Should alimony be abolished?

[disykat]

I finally read the article. The author actually suggested what I did - it's called a "post-nuptial" agreement. I think it will come to the point where the SAHP has to protect themselves legally.

 

[disykat]

Excuse me?

Both parties contributed to the economic success of the partnership and both reaped its benefits. Are you saying we should attempt quantify which spouse contributed more?

Actually, I think that's exactly what most of this thread is about.

 

[dogluva]

Well I get what you are saying, but for us, even when the kids got back in school, if I went back to work my DH and I would have never seen each other. He worked nights and weekends and for us, having a relationship was far more important than me working. I know this isn' the norm, but for us it worked. I also didn't want my kids going to after school care, I preferred to stay home with them and get them to their after school activities. I had plenty of moms that worked depend on me to get their kids where they needed to be.

In the end, my DH wanted me at home and I wanted to be home, everyone is different and I realize that this doesn't work for most people, but I felt it more important to be home and actually see my DH and be there for my kids. It worked for us and is still working.
That being said, I don't think that unlimited alimony is a good idea, there has be be some boundaries.

ETA, Just because kids go to school, doesn't mean that they don't need you when school is out. My priority was them, not a job or a career, but my kids. Others feel differently and have different circumstances, as will my DD, but it worked for me, and I wouldn't change a thing.

Right because working moms first priority is their careers.

 

[dogluva]

that might work if you only have a child or two but if you decide on having a larger family? it would have cost more than my pay to have 4 kids in daycare.. sorry I'm not going to work to pay someone else to raise our kids which it what it would have worked out to being.

I work and have six kids. And thanks for saying someone else raised them. My son just go his masters degree, um, I take full credit for raising him!

 

[dogluva]

Have you priced child care lately? With 4 kids, you would probably wind up paying child care a LOT more than you even make. All for the "benefit" of working outside the home?!?

Eventually those kids will be in school full time. Eventually they will not need after school care. There is also the thing called part time work-I did it for eight years.

 

[dogluva]

It is a choice made jointly, and both parties should be responsible for the consequences of that choice.

I think today is very much like the 1950s, but with the 'rules' reversed - women have the opportunity to work in pretty much any field they choose, but along with that opportunity has come condemnation for those who opt not to do so.

I'm a long-term SAHM to the point that I joke about retiring at 22. I've been out of the workforce 15 years now with no real plans to re-enter at all. The issues that led us to me leaving my job haven't vanished because the kids got older. My husband still works in a field that makes it impossible for me to count on him for any help in the evenings, because he doesn't know in the morning what time he'll get home at night. And my training/experience is still in a profession that would demand a long commute and sometimes erratic hours. One of us needs to know that we'll be home to get the kids from childcare, to drive to/from evening activities, to make dinner and run baths and get the kids to bed and since neither of our chosen job paths accommodates that we decided the most practical choice is for one of us to be at home. Since I never had the passion for my job that DH has for his, I gladly left mine behind and haven't looked back. He's been able to do more, career-wise, than he could have if he was balancing work and family, and we've been able to give the kids opportunities that we couldn't if they didn't have me available to handle all the logistics.

I don't get this, kids grow up, eventually you won't have to run baths for them anymore. Some even get their licenses and drive themselves around! No plans ever to work?

 

[dogluva]

You have to make a lot of money to be able to pay for 4 kids in day care.

Also yes moms who work do all of this, but SAHM do it at least 40 hours a week more than working moms. It is what it is.

I do feel that kids in daycare are being raised in part by someone else, especially when young. They get dropped of at 7:00 don't get picked up until 6:00. Early bed time. Sorry but time dictates that the daycare spends way more time than the parent does.

Oh wow.

 

[HelenePA]

Eventually those kids will be in school full time. Eventually they will not need after school care. There is also the thing called part time work-I did it for eight years.

At what point does this come.. this is a serious question.. as of this August I will be childless during the day but my youngest is 4 so someone still needs to be here before school/after school and all summer.. I'm basically the only stay at home mom around, most moms work. They have having to find child care for the summer for their kids now.. I know I'll have at least 2 extra from 7a-4:30p everyday during the summer because they aren't old enough to stay home alone.. they are 4 and 8. She is a newly single mom so this was sorta just dumped on her.. she is not getting child support and dad is out of the picture. (no more details will be provided) btw I'm doing this for free..

