let me just keep my contract in 2042 for the cost of dues.

I'm a new OKW 2042 owner, so this is new-ish news to me.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

If you bought a 2042 resale in the last 10+ years, you signed a quitclaim on the 2042-2057 years as part of closing. This was required because otherwise you'd have a claim past 2042.

 

[Ruttangel]

Ok, so bringing this back to the dues. Let's assume my resale purchase included a signed quitclaim. Fine, I get ejected from the condo on 31st Jan 2042.
Therefore my dues should be subsidised from a certain date, let's say 2030 to exclude certain capital items?

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Ok, so bringing this back to the dues. Let's assume my resale purchase included a signed quitclaim. Fine, I get ejected from the condo on 31st Jan 2042.
Therefore my dues should be subsidised from a certain date, let's say 2030 to exclude certain capital items?

Unlikely. You bought knowing that you were turning back use from 2042-2057.

 

[Ruttangel]

Unlikely. You bought knowing that you were turning back use from 2042-2057.

I don't mind the expiry, I knew about that, it just doesn't seem right to ask 2042 people to top up refurb reserves in 2041 that will happen in 2047.
I only have 35 points so makes no difference to me just wanted to understand if anyone had researched this before

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

In theory you are correct. At this point the capital reserves being collected should all still be for refurbs that fit in the time of your ownership. Around 2030 or so you may want to plan on "reminding" DVC about this aspect. They may have some idea of how they are going to handle it or may just be passing the issue down the line to whomever is in charge closer to the 2042 date.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Therefore my dues should be subsidised from a certain date, let's say 2030 to exclude certain capital items?

Under that logic, what's unique about Old Key West? Why wouldn't every owner be entitled to dues reductions as they reach the end of their contract terms?

 

[Ruttangel]

Under that logic, what's unique about Old Key West? Why wouldn't every owner be entitled to dues reductions as they reach the end of their contract terms?

There are 2 expiry dates for OKW, 2042/2057

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Under that logic, what's unique about Old Key West? Why wouldn't every owner be entitled to dues reductions as they reach the end of their contract terms?

Capital reserves are collected in advance of capital projects. The projects being done will benefit future years, not current so if they were collected on all owners those who have their ownership ending in 2042 would be paying for things done only for 2057 owners benefit.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

There are 2 expiry dates for OKW, 2042/2057

Capital reserves are collected in advance of capital projects. The projects being done will benefit future years, not current so if they were collected on all owners those who have their ownership ending in 2042 would be paying for things done only for 2057 owners benefit.

That's not a material difference to the question being asked.

If 2042 OKW owners shouldn't have to pay for things that will benefit owners in 2043 and beyond, why would 2057 owners have to pay for things that will benefit Disney/guests/whomever in 2058 and beyond? Why would Boulder Ridge owners have to pay for things that will benefit Disney/guests/whomever in 2043 and beyond?

 

[Ruttangel]

That's not a material difference to the question being asked.

If 2042 OKW owners shouldn't have to pay for things that will benefit owners in 2043 and beyond, why would 2057 owners have to pay for things that will benefit Disney/guests/whomever in 2058 and beyond? Why would Boulder Ridge owners have to pay for things that will benefit Disney/guests/whomever in 2043 and beyond?

They won't. That's what I'm getting at, OKW 2042 capital reserves should wind down in a similar vein to all other 2042 resorts will. They shouldn't be kept high to cover post 2042 projects just because there are owners there until 2057. It's a complete mess because of the ownership split.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

You bought a New(ish) resort from Disney or a period of 50 years with the expectation that you would return it to them in New(ish) condition. You pay maintenance fees every year to keep it in New(ish) condition. You don't get to let the resort get run down and deplete the Capital reserves down to zero just because you're exiting the property. Disney is entitled to enough reserves on-hand at the time of exit to maintain the resort at New(ish) condition even after you're gone.

They won't. That's what I'm getting at, OKW 2042 capital reserves should wind down in a similar vein to all other 2042 resorts will. They shouldn't be kept high to cover post 2042 projects just because there are owners there until 2057. It's a complete mess because of the ownership split.

Pick any resort not-named Old Key West. The reserve balance will not be zero upon exit.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

That's not a material difference to the question being asked.

If 2042 OKW owners shouldn't have to pay for things that will benefit owners in 2043 and beyond, why would 2057 owners have to pay for things that will benefit Disney/guests/whomever in 2058 and beyond? Why would Boulder Ridge owners have to pay for things that will benefit Disney/guests/whomever in 2043 and beyond?

Who is saying that they should? The resorts should not be refurbed to pristine condition just prior to expiration at any owners expense. OKW is just unique in that it has 2 different sets of expiration so DVC should be considering the necessity of adjustment for 2042 owners as it gets closer to that time.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Who is saying that they should?

I am.

The resorts should not be refurbed to pristine condition just prior to expiration at any owners expense.

Yes, they should. You don't get to buy a New resort at the beginning of your term and then return a beat-to-hell resort to Disney at the end of your term.

 

[Ruttangel]

You bought a New(ish) resort from Disney or a period of 50 years with the expectation that you would return it to them in New(ish) condition. You pay maintenance fees every year to keep it in New(ish) condition. You don't get to let the resort get run down and deplete the Capital reserves down to zero just because you're exiting the property. Disney is entitled to enough reserves on-hand at the time of exit to maintain the resort at New(ish) condition even after you're gone.


Pick any resort not-named Old Key West. The reserve balance will not be zero upon exit.

Ok I'll pay for a refurb in Jan 2042 but why should I pay for one that will happen in 2045?

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

You bought a New(ish) resort from Disney or a period of 50 years with the expectation that you would return it to them in New(ish) condition. You pay maintenance fees every year to keep it in New(ish) condition. You don't get to let the resort get run down and deplete the Capital reserves down to zero just because you're exiting the property. Disney is entitled to enough reserves on-hand at the time of exit to maintain the resort at New(ish) condition even after you're gone.

There is nothing in the POS like that. The land is leased for a certain term, not the building which is actually owned by those who own at the resort. In theory the owners could raise the building just before the expiration but that has a cost too so just close the doors and drop off the keys since I don't believe the land lease has anything about returning it to them in any particular condition either but have only glanced at some of the initial documents. They own the management company so probably weren't concerned by that aspect.

Your arguing the building has been leased but it hasn't.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Ok I'll pay for a refurb in Jan 2042 but why should I pay for one that will happen in 2045?

You should pay for a fraction of the one that will happen in 2045.

Making up numbers for easy math to illustrate my point. Pretend, for this example, that there's no distinction between Hard Goods, Soft Goods, pools, lobbies etc. A refurb is a refurb in this example. If the resort is refurbished in 2040 and the next refurbishment is scheduled for 2050, when you exit in 2042, the reserve should have a balance of roughly 20% of the expected cost of the 2050 refurb because you "used" that depreciation.