Should Disney make an effort to stop "saving"?

Meezers said:
The only thing in the whole thread I disagree with. Didn't Walt himself say it's for children of all ages?

Fortunately Uncle Walt knew better than that other poster:

"You're dead if you aim only for kids. Adults are only kids grown up, anyway." - Walt Disney
 
Seems like most of the problems mentioned here are with "teenagers"....not those with family...but the packs similar to those at 6 flags (blech!).

Luckily I have a very "grumpy" looking brother who just glares and these packs go away...thank goodness.

Oh....saving a table for eating on is one thing...saving it just so you and your "posse" can be obnoxious is another....

Having lived many years in Europe I am pretty comfortable with asking if I can share a table that has an empty seat...or offering my empty seats to another party....you meet the coolest people this way. Met the nicest young boy at MGM....he was being allowed to visit a park by himself for the first time (guess he was about 12)....our last day so gave him my last meal voucher for CS...he was thrilled....just a nice kid...good to know they still exist.

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming!
 
MouseWorshipin said:
I have had it with the "We need to join the rest of our party" excuse for cutting in line! If the group is determined to ride together, let the ones in the front move back.

No more Mrs. Nice guy!

Handing a two year old to a Mom who waited an hour for Dumbo is another story.
:flower:


That's all I'm looking for :teeth: Cheaters are weak, when you know their tricks before they can catch you off guard.

Just want everyone to spread the word.

Its the 106k nice people, that can slow-down the 3k rude people. We just need to talk about it.
 
Gee folks, do we really need more rules? I think a little common sense can go a long way. If a kid is trying to catch up with a mom, or even two kids, so what? It doesnt really cost me a whole lot. On the other hand if a group of teenagers or adults tries to pull a fast one, well, I think we can all agree, thats crossing the line, no pun intended, well maybe a little... :sunny:
 

Daxx said:
Yeah, but unfortunately, this is never going to change.

And, while I might make my "asides", I'm sure not going to get kicked out of WDW for starting something w/a line cheater or spot saver.

All very good points, and sadly true. :guilty:

But an extra voice from the crowd is enough to start a few other people complaining. Many times its just waiting for one person to speak up. (I"m not asking anyone to start a fight... but as someone passes you in line... you might want to warn people ahead of you - "line cheat coming" pirate:

I wish I had that quote - something like - "Evil exist in the absent of good people speaking up" :grouphug:
 
Daryl said:
Gee folks, do we really need more rules? I think a little common sense can go a long way. :sunny:

No more rules. Just help fixing a rule that is getting played more often with a old game.

Common sense is the answer.

If we talk....that common sense is shared with more people :wave:
 
EAP'sDAD said:
The people who drive me crazy or the rude people who walk in front of you when you are waiting for a show or parade. we always get our spot early, we use it as a break and get a snack and relax. Then you see that family who waited to the last minute and push their way in front of you. Last year we were at the MGM parade sitting on the sidewalk by where the parade ends. Just as we see the parade coning a women with her three kids tries to put her kids in front of us on the street. i politely told her we were here and please move down the street. well she turns to her son and says just walk in front of them. I give her a look and said not to bother. I then offer to allow her small son to take my spot and I would put my DS on my lap, (Disney is for the kids anyways) the kid sits and she says not a word of thanks. My Dw couldn't beleive how rude this lady was but I would not let it ruin the rest of my day.

We had the same thing happen to us last week. We were standing in Frontierland waiting for the 12:30 parade and about 2 minutes into the parade a family shoved 5 of their kids into mine. Then they proceeded to swap parents out, one to video tape and one to take stills. About 1/3 of the way through the parade the grandmother told the oldest girl to push over into me so the parents could get better shots. Now most of the time I would have made room for the kids but not this time, I'm 7 months pregnant and about the 3rd time they shoved me into DH I shoved back into the mother. I was not going to get shoved to the ground and risk hurting myself or one of my kids.
 
