Should ex help out with these expenses?

I would greatly prefer an 18 year old who recognizes and admits that they aren't ready or qualified to be behind the wheel of a car over a 16 year old who gets a license because they can.

I guess having lived in the city someone not having a driver's license doesn't seem like a foreign concept to me.
 
I would greatly prefer an 18 year old who recognizes and admits that they aren't ready or qualified to be behind the wheel of a car over a 16 year old who gets a license because they can.

I guess having lived in the city someone not having a driver's license doesn't seem like a foreign concept to me.
If you live in a large city with great public transport available it's not really an issue.
If you don't, then usually compromises need to be made.

I do think that it may be easier to supervise a 16 year old for a couple of years as they work on their driving skills. Regularly supervising an 18-20 year old may be more complicated, but it probably depends on the parent and older teen. Some adult kids want less supervision as they head to 20. That's great overall (if they are ready) but safe driving skills take time, practice and some coaching.

And obviously, if someone 18+ is not ready to drive and doesn't want to that's their call. They also need to understand it's not the parent's job to drive them everywhere. Lots of compromise would be called for.
This is quite different than someone who can't drive due to disabilities, etc. That would be handled differently by most parents.
 
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If you live in a large city with great public transport available it's not really an issue.
If you don't, then usually compromises need to be made.

I do think that it may be easier to supervise a 16 year old for a couple of years as they work on their driving skills. Regularly supervising an 18-20 year old may be more complicated, but it probably depends on the parent and older teen. Some adult kids want less supervision as they head to 20. That's great overall (if they are ready) but safe driving skills take time, practice and some coaching.

And obviously, if someone 18+ is not ready to drive and doesn't want to that's their call. They also need to understand it's not the parent's job to drive them everywhere. Lots of compromise would be called for.
This is quite different than someone who can't drive due to disabilities, etc. That would be handled differently by most parents.
Reading the last few posts that was my thought. For those that didn't get their licences until 18 or 19 were you still living at home?

I got mine at 17 but only about 2 months after my birthday so I was home for a good 9 months with a licence before going to college. This meant that after learning to drive on my permit in spring and summer the first few times I needed to go somewhere and it snowed I could get mom to at least come with me so if it was really bad she coudl take over and she could be there to tell me if I was doing something wrong.

If a kid gets their licence at 19 over the summer when home from college who is there to help them through driving in snow the first few times? People can say they just won't drive in snow but if you live somewhere where it snows alot that isn't always possible. Sometimes you get somewhere come out 2 hours later and there is a layer of snow on the roads and more falling already. If someone refused to drive in snow it would be very easy to get stranded at work or school.
 

OP, is it an option for your older daughter to ride her bike half way and you to drive her half? I used to ride my bike 10 miles back and forth from work. I did have my license, but as the child of a single mom, it wasn't in our finances (either hers or mine) to have an additional car for me, nor was it a priority for me to be spending the money I earned working on paying for car-related expenses. You could drive her and the bike to a certain point and she could continue from there and do the reverse after work. Just another thought, as I hadn't seen it brought up. Or is it possible to driver her to a point where she could pick up public transportation? My boys used to take summer courses in Boston and I would drive them half way to a T stop as it was less expensive than taking the local commuter rail AND the T.

I understand about the driving. I have an 18 year old and a 16 year old, both have permits, but the 18 year old is a more nervous driver, not as proactive in getting in the drivers seat for lessons (from me, not a driving school, which he doesn't want to pay for), while the 16 year old is much more confident and proactive, asking almost daily if we can get out there to practice. Don't feel a need to explain why you DD doesn't have her license; it's very personal and only you and your daughter are able to make that decision for what's best for her.

I do hope you find a solution that works for you financially and time-wise. I used to spend 4+ hours a day driving my kids to private school, not to mention about $600/month (when gas was $4/gallon). It's a huge time-commitment, and even though you have your summer off, it doesn't mean that you should be spending such a large portion being a chauffeur to your kids.
 
I would greatly prefer an 18 year old who recognizes and admits that they aren't ready or qualified to be behind the wheel of a car over a 16 year old who gets a license because they can.

I guess having lived in the city someone not having a driver's license doesn't seem like a foreign concept to me.


It is an entirely different calculus in a suburban or rural area when you're farther from everything with no reasonable mass transit available. It's just not an option here to not drive.

Some kids have legitimate reasons to delay. Others just shy away from big new things. It's a tricky job for parents to figure out which it is and nudge the reluctant driver out at the right time.
 
you're daughter should be giving you gas money out of her paycheck. Does she at least have her permit at her age she should be driving herself to work.

