Should ex help out with these expenses?

[Jennasis]

An 18 year old who cannot drive for whatever reason is totally fine...but an 18 year old expecting mom to chauffeur her to and from work, not-so-much. Time to ask the 18 year old to chip in...not the ex.

As for the 15 year old, it would be nice if the ex would help out, but it sounds like he has demonstrated his unwillingness to pitch in. He's not obligated to unfortunately and he's not going to do it out of love or kindness, which blows.

Have the chat with your adult daughter about gas costs...or about finding a job that is more convenient for you.

 

[smadath]

When I was 14, I was in a bad car accident with my Mom driving.

When I was 15, I was in a car accident with my Dad driving. (and Mom as a passenger)

When I was 16, all my friends ran out to get their license, and I said Nope! Not Happening.

When I socialized, friends drove. When I got a part-time job, Mom and Dad drove.

When I turned 17, Parents said taxi service is closed! (I offered gas money... still No) Carpool or get your license. So, after a drivers ed course, I got my license.

Had my parents insisted at any time, I would have balked and probably never gotten it. But, humoring me for a while then ending the "taxi service" was incentive enough.

My long winded point being, I was ready when I was ready, and not before. If anyone had pushed me out the door to get it, I's probably still not be driving! (I'm mid-40's)

 

[DisneyMomx7]

Just wanted to add that in NJ child support continues through college. I'm surprised that so many states seem to end at 18

 

[GaryDis]

In the FWIW department, here's the National Conference of State Legislatures web page on the age of majority, emancipation, and child support for each state. Keep in mind that these are all separate concepts, so that the age of majority, age of emancipation, and age for termination of child support can be different. And I'm pretty sure the entry for Massachusetts isn't quite right, and that parental obligations for college expenses can continue past age 21. But you'll see a number of states where child support continues past 18.

I do get frustrated when people forget the degree to which laws vary from state to state. As well as forgetting the immense variation we have among our communities.

 

[ziravan]

I was a child support payer for well over a decade. So, perspective from the other side of the aisle.

It shouldn't be the case, but child support is often an ongoing weapon. "If he were a good father, he'd pay..." is a guilt trip. I used to say if I turned over my check to my ex, she'd complain that the IRS took some of it first.

Paying you child support money is so overloaded with the emotional baggage of divorce that hell yes, he's resistant to paying more.

But. And this is the point I wanted to make: his children are 15 and 18. They can ask him for help directly and that help is much more likely to be forthcoming if it's not being filtered through you.

Think of ways where he can help them directly without putting more money in your hands or granting your monetary desires and you might be more successful.

For example, he paid his share of DD15's program. Why? For starters he didn't have to give that money to Y. O. U. Believe me, that matters.

 

[roseaster]

I was a child support payer for well over a decade. So, perspective from the other side of the aisle.

It shouldn't be the case, but child support is often an ongoing weapon. "If he were a good father, he'd pay..." is a guilt trip. I used to say if I turned over my check to my ex, she'd complain that the IRS took some of it first.

Paying you child support money is so overloaded with the emotional baggage of divorce that hell yes, he's resistant to paying more.

But. And this is the point I wanted to make: his children are 15 and 18. They can ask him for help directly and that help is much more likely to be forthcoming if it's not being filtered through you.

Think of ways where he can help them directly without putting more money in your hands or granting your monetary desires and you might be more successful.

For example, he paid his share of DD15's program. Why? For starters he didn't have to give that money to Y. O. U. Believe me, that matters.

1st, yes, if he were a good father he would pay and pay willingly. What good parent would not want their child, regardless of divorce, to have the advantages of being in a financially stable environment? From someone who collects child support I will tell you that child support isn't a thing that is being used to punish the other parent. It is to make sure the children live as well as they would if the parents were together.

2nd, I would NEVER put my child in the middle between myself and his/her father. I would not make my minor child go to his/her father begging for money for this or that. That is manipulative using the kid because you know the other parent will feel guilty. Financial decisions are supposed to be made after a discussion between 2 parents. That shouldn't top just because they are not together.

3rd, the OP did try to get her daughters' father to help physically, rather than monetarily by having the girls spend the night at his home a few nights a week as he lives nearer to the job/camp. He refused. Remember, legally we can make the bio pay, we cannot make them parent.

4th. That money for camp did not go to the OP. It did not benefit the OP, it was for his child. For something that was important to his child and may positively impact his child's future. The OP, in no way (other than having a happy child) benefitted from that money.

 

[Party.Of.4-NY>>>FL]

Just wanted to add that in NJ child support continues through college. I'm surprised that so many states seem to end at 18

Yep same here in NY. As long they're in college, someone's getting paid child support.

