Should alimony be abolished?

[Handbag Lady]

I'd love to throw something else into this mix.

A colleague of mine is getting paid alimony, from his ex-wife to him. She made three times what he made during their marriage and they share custody of the children. Child support is separate.

Should this continue for the rest of his life? He doesn't think so, because his future earning potential is unknown, and she didn't hinder him from working at all during the marriage. Her further income is unknown, too. So they just re-visit as incomes change on both levels. They both expect it to end when the youngest child graduates college.

I think that sounds very mature and fair. Most of the men we know SCOFF at him getting alimony, however. They don't think women should be supporting men at all.

 

[aprilgail2]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jefflanders/2013/05/17/what-divorcing-women-need-to-know-about-alimony-reform/?ss=forbeswoman

Not liking the Florida proposal at all.

Most of it sounds very fair to me!

 

[okeydokey]

I think the Florida proposal says that alimony is limited to half of the years you were married. In most cases, this seems fair. It allows a spouse some time to get back into the work force, but is not for a lifetime. There are provisions that allow it for a longer length of time as needed.

My friend is paying her ex husband alimony for his lifetime. She wanted him work while they were married, but he got injured or sick or fired etc and never worked much. After he divorced her he got himself a job and is collecting alimony. She is struggling big time as he pays no child support.

Of course, she was way too easy on him in the divorce settlement and allowed this to happen.

 

[mckelvey72]

I am divorced but no alimony...we both worked and no kids so we just split and rolled.....so my opinion is not based on my own story..it is based on what I believe and some situations I have heard about...

I think alimony should be on a case by case basis:

Yes, if the husband worked and they decided wife should stay home, then she should get alimony but in my opinion for a specified period of time. She should have to take responsibility at some point for her life and get training, get a job etc.

Now, in the event the stay at home mom decided to take a "dip" with the pool boy and that affair was the reason for the end of the marriage...she should be on her own.

 

[brockash]

I think it depends. For example, if one spouse had a career so that the other one could stay home and raise a family, the stay at home spouse should get alimony. If one spouse worked so that the other spouse could go to school and get a lucrative job, yep, I believe in alimony. If someone was married soley to be "arm candy" and all that spouse's time and energy went into keeping up his/her looks and social graces, I believe that spouse should also get alimony.

For 25 years? Probably not unless there are other factors, but a spouse in those situations should get some sort of spousal support to get the spouse through school or other training and into a new career.

I completely agree. I think there are certainly some situations in which it is necessary and fair, however there are also other situations in which it is not. Every case is different.

 

[jodifla]

I am divorced but no alimony...we both worked and no kids so we just split and rolled.....so my opinion is not based on my own story..it is based on what I believe and some situations I have heard about...

I think alimony should be on a case by case basis:

Yes, if the husband worked and they decided wife should stay home, then she should get alimony but in my opinion for a specified period of time. She should have to take responsibility at some point for her life and get training, get a job etc.

Now, in the event the stay at home mom decided to take a "dip" with the pool boy and that affair was the reason for the end of the marriage...she should be on her own.

And how about if the husband had the affair? What should happen to him?

 

[Mouse House Mama]

but I think that's a life style choice you make and when you make it, it should be with the full realization that you are handing over your earning potential to some one else.
In no way saying this is a wrong choice, just that I do think it's a bit "naive: to come back and say "well I gave up XYZ" for my spouse and lost this earning potential, unless the spouse put a gun to some ones head, you gave that up with full consent and in no way should you expect after staying out of the workforce for 15 years to be capable of having the same earning potential.

I could never do it, I know it may sound selfish but my independance and career which I worked extremely hard at is very important to me so I always knew going into motherhood that I was not going to be a SAHM longer than 4 years tops.

And I totally admit to not understanding why a women after the kids get into school full time can't go back to work, once again not saying that they should just that if you CHOOSE this life style, I don't think you should cry sour grapes at the end. (in general, I know some one will post about having some special circumstances that prevents them from going back to work. not talking about that)

Today, it's not like the 1950's when choices were so limited for women and where the "normal" was for moms to not work.


But to answer the question, I think alimony should be drastically overhauled. especially now in this day and time. If you are a stay at home mom, after a few years you should be back to work.

child support is a totally different thing.

