Severely need advice

And your mother-in-law?
Oh my mother in law lol. Forgot about that one. She’s a little out there. Very dramatic and wants lots of attention. She’ll drop something in the kitchen and full on scream bloody murder. Dh is much more like his dad than his mom. His dad is very laid back and not outspoken about things. Dh has 7 siblings and they are all extremely loud people. Dh is the exact opposite. He’s told me that’s because he never could get a word in as a child and chose to listen instead of be loud like the others. I’ve seen proof of this during holidays and get togethers. Dh’s parents do not drink any alcohol at all.
 
Okay @Hrhpd, it checks out.

Oh my mother in law lol. Forgot about that one. She’s a little out there. Very dramatic and wants lots of attention. She’ll drop something in the kitchen and full on scream bloody murder. Dh is much more like his dad than his mom. His dad is very laid back and not outspoken about things. Dh has 7 siblings and they are all extremely loud people. Dh is the exact opposite. He’s told me that’s because he never could get a word in as a child and chose to listen instead of be loud like the others. I’ve seen proof of this during holidays and get togethers. Dh’s parents do not drink any alcohol at all.
Thanks.
 
OP, in your original post you mentioned being so upset you have thought about leaving to stay with/live with your parents. If you have a REAL need where your safety or your babies safety is concerned, I am sure they would welcome (both) of you with open arms. If not you need rethink putting a needless strain on their marriage.

Yes having an adult child move back in and bring their child and child custody problems in to their home would cause a strain on your parents marriage. You need to think about everyone involved before you make a decision. Can you support your child without your parents help? If so I would not impose on them needlessly.

Understand just how much control you will be forced to give up if you leave and share custody in the future. It might make the marriage work ahead seem much more manageable when you think about the consequences of not doing it.

Every marriage has problems. There will be times one of you is “crying on the couch” it happens, especially if one of you is more emotional than the other.
As long as there is no abuse, illegal drugs, cheating, or illegal activity, you can work out your problems and addictions. Especially if both parties are determined to make it work.

If your safety is really at stake then YES by all means let your family know and let them help you! If not, rethink getting any other family members involved.
 
I’m confused
Your husband might be struggling with depression and/or alcoholism, with the possibility of other factors at play such as drugs or mental illness. He emotionally manipulates (he learned this somewhere). His behavior vacillates between affectionate and pouting. You describe him as being like a child. He describes himself as a pushover in both his personal and professional life. When his wife decided for him (or with him depending on the post) that he would stop drinking for the rest of his life, he agreed to it instead of standing up for himself and saying he didn’t want to. Instead of taking ownership of his own decisions, he hid alcohol and snuck around drinking behind your back. His wife forcibly sends him to bed when he has to work in the morning or she doesn’t like his behavior.

Emotionally, he is a child. He’s stunted. That typically happens when someone is not allowed to properly develop their emotional maturity, and the reason for that is often that the child had a controlling, manipulative, infantilizing parent. A parent who put their own emotions and desires above all else, creating an environment where the child had to focus all their energies into appeasing the lunatic in the house instead of tending to their own feelings or learning to stand up for themselves.

Upthread, someone suggested they were skeptical this was even true. I said I could confirm the veracity based on how you described your mother-in-law. Had you said your MIL was a lovely woman who respected boundaries and always put other people’s needs above her own, I would’ve known the whole thing was fabricated. Or, at least, that was the joke. His dysfunction comes from somewhere (his childhood) and it runs deep. Therapy is essential.
 
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Just a fun fact, I am a jackmormon (raised mormon, grew up in the church, mother is still mormon though no one else in my family is)

Members of the church are NOT saints and perfect because they don't drink alcohol, and in my experience a lot of them cope in much less healthy ways and do things just as, if not more destructive because they refuse alcohol.

I also saw a lot of people hiding their drinking. From spouses, children and church leadership because they wanted to drink but were afraid of the retribution of others. Banning things and unequivocally demonizing them has not worked, in my experience and ends up with people who have lying or deceptive complexes.

After awhile I had to leave that church because I found so many of the people I thought were my friends were lying about nearly their entire lives just to keep up appearances as the perfect LDS people. They would demean me for my transgressions, but it would always come out that they had skeletons in their closet they wouldn't confront.

