Should buses be modified to take >2 scooters?

[seashoreCM]

Hypothetical scenario demonstrating limiting who boards with wheelchairs, etc.:

Ok I have been talking (snip) option. So it's the end of the night when the fireworks are done and everyone is making a mad dash for the entrance. Everyone

including the entourages of those in wheelchairs and the ECVs minus at most one helper per wheelchair or ECV

cuts in front of the people in the wheelchairs and the ECVs. They push their strollers quickly in front of them and pull little Billy's hand in front of them and cut them off to get to the bus stop. Now let's say the bus queue has enough people to max out a bus. As the bus pulls up an ECV pulls up. The bus driver says sorry (snip)

... er, the bus driver says, Wheelchairs and ECVs first. After they are loaded, four bus seats, (typically) two for the disabled guests, two for the helpers, are taken. Then everyone in the regular queue piles on.

Perfect?

Unrelated observation:

Letting the whole family of the disabled person board first could be considered a perk to make up for ineqiuties elsewhere in the World.

 

[Simba's Mom]

Preferential boarding for mobility-assisted guests included that guest one attendant if needed and one dependant if needed. Any more in their part can catch up on the next bus of call an Uber.

That would be the fair approach. But it's not the easiest one to implement.

I blame the bus drivers as much as anyone else for this not being implemented. On a trip last year, with DH, DS, DDIL, and DGDs, DH would get on the bus with me, and the rest of the family would get in line with everyone else. At every stop, the bus driver would lean out and call for DS, DDIL, and the 2 DGDs to get on the bus with me. Yes, I suppose they could have refused, but maybe the bus driver shouldn't have said anything.

 

[seshat0120]

@Oliviaxxx I understand what you are trying to say. However I want to point out that you are assuming everybody on two legs is able-bodied and has the ability to stand on the bus if necessary. There is a fairly decent subset of people who do not use a wheelchair or ECV, or rent in the park, but for various reasons they may not be able to stand on a moving vehicle.

Thank you for bringing this up. Due to a stroke I had a number of years ago I have a partial vision loss and also have less than perfect balance on a moving vehicle...especially when I'm tired. I've experienced the wait for a second bus so that I can sit. Sure, I could have squeezed on and made it work but it would have made for a very uncomfortable (potentially dangerous) ride for me.

 

[MaryLovesPoohBear]

Okay, so the basics. I own my scooter. Her name is Betsy, and the name comes from the movie Big Jake. She has three wheels. I also have a handicap plate (and placard for when I am riding in another vehicle.) I don't use Betsy when I am going about my daily life, unless what I am doing requires walking more than a mile. I have lupus.

In the past, I have tried to wait to pull up the to loading square when there is a long line at a park. I can't do that at the resorts because most of the time, there isn't a line to see how many are going to where I am. Twice during my last trip I was told not to do that. Once, I was informed by both the bus driver and the transportation cast member to get on a bus that was going to be full. I was told that if I wait, I could cause a back up of scooters. Since only two fit on a bus, if I wait and two more pull up, one of them has to wait for a third bus. I tried to explain that I didn't want people to have to stand or possibly wait for another bus, that they had been waiting and I had just pulled up. I was basically told that it happens but it was better to have a couple of people stand or wait, then to have multiple scooters waiting.

So, I boarded. And I pulled up to the spot whenever I got to the line for the rest of my trip.

I also take an additional seat by not staying on Betsy. My paperwork tells me to not sit on her while in a moving vehicle. It isn't safe. In addition, there are signs at the resorts and parks telling those in scooters to move to a bus seat, for safety.

Ok, I have a dark sense of humor and rather like ribbing people (myself included) for our human faults. One if my favorites is to stand in line, and when my friend rolls by in her power chair I'll turn to someone in line and say, "must be nice, eh?" In a real smarmy voice. It's not really fair, but it surprises me how often the response is agreement. On the occasion that I do get shocked indignation I quickly explain that it's my friend and I'm being facetious. Vast majority either sniff quiet dismissal or give a timid agreement.

My family is the same way. My husband told me, while at Disney to just get up and walk like the rest of us. And that we were all tired. The guy behind us laughed and said, he must be with you. Was that you???