 

[dogluva]

At what point does this come.. this is a serious question.. as of this August I will be childless during the day but my youngest is 4 so someone still needs to be here before school/after school and all summer.. I'm basically the only stay at home mom around, most moms work. They have having to find child care for the summer for their kids now.. I know I'll have at least 2 extra from 7a-4:30p everyday during the summer because they aren't old enough to stay home alone.. they are 4 and 8. She is a newly single mom so this was sorta just dumped on her.. she is not getting child support and dad is out of the picture. (no more details will be provided) btw I'm doing this for free..

Well it depends on the kid but I don't know too many 17 year old who need babysitting.

 

[Jessica14]

I have only read some of this thread but it was very timely. DH and I have known a couple for 20 years. We were at one time very close. She had their a baby at 19 and married a couple of months later. The last time she had a steady paying job was when she was 18 (she's now 40- had a few temp things here and there). They had another baby a few years after. She was a SAHM but has always been somewhat unstable, abrasive, hugely independent on DH and others, and may even have some Munchusen thrown in there (claimed she had cerebral palsy, mental illness, a child with Cystic Fibrosis-she didn't have it) and a variety of other things she described as "tragic." Her DH has always been a saint. Because of her very abrasive ways, we backed away from the friendship because it was quite harmful to my well being.

Flash ahead at least a decade. Her kids are grown (19 and 16), DH has put her through college TWICE, he has done all her papers and has financially supported all her ambitions and waited on her hand and foot during all her medical issues. She has always been someone who needs to live in a drama-filled environment. To give you an idea of her personality, every time she got a headache, he had to stay home from work to deal with the kids because she "couldn't be a good mother today." He did everything for her and never expected her to work outside the home.

Now for the kicker. She recently told him that he has taken too long to follow his own path and he has pushed her away. She wants a divorce. We have been back in touch for a little while and now she wants to stay with my family and have us drive her around at night because she can't do that. I'm absolutely perplexed by the whole thing. No doubt she will claim she is a displaced homemaker and needs half his retirement plus alimony. I wish he didn't have to pay her a cent.

I always expected he was going to hang around until the kids were older than leave because she's so difficult. Instead, he's out on the street for essentially caring too much. Uuugh! It makes me so mad that he will have to pay her anything. I'm a SAHM/homeschooling Mom so its not like I don't get not having a job. I think its just such a cruel thing to expect from someone who still feels she is the love of his life.

Sorry for the vent!

Jessica

 

[HelenePA]

I work and have six kids. And thanks for saying someone else raised them. My son just go his masters degree, um, I take full credit for raising him!

Of course you raised him.. but if it was going to cost you money to send him (them) to daycare, putting your check in the negative. Wouldn't you have stayed home as well? That is what my situation is.. and good for your son btw to put more into my situation my dh is NOW in college (deans list at PSU) He really isn't home much.

 

[HelenePA]

Well it depends on the kid but I don't know too many 17 year old who need babysitting.

my 12 yr old has an IQ of 59 she'll always need baby sitting. She is hard to describe. She is normal in so many ways yet her reading, writing and math suck. I really dont know if I'd ever trust her home alone for 8 hours +.

 

[dogluva]

Of course you raised him.. but if it was going to cost you money to send him (them) to daycare, putting your check in the negative. Wouldn't you have stayed home as well? That is what my situation is.. and good for your son btw to put more into my situation my dh is NOW in college (deans list at PSU) He really isn't home much.

I don't know, I love my job. I am a special education teacher and know I make a difference. Also, teaching jobs are scarce. We have many mothers working just to,pay daycare but don't want to give up their jobs. They know that their kids will be in school full time and they will then be making money again.

 

[dogluva]

my 12 yr old has an IQ of 59 she'll always need baby sitting. She is hard to describe. She is normal in so many ways yet her reading, writing and math suck. I really dont know if I'd ever trust her home alone for 8 hours +.

Okay, there are special circumstances. However, typical kids don't need daycare past a certain point.

 

[Colleen27]

I don't get this, kids grow up, eventually you won't have to run baths for them anymore. Some even get their licenses and drive themselves around! No plans ever to work?

Plans may change but at this point, no. We're content with the income I bring in without a job (mostly crafting, a little freelancing - not quite what part-time retail would bring in but pretty close), and I don't think the kids cease to benefit from a parent at home when they hit school age. In fact, if I could only be home for one block of time I wouldn't have chosen baby-hood - I'd have chosen that awkward phase of late middle/early high school when they're too old for most organized after school programs but too young and vulnerable to peer pressures to be counted on to entertain themselves in a positive manner when left to their own devices on a daily basis.