On our last trip in September, we had people cut in line in front of us at least 3 times. Nearly every time, we were rewarded with the satisfaction of seeing the 'cutters' delayed by something, be it a broken down car, waiting for a disabled person to be loaded or, in the case of where 2 queues formed when loading, they ended up behind. Me and DH came up with a new saying - Cutters never prosper. I don't think there is anything we can do to stop it while some people are prepared to allow it to happen. For me, I find it intolerable but don't like to risk causing a scene by trying to stop it so I usually just keep quiet. In a particularly bad cutting scenario at Rock n Roller Coaster, where 4 rude teenagers cut in front of us by barging past me and my DH, we did happily wave to them when they got held up at the front of the line and me and DH managed to get on the next car.
 
When it comes to finding a table while one of us gets food for all 4, I have done this many times at the mall, or other FF places, and think its better than having 3 ppl in the way of 1 trying to get a tray full to the table. Also this way, the person with the tray of food doesnt have to hunt forr a place to put it down. To me, thats just common sense.

When it comes to holding a place in line, I see a strong distinction between 2 people in a group of 4 leaving the line for bathroom or a drink and coming back in plenty of time to rejoin the other 2, and 1 person holding a placee in line for countless others. If 2 ppl are holding the line for 2 more, first of all, they will still ride in the same ^car^ much of the time. Secondly, I would truly appreciate a family of 4 sending the impatient tot out of line with a parent or older sibling until closer in line. I dont need to watch someone elses 2 y old jumping around like a monkey, or having a tizzy.

Its just my opinion, and I realize that not everyone sees things this way :grouphug:
 
My own line cutting story, on Rock and Roller Coaster (exerpted from my Sept 2001 trip report):

After the pre-show, the small group of people waiting entered the queue; but one young woman rushed on ahead... only to be stopped by the CMs, who told her "No, if I put you in the ride, I can't save eight seats for the rest of your party to sit with you, you have to wait for them." So she waited all of twenty seconds for the rest of her party. Frank and I were about the fifth and sixth people, so we got a seat toward the front of the car; the impatient young woman and her party wound up in the rear of the same car.

A word here about rude guests. It was one thing when the young woman rushed past us, bumping a few people in her haste to get to the front of the line (I laughed out loud at the poetic justice of her being forced to wait for the rest of her party). But the moment her butt hit the seat, she started screaming at the top of her lungs like it was a real Aerosmith concert. And she kept on screaming through the entire ride! Not 'Whoo-Hoo! or Yippeee!. No, she screamed like someone falling off a cliff; she screamed like Jamie Lee Curtis in a cheap slasher flick; she screamed so loud, and so long, that I literally could not hear the Aerosmith music during the ride. It was beyond annoying, it was physically painful. How anyone could be so rude to an entire 'limo' of fellow guests is beyond me.
 
Using the Fast Pass system will solve most of your complaints, won't it?
 
I agree with you. I don't like the whole "saving" thing. Especially when in line for rides; it is just rude! If everyone in your party isn't ready to get in line; then you should wait until they are.

Regarding table saving; that is a little more grey. When you have a family with say, 3 small kids, I would rather see mom and those kids sitting down instead of jumping all over the line.

For the bus stops; I think it would be great if all bus stops had corrals. I love staying at POFQ but when the stop gets busy it's a very herding and pushing mentality when the bus comes.

Personally, I do not save places in line, nor do I save tables. It's just not my style.
 
Here's a protocol question:

If there is a queue to get your picture taken with a character, would you consider it okay for me to stand in line while my 3 year old and husband stand off to the side admiring the character in action, and then for my 3 year old to step up when I reach the front of the line? This will not affect the number of pictures we take at all (I'm certainly not planning on getting my picture taken individually with Mickey Mouse!), so it won't hold anyone up...but I don't want to do anything that might be perceived as rude.

(I'm assuming here that people queue up to do meet and greets, though I must admit I haven't been to Disney since the 1980s!)

:) TiggerandBelleFanMom
 
While there is still widespread cutting at WDW, we did notice alot more "enforcement" by cast members. While we where waiting in line to see Mickey and his friends at the Character Connection at Epcot, an older woman and a teenage girl cut underneath the ropes and started to head towards Minnie Mouse. The cast memebr stopped them and asked them to return to the back of line. They explained that they just wanted to see Pluto and then they would be leaving, but the cast member still advised them that they would have to wait in line. Although they didn't cause a big scene, they were upset that they had to wait in line just to see one character.