 

[MissManda]

At CBR I had my rollator and we were at one of the later bus stops. The MK bus arrived full. The driver told me I had to stand. I said I would wait for the next bus. He said it was going to be awhile for the next bus and he told me it would be full too as probably the next few would be. He said I could stand on his bus or one of the next busses. I stood on his bus. It was awful trying to hold my walker and keep upright. Finally since I was in the aisle near the driver I just opened my walker and put the breaks in and let it fend for itself (it didn’t move during the ride thankfully). It was all I could do not to fall down myself. I have never stayed at a moderate since. My daughter was so traumatized by it she doesn’t want to either. We used to love The moderates. We stay at Pop now. One bus stop makes it easier for us. I regret not saying something to transportation supervisor. It was a very bad experience. Luckily we didn’t have any other bus issues that short stay.

What I find really sad about this is that not one person on that bus offered you a place to sit? Never in a million years would I have remained seated while you stood.
I've been on crowded buses before where the driver has asked people to give up seats for those standing that really should have been seated (elderly or people carrying small children). Your driver could have done that and at least tried to help you.

 

[SueM in MN]

This is what the signs at bus stops at the resorts say.
At the parks, some bus queues have guests with mobility devices stay in the regular line until s certain point.
Others have a waiting area specific for guests with mobility devices.

 

[MinnieMSue]

What I find really sad about this is that not one person on that bus offered you a place to sit? Never in a million years would I have remained seated while you stood.
I've been on crowded buses before where the driver has asked people to give up seats for those standing that really should have been seated (elderly or people carrying small children). Your driver could have done that and at least tried to help you.

I got on and was looking at the seated people in the front part of the bus and they were for the most part staring back at me. I had no way to know who needed to sit and who didn’t and so I just let it go. It was what it was. I was more annoyed that the driver didn’t call another bus or make any attempt to help me out. I didn’t expect anyone to give up their seat to be honest. I get it - I don’t blame them for wanting to sit. I would have waited for the next bus but after the driver telling me I wouldn’t get a seat on the next few I just decided to deal with it. I turned and leaned against the area behind the driver’s seat and held on tight. It is honestly the only bad experience I really remember and still feel bad about to this day. Everything else that happened over the years has been forgotten or I have not continued to feel bad about. I wish I could let this go. I’m sure it will leave my mind too soon.

 

[DisneyOma]

The cameras are the computer vision componant of an obstacle avoidance system and the data includes the speed and direction (if any) of the chair as well as speed direction of most stationary and moving potential obstacles (terrain and people respectively).

There's actually several cameras, including a 360 deg camera, an array of PIR infrared sensors, microwave radar, GPS, acceleration and (soon) LIDAR sensors. Basically, every technology used by the DJI Mavic drone and then some.

Put it this way, I started developing this system because people often list fear of driving into something or someone as a reason for not getting or using powered mobility devices. If they can keep a Prius from crashing or hitting a pedestrian, we should be able to do the same for a Jazzy. But even I was shocked at just how blatantly people will walk in front of a moving wheelchair, otherwise obstruct them.

So, what you are saying is that the wheelchair always has the right of way? When two paths intersect, one has to yield - and usually the pedestrian has the right of way. With all the bells and whistles you describe (and what's the point of all of that on a scooter?) unless it makes the vehicle stop to avoid a hit, it's just nonsense, IMO. Paths cross, and one has to yield to another. Disabled people using ECVs and electric wheelchairs have to yield to people too.

 

[cobright]

Just to organize a bit of this...

1. So, what you are saying is that the wheelchair always has the right of way?
2. When two paths intersect, one has to yield - and usually the pedestrian has the right of way.
3. With all the bells and whistles you describe (and what's the point of all of that on a scooter?) unless it makes the vehicle stop to avoid a hit, it's just nonsense, IMO.
4. Paths cross, and one has to yield to another. Disabled people using ECVs and electric wheelchairs have to yield to people too.

In that order then...

1. I'm not saying the wheelchair always has the right of way. I'm saying that it is surprisingly common for people to walk in front of them or otherwise behave in such a way that if done to an able standing person would be shocking, but because the victimised party is in a wheelchair or eco we either dont see it or assume it is their responsibility to stay out of the way.
2. A mobility challenged person using a powered chair or ecv IS a pedestrian.
3. The bells and whistles I describe do exactly that. They work with a computer to prevent the power chair crashing into people or stationary objects.
4. Paths cross and generally people meet as equals and determine right of way as such. Or we hope they do so. Nobody doubts that there are people driving ecvs that are unable or unconcerned with doing so safely. Stories of such come up often enough. Enough to make the disabled into villains.

