Should GM be bailed out?

[big kahuna1]

We will have to agree to disagree Steve.

Agreed.



Now The Hartford is going to purchase a bank to make themselves eligible for some of this bailout money.

We have all been snookered. I fear the same will happen with any future bailout of anyone or anything. Enough is enough!!! If they want to just throw away our tax dollars then throw back at us.

 

[bigdisneydaddy]

This whole bailout thing never should have gotten started in the first place, now its just gotten to the point where its ridiculous. I heard yesterday that citys are now asking for bailouts ?

I did just confirm also that GM administers their pension program not the UAW. Part of their legacy costs are also related to salary employees who are not UAW members.

GM did make changes to their health care plans and the UAW now administers that program.

 

[BRDof3]

Hey - I just got an email and my worries are over - I don't need to be in any government bailout. It seems some close friend of mine whom I don't remember was killed in a horrific automobile accident in Nigeria and has listed me as his only heir. I have to send an attorney my bank account number and SSN and he will transfer 20million dollars into my account. He is meeting me at the Newark airport this afternoon. See ya, suckers!!!!

Just keep your pants rolled up all the time. The sight of your beautiful knees will distract him, and he'll be putty during the negotiations!

 

[ntsammy5]

I did just confirm also that GM administers their pension program not the UAW.

If GM files CH 11 then the pension will become the responsibility of the The U.S. Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp which is already pretty close to insolvency. PBGC does not pay full pensions - there is a formula to figure that out. If GM files the BK Court can set aside all union contracts but
GM would not make it through restructuring without government intervention. If they file though, before any government programs, it will be very, very hard for retirees - even with a bailout things will never be the same for current/past employees.

The first thing that needs to be done is the Board of Directors, all senior executives and all UAW officers need to resign or be fired. They're all part of the problem.

 

[bigdisneydaddy]

If GM files CH 11 then the pension will become the responsibility of the The U.S. Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp which is already pretty close to insolvency. PBGC does not pay full pensions - there is a formula to figure that out. If GM files the BK Court can set aside all union contracts but
GM would not make it through restructuring without government intervention. If they file though, before any government programs, it will be very, very hard for retirees - even with a bailout things will never be the same for current/past employees.

The first thing that needs to be done is the Board of Directors, all senior executives and all UAW officers need to resign or be fired. They're all part of the problem.

I think that part of GM's plan is to shed the pension burden and throw it back on the american taxpayer. Its been done many times before.

 

[RvUsa]

I think that part of GM's plan is to shed the pension burden and throw it back on the american taxpayer. Its been done many times before.

Scott, don't let it sound like GM pays the pensions, what they have done, is used the money paid into the pension accounts by the workers. They "borrow" the money out of these accounts and then file for bankruptcy so they don't have to pay it back. It is kind of like legal robbery!

My family all worked for a steel company here locally, and when it started to loose money, they stole the pension accounts, and when they ran out, then they filed bankruptcy! Now 5 people in my family were faced with the pbgc, and what a joke that is. My dad worked for the company for 30+ yrs, paying into his pension. Secure in the fact that when he retired he could live comfortably on a budget he had made. Well with the tiny fraction of his original pension that he was planning on that the pbgc pays he had to completely replan his retirement.

The PBGC does the best it can, but these companies and their officers that steal the security and hard earned money are the ones that should be punished!!!

 

[Born 2 Fish]

Scott, don't let it sound like GM pays the pensions, what they have done, is used the money paid into the pension accounts by the workers. They "borrow" the money out of these accounts and then file for bankruptcy so they don't have to pay it back. It is kind of like legal robbery!

My family all worked for a steel company here locally, and when it started to loose money, they stole the pension accounts, and when they ran out, then they filed bankruptcy! Now 5 people in my family were faced with the pbgc, and what a joke that is. My dad worked for the company for 30+ yrs, paying into his pension. Secure in the fact that when he retired he could live comfortably on a budget he had made. Well with the tiny fraction of his original pension that he was planning on that the pbgc pays he had to completely replan his retirement.

The PBGC does the best it can, but these companies and their officers that steal the security and hard earned money are the ones that should be punished!!!

That just STINKS.

 

[jugman]

That sounds about right. The brillant ceo's that companies can't do without still end up bending over the WORKING CLASS. Notice I said WORKING CLASS. They/us are the one's that always get the shaft, while they walk away multi-millionaires, but I guess that just makes me envious.

 

[ntsammy5]

Richard Fuld, former CEO of Lehman Brothers, had total compensation of $500,000,000 between 2000 and the time they went bankrupt! The compenstation committee recommended $20,000,000 bonuses for 3 executives just days before filing bankruptcy.

What a bunch of lying, cheating, worthless SOBs. Hopefully these people will all get what's coming to them eventually

 

[bigdisneydaddy]

Scott, don't let it sound like GM pays the pensions, what they have done, is used the money paid into the pension accounts by the workers. They "borrow" the money out of these accounts and then file for bankruptcy so they don't have to pay it back. It is kind of like legal robbery!

My family all worked for a steel company here locally, and when it started to loose money, they stole the pension accounts, and when they ran out, then they filed bankruptcy! Now 5 people in my family were faced with the pbgc, and what a joke that is. My dad worked for the company for 30+ yrs, paying into his pension. Secure in the fact that when he retired he could live comfortably on a budget he had made. Well with the tiny fraction of his original pension that he was planning on that the pbgc pays he had to completely replan his retirement.

The PBGC does the best it can, but these companies and their officers that steal the security and hard earned money are the ones that should be punished!!!

Your example is what I was talking about.
The easy way out is to always blame the unions but the problem is much more complex than that and like I said before the UAW has made HUGE concessions for quite a while now, at some point there aint any meat left on the bones.

 

[RvUsa]

Your example is what I was talking about.
The easy way out is to always blame the unions but the problem is much more complex than that and like I said before the UAW has made HUGE concessions for quite a while now, at some point there aint any meat left on the bones.

Scott, it was exactly the same for my family, and most of the steel workers in our area. They gave back till they had nothing left to give, when they finally closed the plant, most of the men were making about $11 an hour after working there for more than 30 years. It has been the same for the Uaw I'm sure. It really makes me sad to think that some people blame the current problems of the automakers on the employees. The blame should be laid squarely on the feet of the management, and of the union leadership.

$20 million bonuses for one person who spends his days figuring out how to squander money, and where to take the next million dollar retreat, are the root of the problem. Managements feeling of entitlement at the cost the working person will ruin more than just the big 3, it killed the us steel industry last decade, what will be next?