Should I Buy Riviera?

[havoc315]

Totally agree. DVC info has a posting from 2019 that shows the breakdown of all the points in the system by resorts. Most of the desirable boutique resorts have 1-4 million points whereas Aulani has over 11 million and Saratoga has over 13 million, followed by OKW at 7 million and AKV at 5 million. I know this would be very unpopular but I’m totally ok if DVC separates these “cheaper” resorts into a separate category in their own eco system to prevent sleep around points taking over bookings in the more
Premium resorts. I mean, the DVC rental sites already do this by charging less for SSR and OKW.

I wouldn't want an entirely separate ecosystem. But it would be nice if the system actually was built to discourage trading into "higher" level resorts.

 

[HIRyeDVC]

You’re absolutely right. Your suggestion would indeed be very unpopular, and is a particularly ill conceived one as well. Disney has succeeded in creating a class system between direct and resale, which none of us appreciate, and I don’t think creating another one between resale contracts of various resorts, just to benefit yourself, is anywhere near a good idea. Nor is denigrating a DVC resort you don’t own.

Aulani is one of my home resorts, and frankly I think it’s Disney’s best. I don’t use it for sleep around points, because with maintenance fees and current resale pricing, it really doesn’t make much economic sense, but I’m certainly glad I have the option to. Not sure you’re aware of Aulani’s resale point cost, which has skyrocketed in the last several months.

Yeah, I don’t mean any ill will and I kinda take it back. I too don’t want further division in the DVC community. I also like being able to use my “premium“ points at Aulani and other resorts. But with the coming of more new resorts with resale restrictions, I think the days of SAPs will eventually be a thing of the past, which is also fine by me. I am aware of the rise in Aulani resale prices. And I agree with you that Aulani is one of the best DVC gems out there. I just don’t think it will hold any long term value due to its remote location and limited market base. Too many DVCers are disproportionately from the East coast. I have a lot of friends here in HI that own Aulani. Most use it for staycation but once in awhile, they try to use it for WDW and find themselves often shocked that they could only find availability at SSR and OKW. Not exactly what they were promised by their direct sales guides. I never have an issue finding days here and there at Aulani and that’s why I don’t own there. The same way that you are with VGC. It would be something if Aulani ever does sell out.

 

[Sandisw]

I wouldn't want an entirely separate ecosystem. But it would be nice if the system actually was built to discourage trading into "higher" level resorts.

There is a system in place that allows for this, but BVTC has never used that option. They are allowed to create different point charts for trades at non home resorts, which do not need to stay point neutral and can be different for different resorts.

For example, they could make it so that trading in to premium resorts by non owners is higher than what it costs owners to book. It just has never been done.

 

[HIRyeDVC]

This is actually a major issue and problem for trading. If all resorts were equally desirable, then there would be lots of access at 7 months all around. You'd have a Beach Club person basically trading with a Poly person, etc.
But it's a major problem that certain resorts are "less desirable" and people buy the points specifically just to trade out and sleep around. SSR, for example, has far more people trading out than trading in. Not many Grand Floridan point owners are trading their points for SSR. And this is what destroys availability once you pass the 7 month window.

DVC resale brokers market SSR exactly as that, which is part of the problem. I hate it when people say “I bought SSR for so cheap. It’s my home resort and we love it! But I’ve never stayed there.” Huh?

 

[HIRyeDVC]

There is a system in place that allows for this, but BVTC has never used that option. They are allowed to create different point charts for trades at non home resorts, which do not need to stay point neutral and can be different for different resorts.

For example, they could make it so that trading in to premium resorts by non owners is higher than what it costs owners to book. It just has never been done.

BVTC?

 

[Sandisw]

BVTC?

Buena Vista Trading Company. This is the division that is in charge of the DVC reservation component so they are in charge of what happens for the non home resort bookings.

The agreement is included as part of the POS. Of course, they are run by Disney people too, but it’s that entity that is in charge.

 

[Paul Stupin]

Yeah, I don’t mean any ill will and I kinda take it back. I too don’t want further division in the DVC community. I also like being able to use my “premium“ points at Aulani and other resorts. But with the coming of more new resorts with resale restrictions, I think the days of SAPs will eventually be a thing of the past, which is also fine by me. I am aware of the rise in Aulani resale prices. And I agree with you that Aulani is one of the best DVC gems out there. I just don’t think it will hold any long term value due to its remote location and limited market base. Too many DVCers are disproportionately from the East coast. I have a lot of friends here in HI that own Aulani. Most use it for staycation but once in awhile, they try to use it for WDW and find themselves often shocked that they could only find availability at SSR and OKW. Not exactly what they were promised by their direct sales guides. I never have an issue finding days here and there at Aulani and that’s why I don’t own there. The same way that you are with VGC. It would be something if Aulani ever does sell out.