I would think a teacher would realize that all children/people are different and their abilities are different at different times in their lives.
 
you're daughter should be giving you gas money out of her paycheck. Does she at least have her permit at her age she should be driving herself to work.

OP stated there are reasons her child can't get her license now

There could be very legitimate medical reasons why she can't have a license right now. My uncle, who did have his license, for example, had to stop driving because of vision loss. He was an adult and able to work, but not able to drive himself.
 
Oh I agree about the safe driver, and things have changed a LOT since we got our driver's licenses in our teens. We went through driver's training and then had no restrictions at all on our licenses. Now there is a lot more extensive training, and even night time training, and a lot of restrictions on kids getting their first driver's licenses which I do think is a good thing.

And I agree about feeling more confident about driving in a rural area, except I do get a bit nervous driving at dusk when deer are more apt to run into the road. I hate city driving, and don't do it if at all possible. I remember last October when my Mom had her stroke and was in the hospital in Lansing (state capitol) and I had to drive there a few times, it was awful and made me so nervous!! I'm even getting more nervous just about driving on the highway. So many crazy/distracted drivers. :(

Haha, I thought I was done with narrowly missing deer when I left my rural mid-Michigan town.

Now I live in the fairly close western suburbs of the 3rd largest city in the US, and wouldn't you know it - we are surrounded by Forest Preserves and deer galore. DD and I just saw one not to long ago just standing in the middle of the oncoming lane on our way home from Target. And I've had about 3-4 jump out in front of my car in the 6 years we have lived here. That's more than I've ever had in MI, although I do have to say that DH did hit one once....

DS16 just turned 16 on June 29th and hasn't even taken driver's training yet. In our state, the school age cutoff has been Sept 1 for years, so he is just about the youngest in his grade every year. The way the school's DT works is, oldest gets priority. So DS didn't get in last year - and I think he even missed the June 1 age cutoff anyway, and then he got a concussion, and 6 weeks later tore his right shoulder labrum (and now nerve damage, as we found out yesterday at the Dr) and went through months of PT, then surgery and 5 months of recovery. He is just now starting to feel comfortable thinking he can navigate a vehicle. And the summer session is over already, so we will have to do private driver's training for about $200 more. Once he finishes, he will have to do 50 hours of behind the wheel driving with me or DH signing off, and wait 9 months before he is allowed to get his license. He should get it just in time for his 17th birthday. That seems to be pretty normal around here - all of his friends have been getting their licenses around 16 1/2-17. He doesn't feel left out at all.
 
1st, yes, if he were a good father he would pay and pay willingly. What good parent would not want their child, regardless of divorce, to have the advantages of being in a financially stable environment? From someone who collects child support I will tell you that child support isn't a thing that is being used to punish the other parent. It is to make sure the children live as well as they would if the parents were together.

2nd, I would NEVER put my child in the middle between myself and his/her father. I would not make my minor child go to his/her father begging for money for this or that. That is manipulative using the kid because you know the other parent will feel guilty. Financial decisions are supposed to be made after a discussion between 2 parents. That shouldn't top just because they are not together.

3rd, the OP did try to get her daughters' father to help physically, rather than monetarily by having the girls spend the night at his home a few nights a week as he lives nearer to the job/camp. He refused. Remember, legally we can make the bio pay, we cannot make them parent.

4th. That money for camp did not go to the OP. It did not benefit the OP, it was for his child. For something that was important to his child and may positively impact his child's future. The OP, in no way (other than having a happy child) benefitted from that money.

I do not have a dog in this race, but I always have an opinion. LOL!

I do not approve of any parent tell a child no to extra's such as camp or sports just because they can or becuase they insist that CS goes for that. I do understand that there are times when a parent simply cannot afford the extra. As a single Mom who did not have an ex to go to, I said no when I needed to. My kids understood that they could not always have what they wanted, even if the want had merit. I gave what I could. Divorce does not change that living expenses sometimes mean that kids don't get all they want. I know that many times children of divorce seem to pay that price more often, and they had no choice in the decision their parents had to make, but two households cost twice what one does.

As children grow up they need to learn how to discuss with adults, even their own parents, how to pitch a proposal. Mine did, as does my DGD. DD has insisted for years she do this with teachers and with her and Dad. DD helps her through the process, but at 14 DGD has learned how to approach an adult with a clearly outlined plan for what she either wants or needs. I see no reason, unless a parent gets nasty, why teens cannot approach a parent if they want to do something "extra". They should be taught to think the entire project though so all angles are covered. In this case, even Mom did not think it through. I am not going to speculate how many times Dad has agreed to pay for something and then gotten hit for additional expenses. I will tell you that I love my kids, but no way would that happen to me more then one time. I had a finite amount of money. If I allocated a certain amount to something but then was told I needed more because my kids, and in this case their parent, did nto consider total cost, and this was not the first time, I would be angry. Sometimes people refuse to consider the entire picture because if they do, the proposal would fail. We call it "cost plus" and I hate it. Give me a cost, and be honest. If you are not, you pay the additional fees. Next time, when it may really count, you will not be so shortsighted.