Another incident happened during the tree lighting at Epcot. We arrived early enough to be about 4 people back from the stage and my DD9 had a good view, but there was space between her and the people in front of her. The show had already started and this woman and two kids push past me. I didn't think anything about it until my daughter steps back and tells me that she took up the space that was in front of her. I was recording the show and you can hear me getting onto her on tape, I stepped forward an tapped her on the shoulder and told her that she needed to move because she came up from the back and stood right in front of my DD and now she can't see. The woman wasn't real upset, but she did make the comment that I didn't have to "hit" her. I was beyond upset by then, and told her that I didn't hit her, I only tapped her on the shoulder. She did move, not sure where or where her kids were.

As far as the space between my DD and the people in front of her, she did this so that she could up and over the kids that were in front of her and who says that we have to watch the shows like a can of sardines anyway.

On the flip side, we did save "our" spots for Spectromagic. We all arrived on Main Street and took our seats on the curb and we then allowed our children to go shopping on Main Street one at a time. I even took my time away from the curb to do a little shopping. I mean we did claim our spots about 1 1/2 hours ahead of the scheduled parade time.
 
Daxx said:
How can I say this w/o coming across as a meanie, insensitive or disrespectful to those in wheelchairs!?!? B/c I don't mean any disrespect as I have a few handicapped family members.

I don't mind that handicapped people get fast access to the rides ... but what frosts me is the "entourage" of 25 people who all escort the person in the wheelchair to the handicapped waiting area. These "entourages" really frost my cookies. I can understand wanting to share a ride w/the wheelchair person and understand that b/c someone in a wheelchair, they're prohibited from most of the main entrances and I totally respect that.
What you saw is not typical (the exception rather than the rule).
Most of the rides/attractions are accessible thru the regular line - that is called Mainstream Access. (So, in most cases, someone with a wheelchair is NOT prohibited from the main entrance).
AK and the Studio were built with Mainstream access and all the attractions at those 2 parks have Mainstream Access; there are no handicapped entrances.
MK and Epcot are obviously older and were not particularly accessible when they were built. When possible, they have added Mainstream Access to attractions as they renovated them. There are some attractions (mostly in MK) that didn't have the room to add Mainstream Access.
Theme Parks can actually be fined for sending people with disabilities thru another way of entry when the ride is Mainstream Accessible.

Some attractions can't be boarded by people using wheelchairs/ecvs at the regular entrance (sometimes the entrance is not the same place as the exit, or there are stairs, moving walkways, etc, that need to be avoided). In most cases, people with wheelchairs/ecvs wait in the regular line until just before the boarding area/obstacle and then are shunted off to the side to avoid the obstacle and re-join the ride or go to the exit for boarding.
Usually, the time until boarding is not that different and can actually be a longer wait if you have to wait for a special wheelchair car. On Buzz Lightyear, for example, while we are waiting at the exit to board, we often see people getting off after riding, who were just ahead of us in the regular line.
But why can't the wheelchair person be escorted w/one person while the others wait in line? When the group gets to the front of the line, then the wheelchair person and single escort join the rest of them.
Most of the attractions are Mainstream, but for the ones that are not, there usually is not a place to wait and/or the people in wheelchairs who are waiting are obstruction access on to or exit from the attraction. In some cases, the people who seemed to be getting right on, had been waiting as a group somewhere else. That has happened to us quite often.
Now, remember ... I am talking about the large groups of people!!! I have seen groups of 15 or more people doing this in the parks and I'm sure others have, too.
Disney's policy is that if the attraction has an alternate access for people in wheelchairs/ecvs (because the main entrance is not wheelchair accessible), access is limited to the person with a disability plus up to 5 members of their party. There are times when the "alternate access" area will not hold that many and it is limited to 1 or 2 people plus the person with a disability.
When we were in WDW in July, Daxx, DS9 and I hooked up w/my aunt and cousin. My aunt has MS, cannot walk very well and uses a wheelchair b/c of the walking situation. The CM's would always allow her immediate access to the rides ... my cousin would take her through the handicapped way and Daxx, DS9 and I got in the regular line. My cousin requested that she and aunt wait until we got to the front of the line b/c we didn't feel it was fair to everyone else that our group (as small as it was) go ahead of everyone else. I am sure nobody noticed ... but maybe someone did and was appreciative! While our group was small, I still felt it wasn't fair to the others waiting in line. Even my aunt agreed that she could patiently wait b/c she was comfortable in her wheelchair and didn't have to stand.
At AK and the Studio, the regular lines are accessible with no handicapped entrances and we have never (coming to both parks since they opened with someone using a wheelchair) been brought to the front of the line.