 

[gwynne]

I was a child support payer for well over a decade. So, perspective from the other side of the aisle.

It shouldn't be the case, but child support is often an ongoing weapon. "If he were a good father, he'd pay..." is a guilt trip. I used to say if I turned over my check to my ex, she'd complain that the IRS took some of it first.

Paying you child support money is so overloaded with the emotional baggage of divorce that hell yes, he's resistant to paying more.

But. And this is the point I wanted to make: his children are 15 and 18. They can ask him for help directly and that help is much more likely to be forthcoming if it's not being filtered through you.

Think of ways where he can help them directly without putting more money in your hands or granting your monetary desires and you might be more successful.

For example, he paid his share of DD15's program. Why? For starters he didn't have to give that money to Y. O. U. Believe me, that matters.

I put the points that concerned me in boldface in the quote.
I think the adults should make it their business to work the money stuff out themselves. Children and teens should not be placed in the middle of their parent's unpleasant money issues.

 

[NHdisneylover]

Hmmm- I don't think it is right to put kid in the middle of actual child support disputes or issues about who has to pay for needed things---but I think it is reasonable to have older teens discuss with both parents who is covering costs for extras they want--wether those parents are still married or not.

 

[Aliceacc]

Agreed, this summer is a done deal, there's not much you can do. And you apparently have good reasons why your daughter doesn't drive, also a done deal. As is the law in NY on child support.

For next summer, I wonder if your older daughter might find work on campus?

Likewise, I think that your younger daughter needs to reconsider for next year. She can't make plans that involve her being stranded in an unsafe part of the city until you can get to her. Maybe she could do lots of -- something-- babysitting, work at or near school??-- and save for a sleep away theater program next year?

One thing I would add in: the line about the ex's reasons for not letting the girls sleep over were supposition, not fact. As I read it, we don't really know why he doesn't want them to sleep over.

Good luck OP!!

 

[Chocolate Cake]

One thing I would add in: the line about the ex's reasons for not letting the girls sleep over were supposition, not fact. As I read it, we don't really know why he doesn't want them to sleep over.

Good luck OP!!

But what would be a good reason for not allowing your own children to stay with you? Is there one?

 

[kamik86]

Hmmm- I don't think it is right to put kid in the middle of actual child support disputes or issues about who has to pay for needed things---but I think it is reasonable to have older teens discuss with both parents who is covering costs for extras they want--wether those parents are still married or not.

Agree with this.

My parents weren't divorced and sometimes if I asked mom if I could do something expensive the answer was still "Ask your father about it first". My parents lived together and had no problems talking but they still considered it my responsibility to sell to both parents why it is worth while to pay for that thing I wanted to do.

I don't see why that would be an issue just because the parents were split up.

Yes if you were talking about making a 15 year old beg dad for money for food ok that is stupid and putting the kid in the middle. However the kid isn't going to have a badly life impacting effect from not getting to go to camp.

 

[kamik86]

But what would be a good reason for not allowing your own children to stay with you? Is there one?

1) don't live in a good neighborhood
2) don't have adequate space for the kids when they are there

Just the first two things that crossed my mind.

 

[gwynne]

Agree with this.

My parents weren't divorced and sometimes if I asked mom if I could do something expensive the answer was still "Ask your father about it first". My parents lived together and had no problems talking but they still considered it my responsibility to sell to both parents why it is worth while to pay for that thing I wanted to do.

I don't see why that would be an issue just because the parents were split up.

Yes if you were talking about making a 15 year old beg dad for money for food ok that is stupid and putting the kid in the middle. However the kid isn't going to have a badly life impacting effect from not getting to go to camp.

It's an issue because some parents want to work together, some totally don't. If the parents are still angry, disrespectful and nasty to one another then the child or teen is regularly in the middle of the constant ire. I can't stress enough how hard this is on kids. It can be so painful to the kids to hear frequent and repeated negativity about the other parent's lifestyle, companion, late support and so on. It's not the kids fault. Any of it.
It's not always a simple ask, especially if the kids know it's about to open an ugly can of worms.
If the parents are making a regular effort to work together, watch what they say, watch their tone and so on it's much easier on the kids.


Your parents had a strategy that worked for them, and that's what matters. There are lots of ways to team up raising kids. The main thing is that it works so much better if the parents understand they need to be a team, married or divorced.

 

[Aliceacc]

But what would be a good reason for not allowing your own children to stay with you? Is there one?

I have no idea. Maybe his next door neighbor is a predator. Maybe there's been an upsurge in violent crime in his neighborhood. Maybe his hours are so crazy that he's not comfortable leaving the girls alone.