I'm not saying being mormon is bad, or that mormons are bad, I am just saying - you can't say its the perfect way to live because there will always be the human element of choice and the fear of consequence. It rarely works for the majority of people, in my experience.

Reasonably healthy, able minded folks should be capable of controlling themselves regardless of the vice. If they can't, it has more to do with their mental and physical health than it has to do with being "weak willed" or not being good enough. People who feel beholden to a set of rules just because someone else wants to live their life a certain way are doomed to covet what they cannot have.
You hit the nail
 
Your DH is fundamentally dishonest and can't come clean to you, and that's way before he even approaches the issue of his alcoholism and trying to stop. Plus, if he does have depression, he is further poisoning himself because alcohol amplifies the depression.

Right now, before the baby is born, you have the most leverage. All of your future happiness rests on him leading a trustworthy life, and right now he can't give that to you.
 
There are many low cost therapists out there. Insurance also covers therapy and if you have the Medicaid equivalent in your state, research with the local Child Protective Services offices for referrals (many parents who have had their children taken away need to participate in counseling/therapy)
 
A solid marriage needs to be based on a solid foundation of mutual respect & trust. Right now, you feel that you can't trust your DH because he's basically been lying to you for...years, right? YEARS of lying & covering stuff up. You'd probably feel different if he had come to you months/years ago and said, "Honey, I think I have a bit of a problem and I need help in figuring it out."

THAT is why people are suggesting counseling. THAT is why people are recommending support groups. If you can't afford counseling, at least go to a support group for yourself. And then go to the local library and read a self help book geared towards loved ones who have to deal with family members with addiction problems.
 
Your husband is 100% an alcoholic. Anybody who hides bottles is hiding a serious problem.

My father was an alcoholic. He was a genius at convincing everyone that he didn't have a problem, until he got sloppy and we found all of his hiding places for bottles. He would drink half a beer then add whiskey to it trying to fool us into thinking he was just having a couple of beers. He would transform from a sweet man into a monster after just a couple of beers.

When I was little, he would drive me to the store, and we would end up at the corner bar. I sat alone at a table drinking a Shirley Temple while he would "belly up to the bar" and get drunk. Then he would drive me home drunk. I would try to "help" him by emptying all his hidden bottles and filling them with water. I grew to despise him when I would discover new hidden bottles filled with whiskey.

My sister is an alcoholic as a result of being a child of an alcoholic. She has lost EVERYTHING as a result because she is in denial. Her husband divorced her. Her kids won't speak to her anymore after she put them all through terrible pain. She spent six months in a coma, and when she got home, she resumed drinking. I finally had to detach from her in order to save myself.

Being a child and a sister of an alcoholic has nearly wrecked my life. For whatever reason, I am able to drink on special occasions and go for several months at a time without drinking. It's a miracle. I had to seek counseling multiple times to cope with the damage my father and sister caused. Al Anon saved my life. At 54, I finally am learning to be healthy and take care of myself.

Do you want this miserable life for your child?

Even if you choose to enable him and make excuses, you must consider your child's well-being. You are responsible for another life now.

He needs to go to rehab. It is time for an intervention. Seek professional help. Attend Al Anon meetings.

Save yourself. Save your child.
 
My frame of reference is having been an RN FIR 36 years caring for more alcoholics than I care to remember and having multiple family members who are alcoholics. I will be blunt.

Your husband is an alcoholic. Regardless of what his other issues are, he is also an alcoholic. He has lied to you, snuck around with his booze, been in a “state” where his behavior has been “fuzzy”.

You have a child coming. A child that deserves stability and not the instability of not knowing what Daddy is going to be like at any given moment. A child needs both parents to be dependable and predictable and if that’s not the case, the bad parent is a hindrance, not a help.

You’re making excuses for him and enabling the behavior, because you love him. Because you don’t want a failed marriage. Because you’ve invested a lot of years into your relationship.

Personally, I wouldn’t be living hundreds of miles away from my support system with a baby on the way. I’d be making arrangements to move back near my parents, get established there with a job and good prenatal care. You’re going to need help when this baby comes and this alcoholic that you’re married to is not going to step up and be there. You can’t force him to change until he’s ready. I wouldn’t waste my time with ultimatums. That just causes alcoholics to learn how to hide their problem better.

