Should churches change security in wake of recent events?

[robinb]

I guess that's better than nothing.

I don't think so because it makes them feel like they've done something when they have really done nothing at all.

 

[LYSE]

Yes and after those thousands of people died via aircraft, EVERYTHING changed about how aircraft are operated. There was a tragedy and an appropriate response.
Likewise, there are all sorts of vehicle barricades around the White House that weren't there a dozen years ago.
So evidently *sometimes* when people are killed, we have the political will to do what we can to mitigate and minimize those deaths.

Unless those deaths are caused by guns. In which case "what can you do? Bad people are gonna find a way to kill."
Meanwhile, I had my freaking granola bars individually inspected at MCO just to get on an airplane.

And there is so much data studies and test (TSA keeps failing test miserably) to show that the increased screening we have done doesn't work, the threats that have been stopped are credited to intelligence gathering not screening procedures.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

The nut job with a car killed 8. The nut job with a gun yesterday killed 26, the nut job with a gun a few weeks ago killed 59, the nut job in Orlando killed 47.

Guns kill with far more efficiency than cars, or knives. Let's not pretend that they are equivalent.

Hmm I disagree with that. There's no doubt there is a discussion on guns that should occur but if we look at fatalities other methods can be used to have just as much and at time with more fatalities than guns. It doesn't make a discussion on guns no less valid but to dismiss other methods while saying guns kill with far more efficiency than cars (knives..yeah you have to be close to do that and that will likely lessen the number of fatalities though people have gone into crowds with hatchets for example)..at least to me they are different things we're talking about.

The reason the person in NYC killed 8 people was because he was using a rented Home Depot work truck. The person in Nice, France was using a 19 tonne cargo truck. You cannot even compare those two. Same as a person using a handgun vs an automatic assualt rifle.

This was the truck used in the Nice attack:


This was the Home Depot truck used in the NYC attack:


If the Renault Midlum (used in Nice) or the U.S. equivalent was used in the NYC attack the number of fatalities had the opportunity to be a lot higher than 8.

Now I could say the method in the U.S. for attacks is more common with guns than trucks that's for sure.

 

[longboard55]

And there is so much data studies and test (TSA keeps failing test miserably) to show that the increased screening we have done doesn't work, the threats that have been stopped are credited to intelligence gathering not screening procedures.

TSA does not work? Since when.

After McVay we spent billions reinforcing government buildings all over the world so trucks could drive close. But for the shooting of the month, somehow, SOME can not think of a single thing we can change, not nothing.

 

[luvsJack]

He purchased his rifle at an Academy Sports store. Did they not run the check?
Do military court martials not show up like a civilian conviction?
I get lying on the form, but what is the point of running a check if they aren't catching the lie

• 
  
  What Disqualifies You from Buying a Gun?
  According to the FBI, you cannot purchase a gun if you...
  
  • Were convicted of a crime that carried a sentence of more than one year, or a misdemeanor that carried a sentence of over two years
  • Are a fugitive (i.e. there's a felony or misdemeanor warrant for your arrest)
  • Are an addict
  • Are diagnosed mentally ill, which can include being involuntarily committed, found not guilty by reason of insanity, or found unfit to stand trial
  • Reside in the US illegally
  • Are dishonorably discharged from the military
  • Had a restraining ordered issued against you (i.e. found guilty of harassing, stalking, or threatening a partner or the child of your partner)
  • Were convicted of domestic violence (i.e. convicted of using or threatening to use a deadly weapon against a spouse, former spouse, parent, guardian of the victim, etc.)
  • Have renounced your US citizenship
  
  
  
  According to this list, if the charge by the military was a misdemeanor (and I am guessing by his discharge that it was), then it would not have stopped him from purchasing a gun.
  
  Oddly, if his ex-wife had gotten a restraining order after the incident, he would not have been able to purchase a gun or if someone had done something about his mental health status.
  
  
  
  
  

 

[LYSE]

TSA does not work? Since when.

After McVay we spent billions reinforcing government buildings all over the world so trucks could drive close. But for the shooting of the month, somehow, SOME can not think of a single thing we can change, not nothing.

http://bfy.tw/EsaF

 

[wvjules]

Doing nothing has not worked. It's time to do SOMETHING! How can anyone not see that?

 

[Gumbo4x4]

The problem with laws stating private party transfers need to have a back ground check done is that there is literally no way to enforce this, no one knows about all the purposefully or unknowingly illegal transfers in states like CA (where I recently moved away from)

If you are in a state like TX, and you want to run the buyer through NICS you'll have to have an FFL (gun shop) do it..just like the legal way in say CA.