Among people who depend on powered assistive technology like ECVs stories of being walked into while stopped and in the open are ... universal. Of being stopped at an open door by crowds of people rushing in front of them because doing what most of us would do, assert our right if way, will get them branded as one of those dangerous villains.

There is a reason the experience of sitting down in a wheelchair and 'disappearing' is so common.

For god's sake, someone related being crawled on by strangers children while parked! This should be shocking, but its nowhere close to the worst. It's so common that we've stopped seeing it.

 

[serenitynow]

Just to organize a bit of this...

In that order then...

1. I'm not saying the wheelchair always has the right of way. I'm saying that it is surprisingly common for people to walk in front of them or otherwise behave in such a way that if done to an able standing person would be shocking, but because the victimised party is in a wheelchair or eco we either dont see it or assume it is their responsibility to stay out of the way.
2. A mobility challenged person using a powered chair or ecv IS a pedestrian.
3. The bells and whistles I describe do exactly that. They work with a computer to prevent the power chair crashing into people or stationary objects.
4. Paths cross and generally people meet as equals and determine right of way as such. Or we hope they do so. Nobody doubts that there are people driving ecvs that are unable or unconcerned with doing so safely. Stories of such come up often enough. Enough to make the disabled into villains.

Among people who depend on powered assistive technology like ECVs stories of being walked into while stopped and in the open are ... universal. Of being stopped at an open door by crowds of people rushing in front of them because doing what most of us would do, assert our right if way, will get them branded as one of those dangerous villains.

There is a reason the experience of sitting down in a wheelchair and 'disappearing' is so common.

For god's sake, someone related being crawled on by strangers children while parked! This should be shocking, but its nowhere close to the worst. It's so common that we've stopped seeing it.

More than once I have had people lean on the back of my wheelchair at Disney during Wishes and Illuminations. Once a woman who was changing her baby’s diaper on a bench outside of Test Track at Epcot set her diaper bag on top of the front basket on my ECV while I was sitting there parked, waiting for my party.

I’ve been parked against the wall, next to the restroom at Tomorrowland Terrace when a man looking at his phone and rushing along slammed into me, fell down and began screaming at me. Luckily a CM was right there to make sure I was okay. She told him he ran into me while I wasn’t even moving. He wasn’t hurt, but he cursed at me for his broken phone , and flipped me off as the CM led him away. I don’t know what happened next for him, but a CM from the Plaza Ice Cream Parlor brought me out a free Ice Cream Sundae. Nice pixie dust, but it was still upsetting.

I think people step out in front of and into ECVs partly for the same reason one car pulls right out in front of oncoming traffic. The instinct to try and “beat” the oncoming traffic. Sometimes it’s just careless walking or stroller pushing and sometimes they look right at you before they do it. It’s frustrating, as most people using mobility devices are really trying to just go with the flow, attempting to carefully operate their device and not attract attention from others. But this is very difficult to do in a crowded place with distracted adults, excited children and strollers suddenly crossing in front of your path.

 

[ttintagel]

People in ECV's may get ON the bus first, but they also get OFF the bus last.

 

[CrankyDad]

People in ECV's may get ON the bus first, but they also get OFF the bus last.

So? We are talking about loading ,space and companions with the scooter. Honestly who cares if you off the bus last. You are there

 

[Jimmy Mouse]

I think people step out in front of and into ECVs partly for the same reason one car pulls right out in front of oncoming traffic. The instinct to try and “beat” the oncoming traffic.

I have had the exact opposite experience with scooters. In the last 3 years, I have had more than one bad experience with scooters and a few with strollers. One example is there were 2 women in their 30's behind us at Kali Rapids. The second one kept slamming into her friend who was directly behind us. I finally spoke up really loud because she hit her friend really hard and her friend hit the gas and came within inches of running down my 3 year old. I told her, "Hit my kid and i'll turn you over". I was pissed! Another time we were just walking in MK, I was holding my youngest daughters hand and my wife was with our 7 yo. We were walking behind each other, not 4 wide. This lady came up behind us and was tooting her horn over and over. I looked back and she yelled "MOVE!" We just kept walking. Another bad one was a man in his scooter hit our stroller with my little one in it. He hit us really hard, knocking her sideways and he just gave us a nasty look and kept going. No sorry, nothing. So your thoughts are not 100%. Yes I'm sure there are people that step in front of the scooters but it goes both ways. Same for strollers. Just this past september I finally had to turn around and ask the guy behind us in the security line at Epcot to please stop hitting my ankles with his stroller. His reply was "You should have told me the first time".