Formulate a plan for yourself and your child, tell him and go. You owe it to that unborn baby to give it a life without the uproar of an active alcoholic father.
 
Emotionally, he is a child. He’s stunted. That typically happens when someone is not allowed to properly develop their emotional maturity, and the reason for that is often that the child had a controlling, manipulative, infantilizing parent. A parent who put their own emotions and desires above all else, creating an environment where the child had to focus all their energies into appeasing the lunatic in the house instead of tending to their own feelings or learning to stand up for themselves.

This is a perfect example of where I've said all along in this thread how people are just making HUGE assumptions and judgments. You've never met this guy, we're hearing one side of what is likely a much more complex story, yet you can say you know that he is "a child", "stunted", wasn't allowed to develop emotional maturity because he had bad parents? Sorry, but IMO that's a tremendously large blind leap. Maybe it's accurate, but very possible it isn't.

OP, you really need to make sure you have the resources to help you and your husband try to navigate through these issues open and honestly, from all sides. If they can't be worked out, then perhaps the relationship isn't salvageable. You won't know until you (by you I mean both of you) try.
 
He is complaining about the cost of therapy and I told him our happiness is worth a lot more than money.

I was afraid of this as well 2 years ago when we needed to start taking my daughter to therapy because we could no longer help her with her anxiety. I called my insurance and emailed and called again to make sure everyone was telling me the same thing. I was told that when healthcare rules changed that it is mandatory for all insurances to cover therapy. My daughter has been going for almost 2 years now and we have only ever paid a co-pay for each visit. you should call your insurance to make sure though before going.

Therapy was also tough to do because my family and DH are against it. Really I could have used therapy when i was growing up to deal with my father (parents got a divorce when I was 8 weeks old) who is abusive towards women and an alcoholic and drug addict. My mom was always more of the person with tough love even with my anxiety. I do have to say though I think everyone's options have changed. It has done wonders for DD and I have seen lots of growth.

You need to do what it best for you and your husband. and if going to a therapist is not right, work on things together. If you feel like going to a therapist will help you, you can always go and maybe down the road your husband will too. We were lucky and we found a great therapist for DD right off the bat but I have heard from others that they have had to switch to find the right fit.

I hope everything works out for you.

One other thing, OP. Stop talking to your parents about the details of your marriage woes. It’s not appropriate. Save it for your therapist.

I disagree with this. When my DH and I were going though a rough patch I talked to my mom almost daily about how I was feeling and our issues. I needed someone to talk to and someone to just listen to me. DH and I did talk about everything but I did not talk to friends or other family members about it. DH hated it. He didn't want me to talk to anyone but I explained to him I need to talk to someone and my mom and I are very close. He understood to an extent. My mom never told me what to do. She just listened. DH and I worked though all of our issues and will be married for 15 years next month. Sometimes a parent is just the person you need to help you get through some of the roughest times. They are your supporter.
 
Whew I just got done reading through all of those posts. I’m gonna try to answer all of the questions as best as I can but I may miss a few. This is not a fake post and I’m not sure why someone would think it is. We are both in our mid 20s. I am not a first grade teacher lol (a little curious about that one). We live in the south but aren’t around drinking that often so the atmosphere isn’t necessarily a component. Being around my family is a component because they are all big drinkers but we will only see them around Christmas time.

Dh and I decided together when we went to college that we wouldn’t drink. I didn’t decide for us. I do wonder if he kind of just agreed to avoid confrontation though. He’s more introverted and doesn’t do great with confrontation. He has even admitted to being a pushover at home and at work and it is something he constantly works on.

I don’t think I ever once called Dh a drunk or even an alcoholic. Maybe some of my descriptions are exaggerated. I’m trying to post honestly but I know my judgement might get in the way when I post my feelings and side of things. I admit to having unhealthy views on alcohol and I do want to work on that. I WANT to be okay with Dh drinking. I just need to figure out a good way to do that. I don’t want him feeling like he has to hide it. I’m not sure I’ve ever actually seen him full on drunk before. He starts to slur and act annoying but I wouldn’t say that’s drunk. I would say that’s more tipsy. The big thing is really that he was hiding it. I’m hoping against everything that he can feel safe enough to be honest with me. I need to stop controlling what and how much he drinks. That isn’t my decision and never should’ve been.