For the specifics of our situation as it is now and as we plan it to be in the future - two of our three in a private school that expects a great deal of parental involvement, one planning on a magnet high school program that would require we arrange our own transportation - it doesn't make sense for me to go back to full time work and (selfishly, I'll admit) I'd rather be home pursuing my own interests than out ringing groceries because it fits "mom hours". We may venture into business for ourselves again - DH had his own home improvement business until last year but just couldn't keep it going in the current economy, and I was his entire "office staff" - and I will likely do more freelancing and maybe expand into consignment or online sales with my sewing rather than just Christmas craft shows when I have more downtime to fill during the day, but juggling two full time employment schedules is just not something that DH & I are interested in doing. Coordinating the schedules we already have is hard enough without adding another set of demands to the mix.

 

[Colleen27]

I don't know, I love my job. I am a special education teacher and know I make a difference.

I'll be the first to admit I'd make different choices if I really felt a passion/calling for a particular line of work. I was in IT and enjoyed it, but it was just a job to me - something I was good at that earned a decent living, but not something that I miss or that I was conflicted about leaving behind.

 

[dogluva]

Plans may change but at this point, no. We're content with the income I bring in without a job (mostly crafting, a little freelancing - not quite what part-time retail would bring in but pretty close), and I don't think the kids cease to benefit from a parent at home when they hit school age. In fact, if I could only be home for one block of time I wouldn't have chosen baby-hood - I'd have chosen that awkward phase of late middle/early high school when they're too old for most organized after school programs but too young and vulnerable to peer pressures to be counted on to entertain themselves in a positive manner when left to their own devices on a daily basis.

For the specifics of our situation as it is now and as we plan it to be in the future - two of our three in a private school that expects a great deal of parental involvement, one planning on a magnet high school program that would require we arrange our own transportation - it doesn't make sense for me to go back to full time work and (selfishly, I'll admit) I'd rather be home pursuing my own interests than out ringing groceries because it fits "mom hours". We may venture into business for ourselves again - DH had his own home improvement business until last year but just couldn't keep it going in the current economy, and I was his entire "office staff" - and I will likely do more freelancing and maybe expand into consignment or online sales with my sewing rather than just Christmas craft shows when I have more downtime to fill during the day, but juggling two full time employment schedules is just not something that DH & I are interested in doing. Coordinating the schedules we already have is hard enough without adding another set of demands to the mix.

Well if you don't need to then don't. Sounds like you keep very busy. By the way, nothing wrong with ringing groceries. Any job is worthy when you have to pay the bills.

 

[fortwildernessishome]

I understand what you're saying here, but consider it from the other side... the spouse who stays in the workforce should understand that, when the two of them made the choice for one to stay home and one to work, the working spouse also made a choice.... to commit some of his/her future earning potential to supporting the nonworking spouse, in order to get the benefits of having a stay-at-home partner keeping the home fires burning.

Nobody put a gun to the working spouse's head, either. He/she should know that his/her spouse won't have the same earning potential after staying out of the workforce for 15 years.

But I do agree that lifetime alimony should be a rare thing. I'm actually surprised to hear that it's still awarded fairly often in some parts of the U.S.

AWESOME post!!! Totally agree!!!

 

[JoiseyMom]

No, it should not be abolished. It is needed in a lot of circumstances. That law in FL is horrible and will hurt so many people, especially women and kids.

I have been a SAHM for 12 years, and I have found that the kids need you more as they get older not younger. My youngest is 12 and my oldest will be 30 later this year. I have done both, work and SAH.

I know that I at my age I would never be able to make up for the 12 years off I have taken in my career and to match my DH's salary. And yes it was a joint decision for me to stay home.

 

[disykat]

DH and I both made the decision for me to take time off career. If anything, he was the one who felt more strongly. I know the salary schedule at my job, I know the retirement plan. I make 20K less each year than I would if I'd never taken time off. The hit I will take on my retirement will be very significant.

I think it's ridiculous that some people think I alone should take the financial hit if we were to divorce.

Honestly? I think it'd make DH look very bad in the eyes of our children if he, who makes significantly more than me anyway, didn't want to make sure I was financially secure.

I don't think alimony is always about some horrible person trying to bilk their ex out of money.

Obviously there are times when alimony can be unfair, that doesn't mean it's without merit in other situations. I really think things like alimony, custody, etc. should be on a case by case basis.