My point is that we really don't know.

 

[Chocolate Cake]

I just don't think there is a good reason for any parent to deny their child access to their home. Bad neighborhood? Move. Predator? Move. Stop playing golf (per OP), give up on the girlfriends, and better your life so you aren't a deadbeat. Yes. If you can't have your children at your own home, you are a deadbeat.


If you want your children to visit you, you will make it work.

 

[luvsJack]

Op, I get it. My ex wouldn't help out even when the kids were visiting him. We had to go get them from his house to take them to games, practice, etc. So he added to the gas bill rather than helping it. But, you just do what you have to do.

Honestly, before my kids started driving, I didn't let them get a job because it just made more work for me. But I don't blame you for the arrangement with your dd either. I think asking her to pitch in on gas is a good comprimise.

Not sure why anyone has made the getting child support for an 18 year old an issue. Many people recieve it-or it goes to the child-for several years beyond 18 while the child is in college.

I do think the pp speaking from the man's pov, has some merit. There is some resentment from men paying child support. Not necessarily because they don't want to support their child but because they feel picked apart. Some see their ex affording things they can't because they have to pay child support. Its not usually a feeling toward their kids but toward their ex. Not saying they should feel that way, just that they do.

 

[kamik86]

I just don't think there is a good reason for any parent to deny their child access to their home. Bad neighborhood? Move. Predator? Move. Stop playing golf (per OP), give up on the girlfriends, and better your life so you aren't a deadbeat. Yes. If you can't have your children at your own home, you are a deadbeat.


If you want your children to visit you, you will make it work.

As someone that doesn't have kids and never had divorced parents so I have no emotional response to any of this (I think many people do which is why you will get such wide views where some thing no amount of money is ever enough if your kids want anything and some thing anything is the other parent sucking them dry...)

This makes no sense to me. Running two households is more expensive then 1. One of the large reasons for child support is for housing. The idea being that it allows the custodial parent to make sure they can afford a large safe enough location for the children. Also to make sure the custodial parent can work few enough hours or hire someone to make sure all kids are adequately supervised.

Lets take a hypothetical set of parents Bob and Sue with children Sarah and Jane. (Because I don't want to make assumptions about OPs exact situation or pick it apart)

If both parents need to maintain that same standard at all time then I would think alot less child support would be due. (Lets go traditional and say Sue has custody) Because then Bob still be having to keep his house to that standard as well which means he is spending money on the kids too (and if the kids are living with him part time also on food and everything else for the kids). Lets say Bob and Sue make enough money where they could together afford a really nice home with plenty of space somewhere safe. But seperately if they split the money both houses would be small or in a less good neighborhood, so the kids would have to share a room.

Given that the kids are close by visiting doesn't mean necessarily staying the night or being unsupervised (since that wouldn't be visiting with Bob if Bob wasn't there). So instead it seems to me to make sense for Bob to pay Sue child support to have a larger house in a very family friendly location. Bob would then be free to take an apartment that is smaller in an area that is close to the city where the jobs are. Bob can't have the kids stay with him since he doesn't have space and the area isn't too safe especically as the kids aren't comfortable in the city, but he can easily see them regulary.

I think Bob could be a great father that is doing best for his kids even while not living somewhere he is comfrotable having them stay over.

 

[kamik86]

I do think the pp speaking from the man's pov, has some merit. There is some resentment from men paying child support. Not necessarily because they don't want to support their child but because they feel picked apart. Some see their ex affording things they can't because they have to pay child support. Its not usually a feeling toward their kids but toward their ex. Not saying they should feel that way, just that they do.

It may not even JUST be this.

I know if I'm going to give someone something I would rather give them something specific then just money. I wonder if some Dad's feel that way about child support. When they pay just child support to the mom they have no say in what it goes for. When they pay for the theatre program or sports program a child wants to do they know exactly what they gave their child and that their child is definitely getting something specific they really enjoy or even really need (like braces).

I fully understand that some child support has to go to more entangibles, but espeically for extras behind child support I can definitely see someone viewing it as a gift they rather spend for X specific thing.

 

[Mickeyluver37]

I just don't think there is a good reason for any parent to deny their child access to their home. Bad neighborhood? Move. Predator? Move. Stop playing golf (per OP), give up on the girlfriends, and better your life so you aren't a deadbeat. Yes. If you can't have your children at your own home, you are a deadbeat.


If you want your children to visit you, you will make it work.

I couldn't agree more. Issues about bad neighborhood and space could have been addressed before he moved there. He is their parent just as much as the OP is. Would it be her ok for her to up and move and not have space, safety, (insert lame excuse here) for their children?