When I said I found A LOT of cans and bottles that’s because he had stockpiled them over time. I’m talking like a year’s worth of time. That was at our old house before we moved.

Dh said the reason he doesn’t want to do couples therapy is because of the cost but also because he thinks each therapist would have a different opinion. I’m wondering if really he’s just nervous to talk in front of someone. I read online about doing couples therapy at home and doing skills training together. He was completely on board with this. I’m not sure if any of you have heard of this or know of any good resources. I’m very happy he’s willing to work on things even if it is at home. We both have to keep ourselves accountable though.

If I’ve missed anything please ask or let me know. This isn’t a one sided street and I’m very aware that Dh and I both have our things to work on. We’ve made lists before of things to work on and I think we just never kept ourselves accountable. We’ll go in spurts where we do great and then it slowly goes away. Finding a skills workshop or communication workshop would be beneficial and I’m thinking a good start.

Sounds like you have a good handle on the situation.
 
This is a perfect example of where I've said all along in this thread how people are just making HUGE assumptions and judgments. You've never met this guy, we're hearing one side of what is likely a much more complex story, yet you can say you know that he is "a child", "stunted", wasn't allowed to develop emotional maturity because he had bad parents? Sorry, but IMO that's a tremendously large blind leap. Maybe it's accurate, but very possible it isn't.
You may recall I was the first person on this thread after you to say I wasn’t comfortable branding this guy an alcoholic based on the information we had been given about his drinking. Rushing to judgement is not my style.

With everything the OP has told us about him and their relationship, I am very comfortable saying her husband lacks emotional maturity. If you know anything about toxic family dynamics then you know there are patterns to the dysfunction that result in certain personality traits among the family members. These patterns are so consistent that one does not have to guess at how the problems came to be, it’s the same story every time. I picked up on the classic RED FLAGS 🚩 early on and that is why I told the OP her husband’s issues ran far deeper than just the drinking. The OP didn’t have to tell me her MIL was an attention seeking loon who would “scream bloody murder” if she dropped something in the kitchen — I already knew.

I disagree with this. When my DH and I were going though a rough patch I talked to my mom almost daily about how I was feeling and our issues. I needed someone to talk to and someone to just listen to me. DH and I did talk about everything but I did not talk to friends or other family members about it. DH hated it. He didn't want me to talk to anyone but I explained to him I need to talk to someone and my mom and I are very close. He understood to an extent. My mom never told me what to do. She just listened. DH and I worked though all of our issues and will be married for 15 years next month. Sometimes a parent is just the person you need to help you get through some of the roughest times. They are your supporter.
So even though you knew your husband hated you putting his personal business out there to your family, you continued to do it? Wow.

The OP wants to work things out with her husband and stay in the marriage. Reading her posts, she isn’t even sure what the problems are. Her husband’s issues could range anywhere from addiction (alcohol) to mental health (depression) to medical (sleep issues). Her husband is entitled to a reasonable expectation of privacy regarding his health issues, be they physical or mental. His drinking and lying has broken the trust in their marriage and her going behind his back to talk about him to her parents about their personal issues is not going to help rebuild it. Calling her parents to say “Bob and I are separating, I need a place to stay” is one thing. Calling them to say “He got up to pee last night and did that weird thing again where he acts loopy and was talking incoherently....” is another.

A far more productive way to talk about the marriage would be to talk to a therapist — an objective third party professionally trained to help navigate couples through these issues.

If anyone cares to read more about why it’s a bad idea to discuss marital issues with relatives:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/divorce-busting/201005/dont-ask-dont-tell-your-family
 
Your husband might be struggling with depression and/or alcoholism, with the possibility of other factors at play such as drugs or mental illness. He emotionally manipulates (he learned this somewhere). His behavior vacillates between affectionate and pouting. You describe him as being like a child. He describes himself as a pushover in both his personal and professional life. When his wife decided for him (or with him depending on the post) that he would stop drinking for the rest of his life, he agreed to it instead of standing up for himself and saying he didn’t want to. Instead of taking ownership of his own decisions, he hid alcohol and snuck around drinking behind your back. His wife forcibly sends him to bed when he has to work in the morning or she doesn’t like his behavior.