I bolded and underlined. Making a choice for a spouse to stay home (mom or dad) is a JOINT decision. I don't know anybody in this day and age who just says "I quit!" and the other spouse has to suck wind. WE made the choice for me to stay home TOGETHER. It was what is best for OUR family. See what I am doing here? Once person doesn't make the decision so one person should not be penalized. A family decides this together for the good of all involved.
Also, you mentioned that you knew you weren't going to stay out of the workforce for more than 4 years going inot motherhood. Well, I had a lot of ideas about what I was going to do but once they put that baby in my arms my ideas changed drastically. I am grateful that I am able to stay home and respect if others do not want to. I just think that a lot more goes into making the decision sometimes than you are giving credit for. YMMV.

 

[RitaE]

I completely agree. I think there are certainly some situations in which it is necessary and fair, however there are also other situations in which it is not. Every case is different.

Yes
I have a friend who gave up her job and career to care for her husband's mother as well as the kids. What was supposed to be a short-term thing ended up being over a decade of hospital stays and doctor's appointments, catheters and feeding tubes, bathing and moving from the bed to the chair and back again - because everybody wanted to keep Mom out of the nursing home.

At the conclusion not only was my friend's career shot, her own health had also suffered dramatically from the ravages of being a Primary caregiver. I'd say she deserved her alimony.

 

[mckelvey72]

In my opinion...husband and wife decide wife stays home and husband cheats...he should pay alimony for a specified period of time so the wife cna get training/job.

 

[Lorelei Lee]

Most of it sounds very fair to me!

It takes the discretion away from the judge. It sets hard and fast rules that the court cannot change. Does not allow for evaluation of the parties' circumstances.

How do you impute income to someone who hasn't held a job in 10 years and is not likely to find a job with the earning potential of the one she gave up ten years ago?

That hardly sounds fair to me.

 

[robinb]

Best solution...don't get divorced in the first place. I know that's not always realistic.

Bottom line, my rules would be simple:
You must go to marriage counseling for at least 1 year prior to getting a divorce (3 years if you have children), with no separation during this time, unless the marriage counselor recommends it, without either person asking.

If either person doesn't participate in the marriage counseling, they get nothing.

If someone cheats on the other person, the person who cheated is entitled to absolutely nothing, no child support (even if they somehow end up with custody, which would take a lot in my world for this situation), no alimony, no car payments, etc.

If someone entered the marriage under fraudulent pretenses, they also get nothing.



If one person was constantly drunk, again they get nothing.

If either person was convicted of a DUI ever in their life, you guessed it, they get nothing, not even custody or visitations. And absolutely no exceptions to this rule, it is hard and fast. If the other person is unfit, then the children should go to next of kin (again, no DUIs on their record). You are banned from public assistance (for life). If you are found living on the street, you automatically go to jail. Yes, that sounds extreme, but drunk driving is a MAJOR problem and needs to be stopped.

If you are here illegally (even if your kids are citizens), you get nothing and are automatically deported.

As for alimony, if both people were working, there would be no alimony for either party, no matter what the income of each is. There may be some extenuating circumstances, but not many.

There are other situations to, but these would be my basic rules. Aren't you glad I don't rule the world? LOL

I know that this sounds extreme, but seriously, I think it would reduce divorce rates, which are alarmingly high and lower divorce rates would result in a lot better world all around.

Let me guess ... your drunk, undocumented immigrant Ex lied and said they were a US citizen (to get married) then cheated on you, left you without giving you a chance to work it out via counseling and now collects both child and spousal support from you. Wow. Sounds like a bad country-western song.

 

[Lorelei Lee]

And how about if the husband had the affair? What should happen to him?

Maybe the wife should get everything they own and he should pay alimony forever???

I'm just being facetious, of course.

Most divorces these days are "no fault", and even in "fault" jurisdictions, economic decisions don't take "fault" into account.

 

[mckelvey72]

My original post actually has truth to it which is why I used the example. I know there are many other scenarios.

A guy I worked with.....he was happily married, loved his wife and kids, agreed that his wife could be a stay at home mom. They were married 10 years when he found out his wife was having an affair with the pool boy. And the way he found out.......they have security cameras and one if facing the pool. So she knew it was there and not only did she "dip" with the pool boy...at one point she faced the camera and gave the camera the middle finger. So she knew he would see it eventually. This camera footage was shown in court and he STILL has to pay her alimony for 10 years.