As long as people keep getting caught up in the tool used and suffer from an irrational fear of an inanimate object we'll never have a serious conversation about murder.

Correct, the enforcement end creates all sorts of issues.

 

[Southernmiss]

Continuing to repeat someone needs to do something on a message board is not doing anything either.

I don't think anyone here is disputing that solutions should be found, but I do not have the skills to find those answers as I am presuming most who are repeating "someone needs to do something" on this forum do either.

 

[wonder whisper]

fake news.

Pray tell, how is the picture of a living individual who is accurately identified "fake news?" That blatantly over-used term has just become the favorite ploy of those who dislike something they read and then reach for a quick, lazy throw-away means to try (unsuccesfuly in almost all cases) to diminish it.

 

[wvjules]

But I believe some on here are disputing that solutions need to be found, after all, knives and cars can kill too so why try to do something about guns.

 

[Domo]

If he purchased from a dealer then it shouldn't matter what box he checked, they would have ran a background check.
If it was a private purchase or gun show I don't think they run checks, but then there probably wouldn't have been an application.
This is definitely one area where certain states could change things.

We all know the NRA are going to fight tooth and nail... perhaps it would be easier to take a baby step and simply adjust a given law or two? As a token of good faith?

 

[Wishing on a star]

That is why the politicalization of this issue is a huge problem.
Common sense can't prevail when in the heat of political battle.

Also, about the trucks. And about Intelligence, etc...
I couldn't even believe this.
There are those who proposed that maybe the person at the rental truck counter should 'provide protection'... as in 'vet' renters.
Seriously...
Are you kidding!!!!!
OMG!!!!
We can't have TSA, or our great and wonderful Intelligence operations, or Immigration 'VET', because that would be racist, and would be profiling.
But, these same people think that the guy at the rental truck counter should be helpful.
Our own multi-gabillion dollar, institutions that are place to protect us can't do anything, Vetting is not okay. Profiling is not okay... etc....
But 'Joe Schmoe' at the rental agency.... Or even 'Abdul' at the rental agency... is supposed to protect us.
That is just ludicrous. I couldn't even believe that I was hearing that.
NOT even believable.
People are just SO deceived.

They say "SEE something, SAY something" while in reality, people are not going to do that.
In this case, a regular looking, everyday, white/caucasion, person is not going to trigger any concerns.
And, if it is a white person behind the counter, and a person with darker skin renting the truck, then the employee risks being accused of being racist.

 

[Wishing on a star]

But I believe some on here are disputing that solutions need to be found, after all, ....

If anyone, anyone at all, can find a solution to the hatred and evil intent in the human heart... I would be VERY interested to hear it.

 

[Hikergirl]

We all know the NRA are going to fight tooth and nail... perhaps it would be easier to take a baby step and simply adjust a given law or two? As a token of good faith?

To be fair, I said "states" can change that. My state has.

 

[Domo]

To be fair, I said "states" can change that. My state has.

Always good to see a state stand up to the big boys... hopefully others will follow suit.

 

[Hikergirl]

Always good to see a state stand up to the big boys... hopefully others will follow suit.

I guess that is equivalent to baby steps. I do agree though that there are things that can be done at the Federal level. In the case of Devin Kelley, based on his court martial and domestic violence problem his application should have been denied at the store, no doubt.
Having said that, I don't think he killed all those people because he had a gun. His access to that rifle didn't turn him into a murderer, it was just his chosen tool. I think if he was denied that purchase he still would have found another way to kill those people.

 

[longboard55]

All the shootings have one thing in common, high capacity removable magazines, which have no legitimate purpose for the general public. Just a thought where we could start. California has tried to ban them all but a judge stepped in and removed the ban.

 

[Geoff_M]

In Texas? I didn't think they needed to run background checks for gun shows?

Is this outdated?
http://www.governing.com/gov-data/s...irearms-bankground-checks-state-laws-map.html

No, but it is somewhat misleading. The state level laws only refer to private (non-dealer) sales done at gun shows. Federal law still demands that firearms dealers must perform background checks regardless of whether the sale is done in their store, or remotely at a gun show. The Texas shooter reportedly purchased the firearm at a dealer, so all Federal background check laws would have applied to the sale.

 

[LSUmiss]

I doubt one person can kill 25 people with rocks in a few minutes.

Exactly! Not too many things at all that can kill that many ppl in minutes.