Emotionally, he is a child. He’s stunted. That typically happens when someone is not allowed to properly develop their emotional maturity, and the reason for that is often that the child had a controlling, manipulative, infantilizing parent. A parent who put their own emotions and desires above all else, creating an environment where the child had to focus all their energies into appeasing the lunatic in the house instead of tending to their own feelings or learning to stand up for themselves.

Upthread, someone suggested they were skeptical this was even true. I said I could confirm the veracity based on how you described your mother-in-law. Had you said your MIL was a lovely woman who respected boundaries and always put other people’s needs above her own, I would’ve known the whole thing was fabricated. Or, at least, that was the joke. His dysfunction comes from somewhere (his childhood) and it runs deep. Therapy is essential.
My frame of reference is having been an RN FIR 36 years caring for more alcoholics than I care to remember and having multiple family members who are alcoholics. I will be blunt.

Your husband is an alcoholic. Regardless of what his other issues are, he is also an alcoholic. He has lied to you, snuck around with his booze, been in a “state” where his behavior has been “fuzzy”.

You have a child coming. A child that deserves stability and not the instability of not knowing what Daddy is going to be like at any given moment. A child needs both parents to be dependable and predictable and if that’s not the case, the bad parent is a hindrance, not a help.

You’re making excuses for him and enabling the behavior, because you love him. Because you don’t want a failed marriage. Because you’ve invested a lot of years into your relationship.

Personally, I wouldn’t be living hundreds of miles away from my support system with a baby on the way. I’d be making arrangements to move back near my parents, get established there with a job and good prenatal care. You’re going to need help when this baby comes and this alcoholic that you’re married to is not going to step up and be there. You can’t force him to change until he’s ready. I wouldn’t waste my time with ultimatums. That just causes alcoholics to learn how to hide their problem better.

Formulate a plan for yourself and your child, tell him and go. You owe it to that unborn baby to give it a life without the uproar of an active alcoholic father.

OP, I have to agree, for the most part, with these posts from above.
I see some important points/thoughts by both Traveler and Disney Doll that really seem to have some truth in basis.

I am not sure that leaving immediately, as in today, is my advice. (What would your DH's feeling be about the future custody of the child?)
But, in the best interests of your child, and yourself, ALL of these complex issues need addressed, by real medical and psychiatric professionals, immediately. IMHO, you need to make some major decisions, right away.
Be aware that your DH can and possibly will, with any legal guidance, request that you do not and can not take this child out of the state without his prior agreement. You do not seem to have a big support system there in your current State. (Maybe that is not correct, but you mention having moved and are far away from your family.)

Instead of being firm, and stating to your husband "THIS is what I NEED for this to work, for this to be okay, for us to be successful and happy..." There seems to be the ongoing off and on discussions, manipulations, finger pointing, compromises, etc...
That is not what is going to get you (your husband and child) where you need to be.

No matter what decisions or actions your husband follows, you should independently be dealing with YOU. The dynamic that you describe, with your need for a lot of very intimate control, and your husband being a pushover, is not a good situation, at all. I see that you are admitting this, to some degree.... But this might be something that needs to be addressed with some serious professional counseling. ( I will just throw this in... a child will not do well in a situation where they are raised by a micromanaging and overly controlling parent.... Just as the opposite, in your husband's case, he seems to have been raised in a large family, where he was barely a blip on the radar, and has lived under-the-radar, just as he is continuing to try to do with hiding his alcohol drinking.

I will say that, to me, my biggest concern is your child, and the fact that you WILL have to give up control and your child will be spending time with this man, whether he is an alcoholic, has other issues, etc... Whether or not he ever gets himself 'together'.

The fact that your DH seems to be more of the immature 'push-over', and you seem to have some control issues, makes me wonder if he would be a pushover when it regards child custody. (Maybe, maybe not???)
You are bringing a child into this... and that should always, always, always, be your biggest concern.
 
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The fact that he seems to be more of an immature 'push-over', and you seem to have control issues, makes me wonder if he would be a pushover when it regards child custody.
This is good insight, but I don’t think his mother would allow it. I imagine she would be a strong driving force behind the scenes pressuring to get as much time with the baby as she — er, I mean he :rolleyes: — could get.
 
Another excellent and very important point...
Remind me, though... Does the OP and her DH live near his parents?
I've been there with the inlaw issues!!!!!
 
















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