I have no idea why the father refused to have the girls stay. If my kids were not in my home daily, I would have moved Heaven and Earth to have them. I will say that I would need to know more before I jumped to the conclusion the OP ex was choosing not to parent. I read the entire thread, but perception is everything. I have friends who are divorced, and neither one can see the other's POV. The truth is that somewhere in between both of their peceptions is where the reality lies, but to them? YIKES!

I wish that there was a real way to make people understand that CS is not used for wine and cheese for the custodial parent, but since we all have heard horror stories about abused CS funds, that tale seems to be in place. It is my opinion that many times the non custodial parent wants the other to forego a life that includes some niceties.

It is too late for the OP to make too many changes here, but I will say that this kind of thing is not going to end even when their DD's are over 21. Both are going to need or to want to manage extras for them, and in order to do that they will need to be specific at the get go in terms of who is paying for what and how much each is committing to pay. I figure that this "learning experience" for the OP will make sure that as a family they all become more adept at planning their extra expanses with an eye to the "intangibles" that pop into the picture.
 
This is not directed to the OP, its just part of the ongoing conversation about driving at 18.

I can understand an 18 year old not being comfortable driving, my own dd did not get her license until she was 18. However, there comes a time when a parent has to stop being 100% responsible for their child and IMO its 18, even before that. An 18 year old should be the one figuring out how he/she will be transported to somewhere, and if they are going to rely on their parent they should discuss all of that before committing to something, like a job.

We held off on forcing my dd to get her license but the deal was that I was not driving her to her college classes. Knowing that, we worked with her to get her comfortable driving. That meant taking her out as often as we could, and even doing private lessons.
Had she decided that she wasn't going to get her license then finding a way to the college was on her. That could mean taking public transportation, asking friends or parents for rides but if they can't she would need to figure something out. The college has a campus near us that offers some classes, she could have tried to get as many classes there and walk.
I just don't think its fair, to the parent or to the young adult to rely on mom or dad to just drive them because they assume that is what mom and dad should be doing for them.
Figuring out this kind of stuff is part of being an adult, by 18 they need to be doing that.
 
It seems that several posters are blaming the 18-year-old for not working out her own transportation issues. How is asking, "Hey, Mom, if I take this job, can you drive me?" NOT making arrangements?

She asked, and the OP said okay and didn't request gas money. Now the OP is unhappy, but frankly, that's not the daughter's fault.

Going forward, the OP and her daughter now know what is too much to ask of the OP, and the daughter now realizes that she can't depend on her mom giving her rides if the job is too far.
 
It seems that several posters are blaming the 18-year-old for not working out her own transportation issues. How is asking, "Hey, Mom, if I take this job, can you drive me?" NOT making arrangements?

She asked, and the OP said okay and didn't request gas money. Now the OP is unhappy, but frankly, that's not the daughter's fault.

Going forward, the OP and her daughter now know what is too much to ask of the OP, and the daughter now realizes that she can't depend on her mom giving her rides if the job is too far.


I agree with that. I think if a parent decides to live out in the boonies, it's sort of incumbent on the parents to go the extra mile with transportation. I understand the OP says the daughter is not ready to drive, so once that is off the table as an option, it's back in her court.

Honestly, at our house if someone was off (for the day, week or summer) that person would be doing whatever running the kids required during that day. There would be no attempt to split it.

OP needs to look at the situation for next year and decide:

1) daughter is a year older and finally ready to drive
2) tell daughters to change what they are doing
3) ask ex husband for gas money before the kids commit to their activities.

Or that leaves her with just sucking it up and doing it.
 
Reading the last few posts that was my thought. For those that didn't get their licences until 18 or 19 were you still living at home?

I got mine at 17 but only about 2 months after my birthday so I was home for a good 9 months with a licence before going to college. This meant that after learning to drive on my permit in spring and summer the first few times I needed to go somewhere and it snowed I could get mom to at least come with me so if it was really bad she coudl take over and she could be there to tell me if I was doing something wrong.