I just think that is terrible. And it doesn't necessarily have to be the wife doing it to the husband...there are many stay at home dads so this isn't a gender specific post. It is just an example of something I knew happened.

And he pays child support. It is so sad cause he can't get past it and every monthend he is ticked off for a day when the money is taken out of his paycheck. and I don't think I can blame him.

 

[CdnCarrie]

OK, so no alimony for SAHMs. Just back pay for their work: childcare, cleaning, cooking, pet care, etc.

Your plan is fine, as long as women (and stay at home dads) get paid for their work in the home.

Are they going to repay their ex spouse for all the clothes, and room and board they got? If not why would they get back pay for their services. It was a barter system of sorts.

I agree that alimony should be short lived until the former spouse gets on their feet. It should never be for long term.

 

[Colleen27]

My DH pays "permanent" alimony. When he retired, we found that my income was included in the calculations of what the court considered we could afford to pay. His ex chose to stay home, mostly. She worked off and on when she was in the mood. It was her choice to stay home, no joint decision.

Not saying this is the case for your DH & his ex at all, just using this as a jumping off point... I've seen several couples go from "We decided she should stay home" to "That lazy &^%$* just doesn't want to work" when the marriage hit the rocks. So it would be problematic to actually take the nature of the decision into account. Presumably if the working spouse accepted the arrangement for years and years, it wasn't something s/he strongly opposed.

He did - the new circumstances are that I make quite a bit of money and they are inclined to increase her alimony since inflation has eroded the value. Fortunately the judge had a sane moment and didn't do that. But I basically have to quit working too before they will reconsider. And then they will look at our savings and may direct that we have to pay from savings or transfer a lump sum to make sure that she gets her money.

It is absolutely insane that a new spouse's income would factor in at all. It doesn't for child support. I would think alimony would be the same.

 

[HelenePA]

Are they going to repay their ex spouse for all the clothes, and room and board they got? If not why would they get back pay for their services. It was a barter system of sorts.

omg What about sex? who pays whom for that? I mean we're working on a barter system here after all! I need to start keeping track of all the bartering me and my husband do in case we ever get divorced!

 

[Lorelei Lee]

My original post actually has truth to it which is why I used the example. I know there are many other scenarios.

A guy I worked with.....he was happily married, loved his wife and kids, agreed that his wife could be a stay at home mom. They were married 10 years when he found out his wife was having an affair with the pool boy. And the way he found out.......they have security cameras and one if facing the pool. So she knew it was there and not only did she "dip" with the pool boy...at one point she faced the camera and gave the camera the middle finger. So she knew he would see it eventually. This camera footage was shown in court and he STILL has to pay her alimony for 10 years.

I just think that is terrible. And it doesn't necessarily have to be the wife doing it to the husband...there are many stay at home dads so this isn't a gender specific post. It is just an example of something I knew happened.

And he pays child support. It is so sad cause he can't get past it and every monthend he is ticked off for a day when the money is taken out of his paycheck. and I don't think I can blame him.

She sounds dreadful and spiteful,

 

[worm761]

I think that it should be left up to the judge to decide on a case by case basis. And yes, I think some spouses do deserve lifetime support depending on the circumstances.

If I have stayed home for years, taking care of the home and family for DH and he decides to divorce me after I have been out of the workforce for so long then he can still take care of me in the manner that I am used to. I did not enter my marriage with the intent to ever end it. And neither did he so I don't really think this will ever happen.

 

[Lorelei Lee]

Are they going to repay their ex spouse for all the clothes, and room and board they got? If not why would they get back pay for their services. It was a barter system of sorts.

Excuse me?

Both parties contributed to the economic success of the partnership and both reaped its benefits. Are you saying we should attempt quantify which spouse contributed more?

 

[Lorelei Lee]

I think that it should be left up to the judge to decide on a case by case basis. And yes, I think some spouses do deserve lifetime support depending on the circumstances.

If I have stayed home for years, taking care of the home and family for DH and he decides to divorce me after I have been out of the workforce for so long then he can still take care of me in the manner that I am used to. I did not enter my marriage with the intent to ever end it. And neither did he so I don't really think this will ever happen.

You never know what may happen down the road, but you make a good point. People do not get married with the intent of getting a divorce. they get married with the intent of staying together indefinitely and creating a family unit.