Agree about the 7 month availability becoming more and more of an issue. I also own at CCV and VGF, the latter a resort I wasn’t planning to buy until I realized (before the VGF2 announcement) that it was impossible to book at 7 months. And even with VGF2, the 11 month advantage I bet will still be advantageous in getting a one bedroom.

I do agree that it’s a bad idea to spend a bunch of money on a pricey DVC purchase at a resort you can live with, but aren’t excited about, just so you can use the points elsewhere. It makes booking vacations too stressful and uncertain. One can even argue that it’s penny wise and dollar foolish. For what it’s worth, I actually use some of my CCV points for additional stays at Aulani, since its 7 month availability is always good, and in the long run I’d rather own more CCV than Aulani. So at least I’m helping increase availability at CCV!

 

[Sandisw]

Agree about the 7 month availability becoming more and more of an issue. I also own at CCV and VGF, the latter a resort I wasn’t planning to buy until I realized (before the VGF2 announcement) that it was impossible to book at 7 months. And even with VGF2, the 11 month advantage I bet will still be advantageous in getting a one bedroom.

I do agree that it’s a bad idea to spend a bunch of money on a pricey DVC purchase at a resort you can live with, but aren’t excited about, just so you can use the points elsewhere. It makes booking vacations too stressful and uncertain. One can even argue that it’s penny wise and dollar foolish. For what it’s worth, I actually use some of my CCV points for additional stays at Aulani, since its 7 month availability is always good, and in the long run I’d rather own more CCV than Aulani. So at least I’m helping increase availability at CCV!

We did buy 500 SSR points for the sole purpose of SAP. But, we also have home resorts that allow us to book trips when we know we need to be there.

The SSR were to supplement but with so many, it would allow the 1 bedrooms to become an option too. Of course, we bought in 2017 and only paid $73/pt for the 300 pointer and $75/point for the 200 point one.

It was a gamble but felt worth it, So far, never had an issue getting the extra nights at the other resorts at 7 months. Took work, but it’s been worth it!

 

[havoc315]

There is a system in place that allows for this, but BVTC has never used that option. They are allowed to create different point charts for trades at non home resorts, which do not need to stay point neutral and can be different for different resorts.

For example, they could make it so that trading in to premium resorts by non owners is higher than what it costs owners to book. It just has never been done.

I'm not sure if it would withstand scrutiny if they suddenly did it. Just because it's buried in the contract doesn't mean it would withstand scrutiny. If suddenly a SSR owner, who has been "sleeping around" with their points for 10 years, suddenly found they have to "pay" twice as many points to trade out, they would have a pretty good argument that it wasn't the bargain they had made.

But, it could potentially solve the 7 month problem. Given GFV, RIV, etc, owners an incentive to trade into places like OKW and SSR.. trade in VB and HHI during their off-seasons, while incentivizing SSR/OKW owners, etc, to stay in their home resort.

 

[havoc315]

DVC resale brokers market SSR exactly as that, which is part of the problem. I hate it when people say “I bought SSR for so cheap. It’s my home resort and we love it! But I’ve never stayed there.” Huh?

And when they book a resort at 8:00 a.m. at the 7-month mark, or walk their reservation even earlier, it's a big part of the reason that available may be done by 9:01 a.m. at the 7-month mark.

 

[Sandisw]

I'm not sure if it would withstand scrutiny if they suddenly did it. Just because it's buried in the contract doesn't mean it would withstand scrutiny. If suddenly a SSR owner, who has been "sleeping around" with their points for 10 years, suddenly found they have to "pay" twice as many points to trade out, they would have a pretty good argument that it wasn't the bargain they had made.

But, it could potentially solve the 7 month problem. Given GFV, RIV, etc, owners an incentive to trade into places like OKW and SSR.. trade in VB and HHI during their off-seasons, while incentivizing SSR/OKW owners, etc, to stay in their home resort.

The rules would be a point chart for all owners for trades. So it would be based on the resort trading into.

For example, VGF would have its non home resort chart. But it would apply to all non home resort owners, not just certain owners, like SSE or

The point is the program does not have to allow 1:1 point trading at 7 months.

I realize people fight anything but IMO, contracts matter and right now we all agreed to those terms. I find nothing wrong with that system. If someone bought not understanding the rules that can change, it’s on them.

Having said that, I don’t see it being done but it is built in as an option.

 

[DVCsloth]

Pretty much what the 7-11 month window is all about. This is one of the things that makes DVC so great. You can trade into other resorts if you want to. I have already used some of my VGF and CCV to trade into Riviera. I love my home resorts, but I also like the option to try out different resorts.

 

[Paul Stupin]

Pretty much what the 7-11 month window is all about. This is one of the things that makes DVC so great. You can trade into other resorts if you want to. I have already used some of my VGF and CCV to trade into Riviera. I love my home resorts, but I also like the option to try out different resorts.

Yes, though I purchased mostly resale, I’ve bought some direct VGF and CCV points as well, and plan on adding on some VGF2 points, so I have options to book Riviera, DLT, and whatever cool new build they announce in a year or two, or three.