 

[ttintagel]

So? We are talking about loading ,space and companions with the scooter. Honestly who cares if you off the bus last. You are there

Some mention was made upthread along the lines of, why do ECV's get boarded first. Just commenting on that aspect. I personally DON'T care, but some people don't seem to like waiting for ECV's to load.

 

[TeresaWen]

My husband uses a wheel chair only in the parks. On the rare occasion we take a bus we use a curtsey chair to get to the bus stop. We generally stay away from the buses and use Uber. The buses really make me cranky. If they actually came on a regular schedule and if the transportation cast members could make decisions about redirection of buses if necessary much of the evc issue would disappear.

 

[smiths02]

Just to organize a bit of this...
In that order then...

1. I'm not saying the wheelchair always has the right of way. I'm saying that it is surprisingly common for people to walk in front of them or otherwise behave in such a way that if done to an able standing person would be shocking, but because the victimised party is in a wheelchair or eco we either dont see it or assume it is their responsibility to stay out of the way.
2. A mobility challenged person using a powered chair or ecv IS a pedestrian.
3. The bells and whistles I describe do exactly that. They work with a computer to prevent the power chair crashing into people or stationary objects.
4. Paths cross and generally people meet as equals and determine right of way as such. Or we hope they do so. Nobody doubts that there are people driving ecvs that are unable or unconcerned with doing so safely. Stories of such come up often enough. Enough to make the disabled into villains.

Among people who depend on powered assistive technology like ECVs stories of being walked into while stopped and in the open are ... universal. Of being stopped at an open door by crowds of people rushing in front of them because doing what most of us would do, assert our right if way, will get them branded as one of those dangerous villains.

There is a reason the experience of sitting down in a wheelchair and 'disappearing' is so common.

For god's sake, someone related being crawled on by strangers children while parked! This should be shocking, but its nowhere close to the worst. It's so common that we've stopped seeing it.

My MIL was in a wheelchair most of the time on our Disney cruise. Getting on the elevators was insanity. My DH was usually pushing her, and he didn't want to be aggressive or hurt anyone, but we could be literally the only people there waiting for an elevator....and 2 minutes later other people come. When the elevator opens up, the other people all push past us and get in the elevator first. (Which is a problem because it's not like you can just squeeze on a crowded elevator in a wheelchair and you HAVE to take the elevator, stairs were not an option). Over a 4 night cruise, not ONE time did anyone offer to let us (or even just DH and MIL) on the elevator first.

It was an eye opening experience, for sure.

 

[North of Mouse]

Thank you for bringing this up. Due to a stroke I had a number of years ago I have a partial vision loss and also have less than perfect balance on a moving vehicle...especially when I'm tired. I've experienced the wait for a second bus so that I can sit. Sure, I could have squeezed on and made it work but it would have made for a very uncomfortable (potentially dangerous) ride for me.

You are so correct!! Dh & I have also waited for the next bus so we can sit. We are fortunately able bodied, but in our 70's and need to sit if possible. We 'do not' feel obligated to then give up our seats to those with children, etc. if they decide to squeeze onto a crowded standing only bus when they can obviously see there are no seats available.

 

[gap2368]

You are so correct!! Dh & I have also waited for the next bus so we can sit. We are fortunately able bodied, but in our 70's and need to sit if possible. We 'do not' feel obligated to then give up our seats to those with children, etc. if they decide to squeeze onto a crowded standing only bus when they can obviously see there are no seats available.

There have been times due to medical problems I have had at the time needed a set sometimes this means waiting for the next bus. I have had people ask me for my set even thoug I waited for another bus

 

[Caren]

I’ve always been of the opinion that Disney should offer special van transport for people with mobility issues during busy times. I’ve usually had this thought after Illuminations at Epcot when people are getting in line faster than the buses can pull through because each and every bus has to have two ECVs loaded and strapped in.

 

[gap2368]

I’ve always been of the opinion that Disney should offer special van transport for people with mobility issues during busy times. I’ve usually had this thought after Illuminations at Epcot when people are getting in line faster than the buses can pull through because each and every bus has to have two ECVs loaded and strapped in.

I like how MK dose the all stars at the end of the night everyone get in the same line the pull wheelchair ECV out fair enough before boarding ( pretty much they had one full bus load of people that can load on a bus ) this works so well no one cut the line and everyone e wait the same time