If a kid gets their licence at 19 over the summer when home from college who is there to help them through driving in snow the first few times? People can say they just won't drive in snow but if you live somewhere where it snows alot that isn't always possible. Sometimes you get somewhere come out 2 hours later and there is a layer of snow on the roads and more falling already. If someone refused to drive in snow it would be very easy to get stranded at work or school.
My then boyfriend, now husband taught me to drive when I was 20. The first time we got a good snow storm after that he drove us out to a big, empty church parking lot and had me drive for about an hour--first just getting used to how to stop and go on ice, etc and then putting it into skids nad getting back out of htem, then backing up, etc.
Honestly, my parents would not have thought of that, and just being in the car with them telling me what to do would not have helped me get better at driving in inclimate weather, IMO.
 
If you lived in NYC it would be perfectly normal not to own a car much later then if you live in the middle of no where.

This.

I just turned 37. Grew up in NYC. Never learned how to drive. My parents never learned how to drive. My sister never learned how to friend. My boyfriend who also grew up in NYC never learned how to drive.

We don't expect other people to drive us places. We plan our lives accordingly. If it became a hardship, I'd learn how to drive.
 
This.

I just turned 37. Grew up in NYC. Never learned how to drive. My parents never learned how to drive. My sister never learned how to friend. My boyfriend who also grew up in NYC never learned how to drive.

We don't expect other people to drive us places. We plan our lives accordingly. If it became a hardship, I'd learn how to drive.

Does anyone else watch Odd Mom Out? The above totally reminds me of a recent episode, where Jill finally had to learn to drive (spoiler - it didn't go well).

OP- glad you were able to come up with somewhat of a solution for this summer. Good lesson learned for next. How will DD18 get to and from college on breaks?
 
Does anyone else watch Odd Mom Out? The above totally reminds me of a recent episode, where Jill finally had to learn to drive (spoiler - it didn't go well).

OP- glad you were able to come up with somewhat of a solution for this summer. Good lesson learned for next. How will DD18 get to and from college on breaks?


Probably the same way our son does. He drives but doesn't have his own car. We go get him (7 hours round trip) or he finds rides home with friends and pays them for gas.
 
Probably the same way our son does. He drives but doesn't have his own car. We go get him (7 hours round trip) or he finds rides home with friends and pays them for gas.
yep--even when I did drive in college I did not own a car, and my oldest who is in college now niether drives, nor owns a car----but it is not so hard to find a ride, lots of people love to have someone else along to chip in for gas money---and I do admit my oldest is lucky to have extended family in the area who have been very willign to help out too---but without that we could always fall back on paying a shuttle service from the airport if need be (which is cheaper than a car, insurance and gas anyway)
 
I know its too late for this year, but for your older DD for next year, you might consider on-staff at a camp. My DD knew she needed a job for the summer and she applied for a staff position at a camp. She is paid weekly and then she also gets room and board, plus they paid for her to get her life guard permit. She reported memorial day and gets home in 2 weeks. Her school starts the day after Labor Day, but she has to report 2 weeks before that because she is also an RA and she works in the Deans office during the school year.

The point of all of this is that because my DD knows she doesn't have transportation she found work where she didn't need to drive.

As for the camp, I have spent my share of time waiting. My kids seem to be in every activity that didn't have an end time so I spent lots of time finding things to do while waiting. Indiana isn't a pleasant place to be in the summer waiting during girls golf season and winter waiting for show choir season. When the weather was OK, I would walk parking lots, when the weather wasn't, I would read in my car or find someplace like a fast food place, library or my car to read.

I know this is too late for this year, but you might consider for next year.
 
It seems that several posters are blaming the 18-year-old for not working out her own transportation issues. How is asking, "Hey, Mom, if I take this job, can you drive me?" NOT making arrangements?

She asked, and the OP said okay and didn't request gas money. Now the OP is unhappy, but frankly, that's not the daughter's fault.

Going forward, the OP and her daughter now know what is too much to ask of the OP, and the daughter now realizes that she can't depend on her mom giving her rides if the job is too far.

I don't know if people are actually blaming the DD or if many questioned why the DD was not paying. I do think that this is a powerful lesson for all of them. Jobs cost money, just as you earn it you need to allocate funds to supporting the job.

OT, but many times when I tell someone how much money goes to supporting a second income I get a surpised look. Even on two paent households, a second income may not generate as much as the dollar per hour indicates that it will, so before you accept a position you eally need to look at all the costs associated with the job itself. Child care, transportation, clothing, convenience foods, etc. A neighbor had taken a job delivering a weekly paper and we live in a real community. The costs of gas and wear and tear on her car ended up outweighing what she had earned. WHen we talked about it she refused to consider the damage all the starts and stops would do, but the repair bill a year later had her beyond upset. I refrained from saying "I told you so."
 





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