At Epcot and MK, there are some attractions that are not accessible thru the regular line (but the majority are). There are some situations where the CM will board a party with wheelchairs right away - for example, in Haunted Mansion, boarding is done at the exit (you miss the Shrinking Room if you can't walk well enough to walk into it and stand during that part of the show). If the ride has no people with special needs waiting, they may take the special needs party right in. But typically, they go into the little patio/graveyard area where the ride exits and wait sort of in line there.
Spaceship Earth is another one where wheelchair users are taken to the exit for boarding, but the queue is not at all wheelchair accessible and there is usually quite a line of people waiting at the exit to go in - our usual wait there is about 30 minutes, even in the afternoon when the regular line is walking in.
I can see allowing some people to go up w/a handicapped person (ie: immediate family like parents or spouse & children) ... but why they let these enormous groups (aunts, uncles, cousins, heaven knows who, etc) through is beyond me. And, it certainly frosts me when I hear that people who don't even require a wheelchair rent one to gain quick access!
Again, the policy is up to 5 people plus the person with a disability. We are usually asked how many are in our party and have been asked to send any over that limit thru the regular line.
Most people who use wheelchairs would not agree with the "quick access". There are some attractions where you may (may) get quick access, but for many the access is much slower. Our longest "extra wait" has always been for the Safari - 40 minutes longer in one case. People who had rented wheelchairs/ecvs were asking if there was any way they could just leave the wheelchair where is was and go in the regular line because people in the regular line were basically walking on aas fast as they could go (and some trams were even pulling out partly filled).

So, even though using a wheelchair looks like an advantage, in the long run, it's just a place to sit while you are waiting.
 
Daryl said:
Gee folks, do we really need more rules? I think a little common sense can go a long way. If a kid is trying to catch up with a mom, or even two kids, so what? It doesnt really cost me a whole lot. On the other hand if a group of teenagers or adults tries to pull a fast one, well, I think we can all agree, thats crossing the line, no pun intended, well maybe a little... :sunny:
Well said and ITA....in the grand scheme of things hookairs?? I am in Disney and I am happy....I try not to let things such as this bother me.......
 
Thanks SueM in MN for that comprehensive explanation - I really appreciated it. On my last visit I needed to rent an ecv for just one visit to Epcot (but parked it outside of any ride I went on). For the life of me I can't understand why anyone would part with $40 to rent one if they didn't actually need one. If it was a case of getting on rides easily, I'd choose to be in the parks when they opened and keep the $40 ;) Maybe I'm just cheap :)
 
Meezers said:
Seems like most of the problems mentioned here are with "teenagers"....not those with family...but the packs similar to those at 6 flags (blech!).


We had this kind of rude behaviour happen to us three times (that stick out and I remember) during our last trip to WDW and each time it involved ADULTS.

After waiting in line about 45 minutes for Peter Pan's Flight (with my ds3 also standing in line the entire time) a group of about 10 cheerleaders, including two mothers, came slithering up to join their party of one adult and one teenager who were standing in line. Another time at Conservation Station, Pochahantas (?sp) was just coming out and my ds3 followed behind her (he was the only kid to do this) to be the first in line. Well a kid and his ?grandmother ran and got in front of him just before she stood in place and then to top it off the ?grandmother called all the other kids over to stand in front also (another 2 or 3). As she got a glimpse of my irritated face, she said to herself, well we were in line first! I mentioned to her that I thought that was a wonderful way to teach children to be kind and considerate, but she didn't reply.

The third instance was while waiting to see a parade and a lovely family came waltzing along as the parade was coming down the street and plunked their stroller right in front of my ds3. I kindly asked them to move it and the mother looked at me in amazement and apologized as though she saw nobody sitting there!

So I strongly have to disagree that at WDW it is not the teenagers who are the main offenders. In WDW most kids are accompanied by adults, unlike other amusement parks where teenagers may be just as guilty as the adults.
 
The only thing in the whole thread I disagree with. Didn't Walt himself say it's for children of all ages?

If it's for the kids, what am I doing there so much? I don't even have kids.
 












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